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« Open Letter to Forseti Svarog | Main | Novotar: The Diver is Missing... »

May 12, 2007

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Ralewyn Grey

>> PNs which is W-hat aand v-5

Prokofy, Then PNs are from 4chan, not something awful. They crash baku all the time. They're not the same thing.

Prokofy Neva

They're related, and one of their scams is to get people to believe they aren't.

Cocoanut Koala

Wait wait wait wait wait.

The name of this group that you were in the IM with is, "Angel Fluffy Security State"? Or what?

And Angel Fluffy has access to a contact list that tells him which Lindens are online, when the rest of us can go hang?

coco

Ralewyn Grey

Please explain to me how it is that in the end, all griefers are W-HAT and are from Something Awful

Prokofy Neva

1. No, that's the headline of the blog, not the group -- I'm just saying Angel himself is after making a security state with himself in charge.

2. The name of the group is S.L.A.M. It stands for Second Life Administrator Managers and is a group of managers of rentals and clubs who post information about griefers as they make attacks in order to enable other people to decide whether to ban them, or to share corrective information. It works in live time, and I find it more useful than the Ban-Link concept because you can discuss on the spot what people's criteria is and why they're banning them.

Most of the list is stuff like "X avatar spawning replicating objects in Y sim" or "group of new alts with cage bombs over Z club" etc.

It's more practical and has less abuse IMHO than Ban-Link, though of course it is not free from it.

Recently, Angel Fluffy invaded it more and as I indicate, put a lot more chat, and a lot more hysteria, and a lot more driving and banging on people through fear-mongering to join up in Ban-Link "to be safe". It's pretty crappy. Most people aren't zealous like that. He accuses me of drama, but I'm merely criticizing the obvious:

o his effort to drag people into Ban-Link through fear-mongering
o his implication that he's at the center of some sort of SL-wide "watch" that can make security decisions
o his allusion to having special access to Lindens.

In the 18 months or more I've been on this list, I've never, ever seen anybody reference Lindens. That's the funny thing. Lindens are irrelevant most of the time as we all know. You deal with a grief attack yourself. Most of it is handled at the parcel level.

For grid-wide attacks, this list isn't one that has the most live-action stuff anyway, Concierge list and others is better for that.

3. In this transcript, you can see that a) Angel has collected Linden cards AND they've indicated when they are online to him so yes he's "special" and b) he's offered to fix up another already-connected Azure Islands officer to his special access list. Probably what he intended was to give him verbal authentication in IMS of when all these Lindens are online, but do it off-list, to "funnel" the connection to them.

I asked Lindens if they have a special access list. They denied it. One said they'd never heard of it.

But of course they do. There's a group of those Lindens who are involved in governance and abuse-reporting who meet frequently and talk frequently to a special group of large landowners and respond to them promptly.

When Livehelp worked, I had pretty good response time from it. I even had Lidnens answer on it. I had pretty prompt attention from Lindens, given that I have a large rentals busienss and something like a sim-wide attack of objects replicating or malicious scripts with particles -- these are things they come out for.

Since the disappearance of Live Help, and the online presence indicator of Lindens, I've had a huge plummet in the ability to get the Lindens to respond.

I finally got a "sim down" call looked at with the new "sim down" form. That's it.

But then, in my years in Second Life, filing literally probably a thousand or something abuse reports due to all the tenants, I've never seen them go on the police blotter.

Color me unimpressed

Wow... just wow. You leap straight to the conclusion that Angel Fluffy must have some sort of conspiratorial power... that he has some special ability to contact Lindens that no one else does. That is not the only potential conclusion to make from the text you quote. Reading the text, the other potential conclusion is that the guy has a lot of Lindens on his f-list. I have 6 myself. Does this make me a power hungry megalomaniac? Or does it mean, maybe, I have the ability to make friends in SL, to include with people who work for LL. You and those like you make icons of the Lindens. Make of them some sort celebrity. Some, however, treat them like people who happen to have a job at a place they frequent. They treat them like peers, not Gods or Devils. Perhaps that is the difference?

