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« 'Not Acting on Behalf of Linden Lab' | Main | "Your Ideas Are Priceless" »

July 05, 2007

Comments

Erbo Evans

Now you're getting me all worried about Danielle...she's one of the "radio DJs" who are supposed to be doing a set at SLCC. How is all this going to affect her? Should I be advising her to cut her losses and run away? Same goes for Chelle Moore, another friend of mine.

And maybe it's a *good* thing that I can't afford to attend the conference this time around.

moo Money

Now, now Prok. Am I a FIC groupie or FIC 2.0? Make up your mind!

As for SLI not being represented, I'm already building an entire track for SLCC that's been fairly drama free. I figured if I applied to be on the journalism panel, I'd be taking away from other organizations that wanted to be on it. Until we brought on Amalthea Blanc last week, I was the only SLI member going. It was already too late to get her a spot.

Lynette Radio

Like my mom always said, if you don't like it....don't go. And try to do it better yourself. If everyone with a bad opinion STFU and directed their energy into something positive, the world - both of them - would be a hell of a lot better.

Prokofy Neva

Lynette, you're really out of touch on this one. Press on all the links about the live musicians, and get *in* touch please, and think about it.

Prokofy Neva

Now, now Prok. Am I a FIC groupie or FIC 2.0? Make up your mind!

Uh, whatever you are, you're a member of this train-wreck-in-the-making, so ask yourself whether you really need to go on being associated with it.

Erbo, read all the links to the musicians and bloggers and people of some influence who have nothing to do with me, whom I don't even know, and draw your own conclusions.

Prokofy Neva

Add DJ Doubledown Tandino to the list of people who is stepping down from his role at SLCC and protesting the contract:

http://djdoubledown.blogspot.com/2007/07/slcc-phreak-radio-and-contract-that-may.html

EnCore Mayne

here's a great debate among sl's live music artists, djs, lawyers, fu principals, and all assorted entities reeling from the "contractual" nature regarding the artists' presence at the slcc.

http://blogs.talksecondlife.com/slimwarrior/2007/07/02/contract-ha-dont-sign-it/

i especially like jennyfur's first comment: "... back the fuck off Nethermind Bliss on this one ALL OF YOU."

i didn't think it had reached that level of angst myself. seemed pretty much question and answer. you know, free speech. what do i know. go figure.

Lynette Radio

I have read through all the links. I've read much more than the links you put in your blog. And you know what, more important than that, I TALK to people. You know, have conversations with them, not just pull out random quotes from the 'net and construe that as fact, or at least the facts that I want to see.

Go to SLCC if you want a weekend of meeting SL friends in RL, making new SL/RL friends, and ***HAVING A GOOD TIME***. If someone wants to go to cause trouble, tag along people babbling nonsense, and generally not being a decent human being, they I say stay home. It's not worth their money, and everyone else's aggravation.

I *KNOW* some of the musicians personally that were interested in playing. No one said anyone has to speak or play live music there, it's not a requirement that anyone pay to attend SLCC. Everyone is acting like just because you are a member of SL, somehow you have an unfettered privilege to show up at SLCC.

I've seen the music contract, and if someone doesn't agree, then don't play SLCC. How hard is that? Same goes with the speakers, I think they should be held to the same standards. If they don't agree, then don't speak. Simple as that. No one is getting paid to speak or perform.

As far as every genre of community must be represented, well, SHOW UP AND REPRESENT! Who said it has to be 'official'? Show up, arrange to meet other friends, and have a good time.

Just for the hell of it, give the New Yorker Hotel a call and see about setting up a conference for 600 people, with live music and a party. I have personal experience with this hotel in particular, that's why I bring it up. You will be presented with a binder of legal stipulations and city ordinances and codes that must be followed. Do you think that hundreds of people can just show up at a hotel and throw a big-ass party with no accountability or responsible party? There is a ton of work that takes place behind the scenes so people can just show up, have a good time, and leave with new friends and memories. Or, in some people's cases, show up, cause problems, take pictures, and blog about it.

I really don't understand most days why you get all worked up about half this stuff. I rarely see you contribute anything positive to any topic you touch. At the end of the day, when you log off for the night, do you feel good about the contributions you have made to your life, and Second Life? Do you not realize that the people you repeatedly bash and slander have LIVES outside Second Life? You may live and breath all this garbage, but a good chunk of the rest of us have families, careers, responsibilities, and hobbies outside of this.

Prokofy Neva

Lynette, I really think you need to catch up with ALL the comments on Slim Warrior's blog:
http://blogs.talksecondlife.com/slimwarrior/2007/07/02/contract-ha-dont-sign-it/

It's really quite worrisome. And you as a podcaster and someone working in the metaverse industry shouldnt' be supporting this hijack. IT's wrong.

Guess what, I've organized LOADS of conferences and had to deal with EXACTLY these issues. And you can always shop around to find better sets of rules and you can ALWAYS be creative in trying to find a workable solution. That's not being done here!

I'm making a very important positive contribution to SL by fighting for the freedom of the metaverse.

I have RL jobs, a family, and things I do that you have NO CLUE about, Lynette, so you're completely out of line here.

