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September 19, 2006



is it hard?

Kerian Bunin

For a proponant of due process, you seem to be enjoying this.

Prokofy Neva

Point out to me any examples of lack of due process. People grief. There are witnesses. They violate the TOS. You abuse-report them -- repeatedly, over months. Finally, the Lindens finish the investigation. They ban some. Not all.

And I'm only one of many, many people abuse reporting.

Prokofy Neva

hard to do what, Baba? Hide out in SL and continue to grief and mastermind griefing projects like W-HAT?

No. You're proof of that!




"and I think elsewhere in the air above my sims (lots of extra prims of stuff I can't fly up to see, seems way up there)."

About land, objects, find the name that doesn't belong, hit return??

Jeremiah North

I don't know virtually any of the people mentioned, so can't really comment on how they acted, etc. I'll have to see if Linden Lab publishes anything official on what they did and why. I have to say that comparing internet vandals - at best - to the Nazis is more than a little over the top.

Prokofy Neva

>About land, objects, find the name that doesn't belong, hit return??

Um. Duh1 You would think! But it isn't showing. It's because it's temp on rez possibly? I see extra prims coming and going -- can't get a name. Also, I see extra prims also on my neighbour's land, and I obviously can't read their list.

Prokofy Neva

>I have to say that comparing internet vandals - at best - to the Nazis is more than a little over the top.

You are unable to reason by analogy. Why don't they teach that in schools anymore?

And Internet vandals draw from the same playbook as Nazis and Communists and other totalitarians. Of course they do. It's a question of scale and severity of course but it's the same principles at work.

Caux Cadeaux

"Within minutes of the town hall news, I was being griefed by one of their many regulars Caux Cadeaux, a fellow with a big ugly flying avatar showing no skin, only muscle and tissue like the Body Show cadavers. Caux stalked me in Ravenglass and said "Good morning mademoiselle" to harass me -- he continued to stalk me all around my rentals and was grief reported. He taunted me from Linden land -- using all the usual M.O.s of Voted-5."

Clearly greeting someone with "Bonjour Mademoiselle" is a hurtful and emotionally taxing gesture that could easily be considered harassment in any libel and or slander suit. For this I apologize and hope that we may still be on good terms for the sake our partnership.

But for the record I never approached Prokofy in Waterhead, much less did I say and or do anything to provoke her. I mean unless of course you consider standing silently in a public area an M.0. of Voted 5. Which in fact it is, but that is besides the point. WHEN WILL THIS REIGN OF TERROR FINALLY BE PUT TO AN END?!

Hernando Ricardo

Hey, shout outs to my bros and sistaz in da hood. Juz wanted 2 say keep on keepin on and dat yo pall Treqwan is keepin it fresh wit da w-hatterz.

da internet, it a vary serious thang.

Miller Rust

Yes, I publicly complaind about Irvin Maltz being banned, but I'm actually quite clueless about the whole griefing deal, and things that yourself and others have just told me tonight about what's happened in the (recent?) past. All I cared about was that Irvin was a great artist and he made some great avatars on second life, and we spoke about the creative process and such. I'm saddened about any alleged griefing activities or associations.

Some of the people you mentioned have been quite cruel to me for being a "furry" or whatever, so let me just point out that I never could have been part of the group even if I had somehow wanted to.

You mentiond the Communist Party - well, yeah, the bolsheviks (Marxist-Leninists) were horrible, and the Communist Party a terrible insitution that perverted a great idea (socialism, which originally was a quite libertarian concept) .. the irony here is that if people like myself who tangentally have a friend in this group get somehow implicated along with them, it's a little like so many anti-authoritarian leftists through the cold war who were also lumped in with the Bolsheviks! I was once interested in that stuff, but I changed my mind about it after asking many questions.

Let's at least follow up our suspicions of guilt (for anyone not even in such groups as voted v) with a fair investigation and a full presentation of the facts and evidence.

I wish things like homophobia, mysanthropy and racism (which are becoming so "hip" on the Internet it seems) could be gotten rid of simply by banning internet geeks who perpetuate them from this or that place. I'm afraid, however, it is the institutional mysanthropy, homophobia and racism in our society that is the real source, and unless those in power are truly confronted by the would-be victims some day, then the Internet geeks and Americans in general will continue to internalize anti-social, unethical behavior that they learn from their authority figures.

-Miller Rust

Hernando Ricardo

I'd argue that Libertarianism and Socialism are far apart Miller. I don't see socialists calling out for laissez faire markets and IMF spreading pro-capitalist ideology to developing countries.

Prokofy is entrenched by conspiracy, re-living the red scare and looking for any small indicator that her only means of communication with the outside world has become an abberation and defiled by "griefers."

If you observe how Prokofy crafts personas for people she disagrees with... "vicious Jordy Laffer," "cunning Verbena Pennyfeather," you can see the hysteria and frantic appeals to the reader to see it as she sees it.

The reality is, these personas are only questioning Prokofys' sanity, self-justification, and righteousness on the Internet, a place where dissent and disagreement are commonplace.

Prokofy is not looking for any justification as to why Irvin or why members of V5 have been banned, the justifications and labels have already been assigned preemptively and universally.

Balsamic Prunes

The quote in my profile is from a book. George R.R. Martin's A Game of Thrones if you're so inclined. Maybe you should try reading them instead of burning them.

Ben Kerensky

I'm so absolutely dissapointed that for someone so absolutely full of rage and fury for my group of friends, and for someone known to be a complete and total windbag incapable of making her points so monstrously overworded and convoluted, that this is the best you can possibly do for a gloating rant.