This piece comes off very much like a whine fest because you cannot get your own way, and a "sour grapes" post because someone else actually seems to have the "power" you yourself desire over the times you have yourself been griefed. You blame others for their attempts to protect while bemoaning your own victimization. You don't even have your facts right about the groups you mention.

Wow... so much for the impartiality of the press.

Color me unimpressed

Oh and BTW. "SLAM" used to be an acronym for "Second Life Alliance for Music". Did that group go belly up, and this new one get created with the same acronym? Or do you just not have your facts straignt on that either?

Prokofy Neva

You need an SL first and last name here Mr. Unaccountable Color me. Any subsequent post will be deleted.

Wow... just wow. You leap straight to the conclusion that Angel Fluffy must have some sort of conspiratorial power... that he has some special ability to contact Lindens that no one else does.

He's demonstrated that time and again -- and so have they. It's being persistent, aggressive -- and "uber helpful" that does it -- but apparently his oppressive agenda and their busy-ness have a match -- or they share his elitist and oppressive goals, hard to say, but that's wormed his way into LL sanctity is a given. He's been awarded lots of perks, including a "sticky," and a group with all Lindens in it where he is the sole officer. Nice work if you can get it!

>That is not the only potential conclusion to make from the text you quote. Reading the text, the other potential conclusion is that the guy has a lot of Lindens on his f-list. I have 6 myself. Does this make me a power hungry megalomaniac?

Might possibly, especially if they checked you off with the ability to track them while on line *shrugs*.

When people tell other people they can "get them in" and they need to reach them "off list" they more than imply -- they STATE -- that they have access that they feel is special and privileged and that they will dole it out. Duh.

>Or does it mean, maybe, I have the ability to make friends in SL, to include with people who work for LL.

Um, well, yeah, sure, uh...you can make "friends" with Lindens. They' only people". Except...they are very rationed resources. And they are very, very selective in their friendships. Many of them simply rebuff friendships these days. I had one put me on mute, even. They do not behave professionally; they behave like a cult of priests. That's why I expose that behaviour. It's wrong.

>You and those like you make icons of the Lindens. Make of them some sort celebrity. Some, however, treat them like people who happen to have a job at a place they frequent. They treat them like peers, not Gods or Devils. Perhaps that is the difference?

Uh...that's pretty fucking retarded. People who have the power to ban me from forums and confiscate all my property "for any reason or no reason' aren't "my peers". At best I'm eternally "their customer." And they make it far worse than any other company/customer relationship by their system of secret privileging , which rather than getting less so as the world gets bigger and their number has increased has worsened, as I've been able to illustrate again and again.

>This piece comes off very much like a whine fest because you cannot get your own way, and a "sour grapes" post because someone else actually seems to have the "power" you yourself desire over the times you have yourself been griefed.

Well, that's stupid. I just want equal access for all. I can understand they may even need to make a category like "Concierge" of people with more land, or even "Managers" or something of those with multiple sims or large venues like clubs or big projects that they need to give more attention to. But then make it a clearly-marked, open, demonstrable category that anyone who fits that criteria can enter.

Cocoanut has also repeatedly talked about their need merely to make a corporate account and be done with this secret feting, just make it an open set of criteria that those who meet, meet, then they get Linden cell phone numbers or whatever.

>You blame others for their attempts to protect while bemoaning your own victimization.

I'm not a victim. I work pretty hard at preventing griefing and I actually think because I put less stake in massive security systems, Ban-link, and aggressive war games disguised as security, I have less attacks. I believe in community policing and trying to look at cases individually against a set of criteria, not using mass ban plans. It may not work. But I try to get it to work and empower tenants to use ban, etc.

>You don't even have your facts right about the groups you mention.

I do in fact. It's one of their key M.O.s to pretend they have nothing to do with each other. In point of fact, they are intertwined and cover for each other and this is well documented.

>Wow... so much for the impartiality of the press.

This is a blog, but it's demonstrably more factural and accurate than your tendentious comments serving both Angel Fluffy, the Security State, and its enemies like the PNs.