It's simply vital for the freedom of this media and this space of virtual worlds that people really fight hard for these freedoms and liberties and not give them away to thugs, and Lindesidents using the power of office to overthrow and control the community.

I am absolutely proud of, happy with, and completely confident in, everything I write. I'm sorry, but regardless of whether they have "lives and families" like we all do, the people I "bash" -- i.e. criticise -- are people who are public figures, playing public roles, and trying to CONTROL OTHER PEOPLE.

My God, Lynette, try to have a little more consideration for YOUR OWN freedom! I'm sure you didn't sign away your own presentation at Podcamp NYC to the organizers of Podcamp NYC did you???

I hardly think you can apply some of these notions you have to THIS venue, whatever you wish to come up from. It's Central Park, not my corporation's company picnic. Start figuring out the difference, Lynette.

Prokofy Neva

>I *KNOW* some of the musicians personally that were interested in playing. No one said anyone has to speak or play live music there, it's not a requirement that anyone pay to attend SLCC. Everyone is acting like just because you are a member of SL, somehow you have an unfettered privilege to show up at SLCC.

No, you do have the right -- and it's not a privilege. It's not a country club. It's an open public space and community in the broadest sense.

I know some of the musicians too. And musicians DO have to pay airfare and hotels -- I think only the conference fee itself is waived or reduced..

Prokofy Neva

>back the fuck off Nethermind Bliss on this one ALL OF YOU."

Yeah, I saw that, and linked this discussion here in my piece above when I mentioned the Live Musicians upset about this.

Always the lady, that Jennyfur, eh?

No, she needs to back the fuck off, and Nethermind and Taco and their Linden -- Crow Valen and Jeska -- need to back the fuck off. Seriously.

I do hope people stand up to them. It's sad to watch, really. It's like the Spanish Civil War.

Lynette Radio

See that's the funny thing, I can defend what I consider my own freedom. I don't need you to help me by your version of "fighting for the freedom of the metaverse". The metaverse includes me, and you do not speak for me, or anyone else but yourself. That's where you are severely disillusioned, that you actually represent anyone other than yourself. Stop playing the martyr already.

Maybe it's because you and are are from different generations, and I see things differently. Well, I know we see things differently. You seem to think everyone and everything is out to get you personally. You are not that important, really. You are more than welcome to your opinion, as am I. It's when the line is crossed and accusations are made of illegal proceedings (like asking for an audit of the sponsorship fundings) that I wonder where your motivation lies.

And as a matter of fact, my PodCamp NYC talk (as well as the one I plan on doing at PodCamp Phily and the New Media Expo) are for use for the event organizers. My choice. And I do get paid to speak, but choose to do so for free at these venues.

I'm going to spend time with my family now, not harp on whatever rebuttal you may conjure up. Nothing anyone ever says is going to change your mind, but I'm really tired of your babbling to see yourself in print.

Prokofy Neva

If you think fighting for freedom means propping up the ridiculously sullent, mediocre, and incompetent Jennyfur Peregrine and her drunken frat-boy hubby FlipperPA Peregrine, I leave you to them!

I think this thread says it all:
http://blogs.talksecondlife.com/slimwarrior/2007/07/02/contract-ha-dont-sign-it/

I don't have to say a thing, and you can argue all you like, but argue with real live musicians, DJs, business people, etc. who are even more upset about this than I am!

It was your CHOICE to make your talk available for the organizers? But...the musicians and speakers at THIS event do NOT get a choice!

Lynette, you will see you are on the wrong side of this one in due time, and then I'd appreciate you admitting it : )

A lot of what you're posting here is just spiteful spewing of the sort that people spout when in fact they know deep down inside they're wrong but not ready to admit it yet.

>It's when the line is crossed and accusations are made of illegal proceedings (like asking for an audit of the sponsorship fundings) that I wonder where your motivation lies.

I think it's not about any accusation of illegality, it's about asking for an audit to see what they aRE doing with all this sponsorship money, that they can't pay for live musicians, for example, or give them more of a break than they are giving them. Just basic questions like that.

My motivation is very simple: I've been following the careers of these people for 3 years, and after finding out that they were bent on blocking, restricting, commandeering, and hijacking content, events, people, and the economy of SL, I have found it justified to expose them to as much criticism and publicity as I can muster.

I have no doubt that nature will take its course with these people though, because oppressive little cabals like this NEVER last long.

Doubledown Tandino

every time I see "FIC"
I always say in my head:
Fecal in Colon

Thank you for commenting in my blog about my SLCC decision.
http://djdoubledown.blogspot.com/2007/07/slcc-phreak-radio-and-contract-that-may.html

Cocoanut Koala

EnCore, you don't know the half of it! That was MILD for Jennyfur. RESTRAINED. I've been on the receiving end of very scatological and profane cursings-out from her for daring to criticize the SLCC at all.

And Prok, you have this part about the ingrates all wrong! It's not musicians who are being mistreated here, while others are ungrateful it's vice-versa, according to Jennyfur, and I quote:

"I’m sorry we have taken on this thankless job and have to sacrifice our dignity to a bunch of rotten ingrates time and time again."