Adam Linden's profile: "MAH NMA SI ADM LIND3N!!!!1! WTF IM A LIASEON HERE 2 H3LP U!!!111!1! OMG LOL"

Prokofy Neva

Hey, there's Balsamic and Hernando, they missed some! But that's because making "art" isn't a TOS offense. And that's fine. It shouldn't be! But...taking "art" off your sim, now...that might be an offense, the jury is out on that one.

And that's because just stalking and harassing one tenant usually isn't enough to get a ban. Although wearing a suicide-bomber's outfit and a faux Islamic look might be offensive, it isn't a bannable offense, either.

I don't do rage or rants, and I don't do gloats. I'm not like you. I just report it and I write as I please by the light of my conscience. Do you have one?

Prokofy Neva

Actually, Miller, you're wrong about the ideology of socialism. It is crimiminal in intent and purpose, and that's why its outcome is always criminal.

Balsamic Prunes

Also, what will it take to get you off my case?

Miller Rust

I use the term "libertarian" in the classic sense it was used before people inspired by the likes of Ayn Rand altered it's meaning some decades after FDR's time (when leftism seemed to be "accepted" as all about government even by the leftists themselves). The word used to mean "anti-authoritarian socialist", believe it or not ("libertarian" was used interchangibly with the word "anarchist" before World War II, and still today in other countries besides the USA. In the US, we now use the terms "left libertarian" and "libertarian socialist" to clarify the meaning. If you want know more, read about Noam Chomsky, Mikhail Bakunin, Peter Kropotkin, Nestor Makhno, and the Spanish Civil War.)

Before 1917, the jury was still out over the issue of individualism having anything intrinsic to do with free market capitalism. There were, in fact, many socialists who were quite individualistic (the Industrial Workers of the World, and Mother Jones's whole reason d'etre was the idea of "stand up for yourself"), and their oppisition to capitalism was part of a general critique of authority (bosses, landlords, the state)... many onthe left (anarchists mostly) did not agree with Karl Marx's rejection of Max Stirner, Pierre Michel-Proudhon, and Mikhael Bakunin's fusion of individual liberty with socialism. (Bakunin said that liberty without socialism was privilage and injustice, and socialism without liberty was tyranny and despotism - how prophetic.)

It was Karl Marx, and later on Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Ho Chi Mihn, Pol Pot and the rest who convinced the world that the big battle wasnt between the bosses and the bossed, but was instead an abstract war between "society" and "the individual", or even moreabstractly, "altruism" vs. "selfishness". The conservatives on the right were more than happy to see that the marxist-leninists agreed with them when it came to how to pull the wool over the eyes of ordinary people who didn't need this shit.
( see:
as well as
and )

Politics is a war not only of land and ecomonics, but of words and ideas. People in de facto power claim that their system (no matter how cruel or unfair) is all about freedom, and the other side is all about tyranny and is degenerate. This is why we have people today calling themselevs "libertarian" who are homophobic, racist, shoot people who might accidentally wander onto their property (esp if they have the wrong skin color), and cheerfully vote for a president who supports the use of torture (regardless of what he might say to the contrary).

Prokofy Neva

It's hard to know whether to bother with somebody like Miller Rust who is educated on the Internet by half-baked Marxist sites and is barely past the college essay stage in political debate.

I didn't vote for Bush and fight against the use of torture overseas probably rather more effectively than you do, in RL. I don't own or advocate guns. I don't drive an SUV. I'm not homophobic or racist. Advocating that chronic, repeat, griefers who crash the grid and harass people all the time should be banned doesn't make me any of those things, don't be ridiculous.

You've chosen some bad company with these w-hats and vindictive gits like Irvin.


W-hat has little to do with v5, please stop mistaking the two.
v5 was created because w-hat would not put up with griefing.

Hernando Ricardo

That's clear Miller thanks for filling in the gaps. I associate Libertarian strictly as if an Objectivist is in the room and about to tell me why the individual "rights" or private property (Bourgeoisie owning the means of production) is best for the society, largely the proletariat, and at their expense.

A specter is haunting SecondLife, and it's the right of self expression and artistic merit. If people want to be Islamic avatars and follow the teachings of Sayyid Qutb, they have gone too far and are certainly out to grief and offend.

My avatar represents a divided world, a world where differences in theology create chasms and eventual bloodshed from both parties involved.

I don't think Prokofy's dichotomous thought process would be able to understand, when you're right, you're right, when you're wrong, you're wrong.

No grey areas. All absolutes.

"W-Hatters" are only about griefing and not contributing to SecondLife society, because Prokofy knows the absolute truth of the matter. Each and every member responsible regardless of role!

No, we express ourselves artistically and in different ways in SecondLife, and some people are incapable of appreciating artistic expression.

I feel we represent Hegelian dialectics of the Internet.

Prokofy Neva

>W-hat has little to do with v5, please stop mistaking the two.
v5 was created because w-hat would not put up with griefing.

Utter, unadulterated bullshit. W-HAT and Something Awful forms the substrate and the enabling climate for the various v5s to take place. The voted were voted into place by *something* eh? Duh.

Prokofy Neva

I don't view suicide bombing as art, no. I don't justify it, or apologize for it as you do, and I condemn emulating it or even satirize it as you do in SL.

As for "follow the teachings of Sayyid Qutb" -- that's pretty reprehensible stuff. Your claim to be a devotee is probably fake anyway, but if you are, you and your teachings are based on violence and extremism, and as such are to be condemned.

Anyway, I'm done talking to the W-HAT parade today.

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