Untameable Wildcat

Just thought you might like to know, there's a taskbar add on and also a widget that reads the friends list either off the server or off the webpage, and this works even if the friend hasn't clicked the box to tell people when they were online.

If you added me as a friend, then made sure I couldn't see when you were online in the viewer, I could still see when you were online, with either the taskbar tool or the widget. There's nothing sinister here. It sounds very much to me like he's got a lot of Lindens on his friends list, and when he wants to find which are online he starts the taskbar program.

You come over quite paranoid in your post, considering that there are other ways to determine if people on your friendslist are online than relying on the viewer (which often doesn't work properly anyway)

Prokofy Neva

Um, Untameable, nothing you are saying is relevant. Lindens who haven't given you a friendship card aren't going to show on a friend list, duh. Before, they showed on the *people* list, but that was before the much-asked-for "hide me online" was put in, and they all opted to hide themselves. Now they're not visible, so you can't call on them, and they've put a lot of layers of protection between themselves and everybody else -- because they are a scarce resource.

That's how a black market in them could develop, where some arrogant asshole like Angel Fluffy could claim in a sense to be peddling influence and access to them.

I'm not paranoid about these things as my status online is never hidden, and I never put myself on busy. I have customers and I want them to access me.

Untameable Wildcat

Sometimes I wonder if you actually bother to read my comments in full before you answer them.

I believe I did say they would have to be on his friends list, which would mean he would receive a card automatically, since you receive a card whenever you add another friend. I still have cards from people I've actually since removed from my active friends list.

I know the Lindens like to hide, and - like you - I resent it. Not having ways to contact them in an emergency does suck. But I do still have a friendship card from one, left over from my reporter days, and I can see whether that Linden is online or offline using my widget, so I DO know what I'm talking about.

There is nothing sinister or elitist about it and sooner or later they'll discover the loophole and close it - but right now it does still work, and again you're coming over as paranoid and rude now for just telling someone they don't know what they're talking about without investigating the facts.

Prokofy Neva

Uh, yes. I read your text. And what you're failing to grasp is that when you get someone's friendship card, they have the option to check off their visibility online to you -- or not. They can make a conscious decision to block you -- or not.

Some may not have bothered. Some have bothered. There is nothing "automatic" about adding friends. When you *request* someone to be a friend *they must click yes and consent to that friendship*.

You're still failing to grasp the sinister and elite problem here, because you're unwilling to be critical of Angel Fluffy, and just interested in being contrarian to me:

1) Angel Fluffy is implying here that he can take his carefully-collected list of Lindens that show them online, and exchange privately with other people, whom he selects on a discretionary basis, that status.

He's implying that because he has a big group of people he's captured literally, by requiring they have a group tag to access his "entertainment" and be subject to his aggressive security on his sims, that he is now a big-deal venue owner that requeres specialized Linden attention.

Throughout this discussion, he implies that he is now with the big boys, managing the alert system for the entire grid. I'm sure it imbues him with a special feeling of both power and victimhood (SL enables you to indulge in both!) to imagine that not only is he a big-deal venue operator but he is singled out for mass griefing and can prevent attacks from the entire grid!

Later, it came down to the fact that 3 sims were crashed. Ho-hum. Most of these people in SLAM deal with that kind of thing routinely without all the important-sounding messages and attention to their personas on the list, nor invocation of Lindens.

2) Read the damn text of what he says. He says he is able to get Nexxus to be able to access these Lindens through his intervention "contact me offlist and let me see about how I can get you access to this". They may not have agreed to it; they may have agreed (I suspect some are sympathetic to him given how Jean Linden, despite a slew of criticism, remained in a group with him where he is the sole officer, and above Lindens even in determining who gets to stay in the group and chat in the group).

2. I've investigated the facts, big time, and exposed here what's going on: Angel Fluffy thinks he can tell people that he has special access to the Lindens, and peddle that access by implying that outside the SLAM list, he will "fix somebody up" with a special access list. Duh. Read the text. We all see what's going on. Your imperviousness to this is beginning to become suspect.

