Linden Roads

You know, I find it just about impossible to deal with Chadrick Linden. Perhaps they're mandated to be secretive and distractive, but he makes it a fine art. Each time I raise Ban-Link, and the Lindens essentially GOM-ing the Ban-Link, he flies into hurt, pouting, petulant mode and tells me I'm telling lies about the Lab. He can get away with this crap by being literalist and tekkie about what's happening -- no, technically, the Lindens aren't physically purchasing/co-opting Ban-Link coded by Travis Lambert and Myra Pixel. But...they are taking the *functionality* of Ban-Link and planning it for the client.

I don't know the mechanism for how they do it. Currently, Ban-Link runs on a script with an outside server. I can't imagine the Lindens will do that..but who the hell knows? Chadrick stated very explicitly: Governor Linden will have a ban list. And people can add it to theirs if they wish. Now, how do they do that? Right-click on the ground and press a button that says "add to my ban list"? I have no idea. Getting parcel data in a command and then laying it into another parcel isn't that much of a walk at the beach, or we wouldn't have the gangster barons clamouring for SVC#244 and trying to get the Lindens to throw the platform once again.

If Linden Lab is planning a shareable ban list function -- then, I'm sorry, that's Ban-Link. It's ilke saying, oh gosh, the Konica copier isn't a copier like the Xerox copier, it's only a duplicator. I'm seriously, do they honestly think we are retarded?! What's exasperating about this shit is that we can't get them to see the huge gaping flaw in this system that will make the world more miserable than it is -- that everyone will grab every list, and there will be no appeal or recourse.

I actually thought up a way to automatize the appeal system, through a rating system, that knocked down points on lists that led to people unbanning other avatars. I did an interesting thing and read my record at Ban-Link and to my surprise, there are 12 people, 11 of whom I've never heard of, who have unbanned me and stated quite eloquently that these systems should never be banned over unfavourable blog posts or critical journalists. FlipperPAY is still fulminating about how 2 years ago, in Indigo, I allegedly "disturbed a guest" -- by which I guess he means I challenged whoever else was behaving like a controlling asshole at the SLCC orgkomitet meeting (probably the very last meeting inworld, since they decided to get away from any public oversight).

And what's MORE than annoying with these nits is they didn't understand my plan, though it was clearly stated, so let's spell it out again, shall we?

1. My concept of selling Linden roads and creating rented ad space on the roadsides is MY IDEA not something I'm claiming the Lindens are going to do -- not at all.
2. I love Linden roads and this is my concept for SAVING them, not introducing a world of red ban lines and crap.
3. Because...LISTEN CAREFULLY NOW AS I SAID IT ONCE ALREADY BUT YOU DIDN'T GET IT: I'm proposing auctioning the land as NO BUILD. Duh. That way, the Linden road stays on them; and people do NOT get to crap them up or fill up the space. They merely get most of the prims, except for the roads.
4. This could then induce the Lindens to pour roads on new sims where they do not currently do this, if they know they can auction them and have "no build" to keep the easements, but still get the tier off them.
5. An additional plan would be to have 48 or 64 or whatever 16 m2 ad spaces, but to regulate the whole mess. That only the Lindens could rent roadside ad space through an automatic timed device that also took money; that all other 16ms would be declared illegal and removed -- full stop. In fact, it would no longer be possible to sell 16 m2 except for $0.

It's so frustrating when half these meetings go toward people fumbling and fuming over misunderstanding a simple concept, that was stated. It's people like Wyn who screw it up, by assuming I'm going to be an evil rapacious capitalist and wish to sell off government infrastructure. I'm trying to figure out a way for LL to a) raise revenue to have as compensation for mainlanders when their land is devalued by the IPO/liquidity event and b) have them put roads and waterways back in to sims again, which they've stopped doing because they can't eat the tier anymore.