(Not just ingrates; ROTTEN ingrates.)

What kills me about this is these organizations keep saying one shouldn't talk about any of it on blogs. It's is just like when I was criticizing the Electric Sheep Company for their spybot. They chastised me for not doing all it in IM or something, and abhored having to talk about it in forums to residents.

You simply weren't supposed to discuss these things out loud; that's tantamount to "pitchforks". Same thing here - lots of that old, "We'll listen to you and be perfectly reasonable, as long as you keep it private."

Shhhhhhhhh . . .

They really, REALLY don't want stuff to get out.

Well, that didn't fly on that musician's blog I just finished reading. One person pointed out that it hadn't been for the public discussion, things would have been left at, "If you musicians don't like it, you're free to resign" (and eat your plane fare and other losses).

Anyway, the contract they were supposed to sign was ridiculous.

And offering it at the last minute, after they had already paid air fares, etc., was unbelievable.

I assume they will come up with something more acceptable, but they'd better hurry up with it.

coco

SparkyC

This topic is interesting, and I didn't know much about the issues for the musicians. Thank you!

But, I think there are some good parts of the conference you might be missing. The education track, like last year, did an academic call for proposals and had a double-blind review process. Jeremy and Daniel are leading the way at the conference and it may be really good! They brought on Desi Stockton from the international best proactices conference to handle a mirrored program in SL.

While I don't know if I will get to dance at SLCC, I am looking forward to the education part of the conference.

Nina Andrews

Would this not all be solved if there was a clause detailing that the music can't be used out with of context of the SLCC?

That means the musicians benefit from the exposure, the SLCC are able to release promotion material about the event without gaping copyright holes and the musicians need not worry about switching on the radio and hearing their song used to advertise soda without their say so.

Mairi Bikcin

What I find most remarkable on this is that, even though PhreaK Radio wants all these rights to musician's music and performances, they sure aren't above stealing other people's work in order to get ahead. I include a snippet from an e-mail I got, when applying to be a DJ for PhreaK.


"""""New DJ Tutorial

Welcome to PhreaK RadiO. This document will help and enable you to get up and running, and more importantly, having fun!

Once you have received the SAM2 software, continue to the next step - Install first SAM

There is a registration key that is required to authorize the software. ****Consult your nearest management personnel to get one. :)***** """""


The emphasis is mine. For those none in the know, that is "Call us up to get the crack for a $400 piece of software".

Solar Legion

This is already being worked on. The musicians and Management are working on the contract and have been for a while now.

Mairi, all things considered not everyone has the cash to dish out to get such a grand bit of software. I myself use the SAM encoder plug-in for winamp along with a key that was rather graciously purchased for me by a close friend of mine that DJs in Second Life and who lives in the same town as me. Were it not for him I'd have been using a serial number from one of many online databases, simply because I cannot afford a piece of DJ software - even if it is just a plug in - that doesn't cause serious issues and cut out constantly.

Mairi Bikcin

Solar Legion:

Can't afford it, Don't use it. That simple. Someone else put in the money to create, market, write, and so on, that bit of software. You pirate it, you steal it. There are plenty of free programs out there that let you connect to a *Cast server and do your DJ thing. PhreaK however, is having it's "employees" use pirated software for it's own gain.

This wasn't for the simple DSP plug-in, by the by. Oh no. This was for the full DJ suite. Look up the website and find it if you must.

Solar Legion

Mairi how many clubs have you been to in Second Life and applied for? I know quite a few that do that.

That aside, yep - you you really should pay for a program you want to use. However the mentality of telling someone to use an inferior product is almost as bad. I will be even more blunt and admit that in some cases I will use a crack or serial number to unlock and test out a product before actually buying the bloody thing.

for me, shelling out $400 on a program and finding out after the fact that it isn't what I really needed or was looking for is a waste of money. try it out in full, if I like it, I'll actually buy it. If not it gets uninstalled and trashed.

That's just me - at least I'll pay for it if I like it.

Mairi Bikcin

Solar:

In a past life, I DJed and worked for many a big name club. i was around when parcel streaming came into SL.

As for the sampling/testing argument, most companys address that with demos..been awhile since I messed with a SAM demo, but I think it's a 14 day totally unlocked try it download. To advocate "crack it now!" from PhreaK is morally repugnant.

Solar Legion

Mairi I'm not advocating anything at all and I'm well aware that SAM has a 14 day trial. tried it and the full program wasn't for me. I was speaking of software in general.

Jorus Xi

We've already addressed Mairi's comments about the SAM broadcaster thing :)

We're requiring all DJ's to provide their own software at their own discretion now. If they buy it, kudo's, if they steal it "It be on their heads"

It was my big push a couple of months back to clean things the hell up just in case something like this came up.

Now if a DJ comes along without his own software we point him to winamp and the free plugin for streaming their, or to the spacial audio website. That is ALL.

I forsaw a headache like this and deflected it.

Spacial audio also fucked up with a trial version of SAM 3 they released that had no trial period and just played a spacial audio ad every once in a blue moon... and you could move the ad out of rotation, which led to it being essentially an unlocked full version. Thats the one that I understand is floating around the SL dj community the most.

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