Untameable Wildcat

>Uh, yes. I read your text. And what you're failing to grasp is that when you get someone's friendship card, they have the option to check off their visibility online to you -- or not. They can make a conscious decision to block you -- or not.

Okay, I'll have to repeat myself. Yes, you get someone's friendship card, and yes they can then check off the visibility option - but doing so does NOT fool the widget. Don't know why... maybe it doesn't have the same kind of checking system as the viewer - but someone can take the decision to block you, and you will still be able to see them with the widget.

I dunno, maybe Mr Fluffy just wants to direct people to where they can download the widget. That's certainly what someone did to me when I asked about seeing the online status of someone who has blocked me. In your "investigation... big time" did you find out if that's what he did, or did you just assume?

>We all see what's going on. Your imperviousness to this is beginning to become suspect.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Isn't it the tendency to refer to friends he might or might not have one thing you were complaining about from him?

I'm not impervious to anything. I happen to think, in the absence of contradictory evidence and having checked that the widget does indeed get around the viewer's method of blocking people whos cards you have, that he may well be using this method. Show me cause to think there's something more sinister, and I'll reconsider my position - but right now all you've done is rant and fail to read what I've written TWICE in one journal posting; so I have little evidence that your "investigation [of] the facts, big time" has been anywhere near thorough or conclusive.

Prokofy Neva

Okay, I'll have to repeat myself. Yes, you get someone's friendship card, and yes they can then check off the visibility option - but doing so does NOT fool the widget.

Um, no need. We got it the first time. But not everyone has the widget. And even if they show up on the widget, Lindens can still ignore you -- and *do* ignore you assidously I've found -- unless they decide you are worth it to them for all kinds of subjective and specious reasons for which there are no openly accessible criteria. It really is like one of those sultanates where you have to butter up the king's advisors with gifts and flattery.

>Don't know why... maybe it doesn't have the same kind of checking system as the viewer - but someone can take the decision to block you, and you will still be able to see them with the widget.

Not everyone will have this widget, not everyone can tab out of their game and go look at the web version of friends, which can be borked, or not borked, depending on that day's set of issues.

>I dunno, maybe Mr Fluffy just wants to direct people to where they can download the widget.

No, no, no and again NO. He wants to show off his access to Lindens, and peddle that influence with people by promising them an "in" which both makes them dependent on him, and makes him look cool. It's pathetic.

>That's certainly what someone did to me when I asked about seeing the online status of someone who has blocked me. In your "investigation... big time" did you find out if that's what he did, or did you just assume?

I don't go off on ridiculous, specious, stupid, assassine tangents like that based on contrarian literalist tekkie assholery, no.

I look at what he's doing which is plain on the face of it: he's trying to let everyone know he has special access to the Lindens, and can cut other people whom he clears in on this deal if they "behave" and suck up to him properly and if he thinks they are "worth it".

The whole system rots; Angel Fluffy can exist because the Lindens are in on it.

Untameable Wildcat

So do you not think that his boasts are posturing then? Do you really think he can DO anything? I've found a LOT of people posture and claim thing in Second Life that are nowhere near true. Knowing - or having the ear of - the Lindens is the SL equivalent of being what the pope is supposed to be, and able to talk to the worlds God(s). A lot of people claim to a greater or lesser degree to have the ear of some if not all of the Lindens.

I take that with the preverbial pinch of salt.

If other people want to follow Angel Fluffy - or anyone else, come to that - like he was some high up religious figure, then that's up to them. Personally I don't, I've seen the way the Lindens don't want to get involved, or even be spoken to. I always start from a doubting point of view if someone says they have input into Linden matters, and I suggest you do too.

Prokofy Neva

BTW, if "Untameable Wildcat" is NOT a name in the SL list, you may not post here. The rule here is that you MUST post with a certifiable SL name or RL name. That is to make you take accountability inworld for your actions, and to prevent you from sniping and trolling endlessly without linking it to a recognizable Second Life avatar. It's a community of reputation, and your constant carrying of water for Angel Fluffy, were it to be linked to a recognizable avatar in his group, will then become understandable. So link it -- justify it -- or be banned from here.