Jumpman Lane: do ya drop the hammer on that sort of thin or just toss it
Khamon Fate: yes it would
Iridium Linden pings the Metrics Lindens.
Iridium Linden: Welcome, Prokofy.
Wyn Galbraith just came from Meta.
Iridium Linden: Ah, nice.
Chadrick Linden: HI Prok
Iridium Linden: Meta is amazing.
Wyn Galbraith loves Meta.
You: Hi I have a great question and great idea
Khamon Fate: monocle ha ha
Iridium Linden: Shoot, Prokofy.
Khamon Fate: i get lost at meta's, it's all too big for my brain
Iridium Linden: lol, Khamon.
You: ok you know that ban-link thing right?
Khamon Fate: ipo
Khamon Fate: what ipo?
You: if you plug my name into it, I can give you my number so you can see
Khamon Fate: hey
Khamon Fate: i'll buy
You: you will find amazingly that 12 participants unbanned me after FlipperPAY banned me
Jumpman Lane: lol
You: and they all explain it was misuse of the concept
Iridium Linden: Interesting.
You: I'm reading the fine print in the LL compensation offer for when they IPO and devalue our sims
You: so far so good
You: BUT
Iridium Linden: What do you make of that, Prokofy?
Khamon Fate: FlipperPAY ha ha ha
Khamon Fate: you so funny
You: that doesn't create any "distrust" in that list
You: there is no mechanism to display that distrust you all imagine will automagically happen
You: so my proposal is to have percentage points drop on the trust-o-meter
You: each time someone's ban is unbanned
Laetizia Coronet: automagically - I'll remember that one :)
You: or there's an appeal that is successfully leading to an unban
Khamon Fate: if i'm gonna use a global ban list, i want it to have some timed rotation so people don't get hung on it forever
You: and so a crappy list like Indigo or Phreak Radio or whatever would get like a 77 percent rating just by having put me on
You: and like it could be colour coded
Wyn Galbraith: I'll use the global ban list. Will save a lot of time.
You: now, you say, couldn't this be gamed by too many appeals/
You: but the owners are actually very thoughtfully reviewing this
Khamon Fate: if i benefit from many people adding, there needs to be some counterbalance to that or i get bogged down with loads of people i've never even heard of
You: that won't scale
You: but at this point it's possible
Iridium Linden: Interesting.
Chadrick Linden: prok, you are forgetting a core function of the banlists. White list override the banlist. anyone can add that person back on if needed.
You: you can't invoke this concept of bad lists leading to non-use if there is no *display* of the badness leading to non-use
You: no I didn't forget that
You: but that's just it
You: if you see that X has 182 bans that were undone as frivolous
You: that should be SHOWING somewhere
Wyn Galbraith: Exactly, thanks Chadrick.
Khamon Fate: whitelists override the shared list, or just your land?
You: right now people can know that only because I publicize my particular unban
You: right Khamon
You: in fact, what Travis has now, is no appeals system!
You: he used to have one, which is how I got the 12 unbans
You: now he just says "if you are banned, go complain politely to the sim owner"
Iridium Linden: Have you spoken to him about this, Prokofy?
You: well that sucks
Khamon Fate: right which right globally or locally?
You: Iridium, we've debated him until the cows come home
Iridium Linden: kk
You: he's very stubborn,and he has YOU LINDENS backing him reciting the mantra of "trust lists"
You: there simply has to be an appeals system
You: and to scale it, there should be automatic loss of points for unbans
Khamon Fate: are the cows filing an IPO as well?
You: appeals leading to unbans
Laetizia Coronet: I hate to say this - but I agree
Khamon Fate: i'll buy them too
Iridium Linden: Hi, Tree.
Iridium Linden listens.
lufpleh Obstreperous: agreee you have to have appeals
Tree Kyomoon: hey iridium
Laetizia Coronet: hi Tree
You: well I want Meta to sell the Governor Linden roads and sell ad space too to raise the compensation package for us when our land is devalued
You: but first, ban-link has to be fixed
Tree Kyomoon: hello all
Khamon Fate: perhaps the system can remove someone from the global list if enough percentage of the users unban them
Khamon Fate: would that work?
You: well you can't keep spouting propaganda about how "erroneous or untrustworthy lists won't be used" when they are not flagged in any way
Jumpman Lane: i cant appeal to the people who put me on ban link
You: right now everybody grabs everything in fear
Iridium Linden: Hmm, that could be corrupted though, Khamon.
Khamon Fate: well i want ryan to sell me his land in slate but that ain't gonna happen