His boasts have developed into more than posturing, as I've seen him have an absolutely horrifying impact on the voting tools, with Jeska either foolishly -- or diabolically -- or both -- letting him take into his own hands the entire overhaul of the process, and the decision-making on what gets tagged for removal. This was an awfulness full people could grasp was even happening.

He was also given a "sticky" which was just a function of him sucking up to Lindens. I've watched him in meetings with Lindens, and behaves like an absolute model sycophant fanboy, smiley-facing them, making "helpful" interventions and offering to "help" -- and busy Lindens are easily flattered, and easily allow the tekkie aggressive type like that to take over.

Note that he formed a voting group with only himself as officer, with lots of Lindens in it, and without the ability to put notices in it -- except by him. The Lindens should never be allowing that kind of thing to happen with residents taking charge over others and even themselves.

You're just tuning into this, and merely wishing to be contrarian, or merely wishing to exonerate Angel Fluffy for your own political reasons, quite possibly, who knows. I suggest you dig deeper.

Untameable Wildcat

>BTW, if "Untameable Wildcat" is NOT a name in the SL list, you may not post here.

Yes, I know the rules. Funny how you complain about Angel Fluffy being a rules lawyer, then batten down on your own rules. I am Untameable Wildcat on Second Life, leader of SupportforHealing's Listening Ear group. You're quite welcome to look me up in Search -> People. I'm there. And yes, I DO happen to be a member of CaRP before you point to that, scoff knowledgeably and say "So THAT'S why she's a loyal lacky of Fluffy's". I've met Angel Fluffy on about enough occasions to mark on the fingers of one hand. I don't actually know the guy personally.

I can't comment on whatever relationship he might have with Jeska Linden because I have no knowledge about it. I also have absolutely zero interest in it. I'll say no more than that.

>You're just tuning into this, and merely wishing to be contrarian, or merely wishing to exonerate Angel Fluffy for your own political reasons, quite possibly, who knows.

You pointed out earlier "not everyone knows about the widget" - well, perhaps there is the answer. Perhaps he knows of it and uses it, just as I do. Again I just don't see anything sinister there. If I had a Linden Dollar for every time I heard somebody talk about how "the Lindens weren't listening to him/her about that" in a way that suggested Lindens ever DID listen to residents, well I'd be able to buy an island and pay tier on it for the next year! Dig deeper yourself. Get Konfabulator (or whatever the hell they call it these days) and the widget. Ask people to block you and see if you can still see their status on the widget. It's not that difficult. Maybe if you can see for yourself a bona fide method to do this you might be a little less suspicious.

Then again, maybe not.

Tang Lightcloud

I have it on good authority that Angel Fluffy is Phillip Linden's real life father. At least thats what he told me during our pillow talk the other night. Anyway - It seems Phillip owes dear old Dad some money, and until Phillip coughs up what he owes his Dad, Angel (his Dad) is barging in on his little gaming empire and setting up shop as Security State for the mere purpose of keeping an eye on his investment and of course some hot chicks he met online. And that my friend you can take to the bank as the gospel truth!

Kerian Bunin

I usually ban PN from baku on sight, though I doubt I can convince you that there is no collaboration between PN and W-Hat, which is fine I guess, as I think its important people form their own opinion. That aside I whole heartedly agree with your assertions in regard to Angel Fluffy. Thanks for an interesting read.

On a tangent, I think that linden contact list dohicky that was mentioned might be a script that checks the online status of linden avatar keys. We had something similar in baku for a time.

Prokofy Neva

I usually ban PN from baku on sight, though I doubt I can convince you that there is no collaboration between PN and W-Hat, which is fine I guess, as I think its important people form their own opinion. That aside I whole heartedly agree with your assertions in regard to Angel Fluffy. Thanks for an interesting read.

Um, nice try there champ, but you can never explain this salient fact: each time a v-5 or PN type makes a new alt -- say, your old pal H. G., he sits on Baku, and sends me force-ports, trying to get me to accept teleports? Now...if he is banned from Baku, gosh, how can that be?

And now you can see the location from which objects or notecards are sent. Sooooooo why are they sent from Baku, if um...they're all banned? It's just as bogus as the day as long.

>On a tangent, I think that linden contact list dohicky that was mentioned might be a script that checks the online status of linden avatar keys. We had something similar in baku for a time.

And...how did they get the Lindens to agree to top blocks with the avatar key pick-up script in them? Youth wants to know.

Kerian Bunin

I banned Hazim from Baku.

>your old pal H. G., he sits on Baku, and sends me force-ports, trying to get me to accept teleports?

That is naive. Why would of all places W-Hat try to TP to Baku. I mean your banned, it would incriminate ourselves. Its nothing more than PN pushing buttons to try to get you to write about them, while using it as a method to draw us into this.

As for the avatar key lookup script. I don't think it requires any special hook ups from the lindens. If you are interested, I can look into it for you and try hunting down the source for the script if you would like.

Maria casinni

I've been a former hostess within the BDSM "Empire" within question.
Angel fluffy is a fair and honest person, he gets to the truth and tells the truth to anyone who speaks to him.

All of the Hype surrounding this subject has whiped out all the real in world news, and there are other roleplay sites, BDSM groups and other such areas within the game of secondlife.

If capture roleplay horrifys you with a group of 1000plus members.

Perpahs your reporters would like to turn their attention to roleplay sites such as The City Of Lost Angels boasting a group of 1318 members.

Or even island sims on sl like IceDragons Playpen, that still supports SL Gambling and has over 2,000 members in it's compliment of groupers.

Not to mention your own reporters being affiliated with such groups as DreamLand who not only support gambling but encourage camping with the new animated camping systems.

Just suggesting there are more in sl then just capture roleplay.

To head this off news of the grid reports and updates from the linden blog cut down into manageble chunks would be nice.

I think aslong as Angel Fluffy is abiding by SL rules and law and is helping SL improve it's security against secondlife griefers we should take away the branding iron ((no pun intended)) and let him help.

Prokofy Neva

Angel Fluffy is a public menace.

I realize this is a funny new BDSM meme that I've already had 2 people today harass me with -- this concept that I am somehow related to Dreamland -- I'm not, I merely rent some space there like thousands of other people and have zero influence on their policies.

And the meme that somehow casinos have been made illegal. They haven't. Their promotion and advertising has been made illegal.

Is gambling itself illegal? I don't know. I don't have any casinos. I used to have some casino objects, but they seemed to me to be the subject of hacks/exploits a few times, and also just a place where newbies wasted money on pouring from the empty to the void, so I took them down. If people are going to spend money on my propety, I'd rather they spend it buying goods or services from other avatars and sustain an economy, not drain it into casino coffers for me -- that don't add significantly for me anyway.

1,000 people signing up for simulated rape -- simulation of a crime -- is disturbing.

2,000 people signing up for gambling which while regulated, is legal, is not disturbing.

Deal with it.

I'm also not understanding here the concept of "my own reporters". This is a blog, where only I write. The Herald is a paper with lots of reporters. Which ones are supporting camp chair animations? I don't know of any. I don't allow camping of any sort except the wilderness tent kind on my lands. So what *are* you talking about?

Furthemore, camping isn't illegal, either, as much as we dislike it, and unlawful theft through bots is something I'd condemn, and have written about for the Herald.

maria cassini

actually gambling in sl is prohibited because lindenlabs is based in the usa where they have made gambling online illegal. there for camping chairs and such systems that promote gambling is an act that is frowned upon in secondlife.

Prokofy Neva

The currency in SL has no intrinsic value. Gambling in SL with this game currency is not illegal. Cashing it out and putting it on your SL account to pay tier is likely not illegal either. It would be up to some gambling commission to determine whether this income was illegal. I know of no such determination yet.

I don't think you're the one to determine it, however, that's a safe bet.

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