Jumpman Lane: i called em every kinda swinging monkey in the jungle
Khamon Fate: corrupted how?
Laetizia Coronet: I'd hate to see the roads go and more parcel ban lines erected instead
Laetizia Coronet: there is something about road travel in SL, about being aware of where you are relative to other spots, that TPing doesn't do for you
Tree Kyomoon usurps the power
Iridium Linden: Alt accounts, I would think. It's a workaround.
You: roads are merely props to raise the value of real estate to keep your pesky neighbour with the ugly build at arm's length, they aren't about actual "travel"
Khamon Fate: i'm just thinking that there has to be some way for people to be whitelisted, removed, appealed, timed out, or something without them all having to contact me to be cleared at Fate Gardens in Slate, your one stop tree market
Jumpman Lane: roads are like stairs
Khamon Fate: oops, sorry
Laetizia Coronet: Not for you maybe Prok but I use them
Jumpman Lane: you dont need em
Chadrick Linden: Linden has nothing to do with Banlink, we can't sway travis, A. And B, people have the right to do what they wish with their land. They don't have to offer an appeal if they don't want. It's entirely up to travis
You: Khamon, the Angel Fluffy version has timers
Iridium Linden: Right, Khamon. Point taken.
You: so they can rotate in more than 300
Tree Kyomoon loves the word pesky
You: Chadrick seeing as how you will GOM something close to this and put it in the client
Khamon Fate: oh i see, but only landowning users would be able to unban right? do they let nonlandowners sign up?
Khamon Fate: that's silly
You: and seeing as how SVC244 on that annoying JIRA thing has a huge amen corner
Chadrick Linden: More rumors, Prok. Entirely untrue
You: enabling massive LL commands to grab stuff
You: we have to worry
Wyn Galbraith: What, I've followed Linden roads. Walked on them. Matter of fact I think they're great. Love them I do, want to marry them I do LOL
You: well YOU are the one who told us, I have the transcript
You: that you will have some sharing thinger in the client, that's your concept, you were indeed floating that
Tree Kyomoon wonders how prokofy deals with all those worry warts
You: and I'm saying you need a way to have a ratings system on the list to discourage the frivolous bans
Iridium Linden: Yeah, I'm confused. Can we focus on what we do know?
You: It's always what we don't know that bites us in the ass in SL, tho Iridium
Chadrick Linden: But you are acting as if you understand the functionality of the project. You don't. All I said was, if you read the transcript is that we had spoken to travis and he said himself it wasn't gomING. It's not.
Khamon Fate: i know that i've banned three people my whole career
You: dwell taken away, telehubs pulled, insider island prices, etc. etc.
You: so it pays to worry
Khamon Fate: and consequently unbanned them the next day
You: Chadrick you are acting as if you understand the impact of these pernicious systems: you don't
Iridium Linden: No, I think it pays to worry too, Prokofy. I'm just trying not to get confused here.
Tree Kyomoon worries about the baggage retrieval system they've got at heathrow
You: fly around and eat red ban lines and feel the pain
Iridium Linden: Your point is that we need a system of checks and balances.
Iridium Linden: Our point is that we don't have that kind of power to enforce on Travis what he won't accept.
You: well you all like coding stuff and you like ratings stuff I thought that would be perfect for you
Iridium Linden: It's his system.
Khamon Fate: it's better than gatwicks
You: it's not how I'd do it but I try to conform to your code-as-law stuff
Wyn Galbraith: LOL Tree!
You: Travis is irrelevant
Chadrick Linden: There's no point in being inflammitory about subjects you know nothing about. Accurate information is the key, and there's very little of that in your previous statements here today. We are Not GOMing banlink. We looked at banlink to get feedback about what works in his system and what doesnt.
Wyn Galbraith carries on her luggage.
Laetizia Coronet: but Prok, roads are devoid of ban lines yet you want to abolish them? I flew across 40 sims by using water- and roadways
You: I'm talking about YOUR version of Travis
You: and that means the Gov Linden mass ban list
You: no no
You: I love roads
You: I just think they need to sell them to make tier
Chadrick Linden: That anyone can add someone to the whitelist on and override
You: so to speak
Wyn Galbraith: There's no banning on the roads except maybe for Linden's ban list and by rights they have the right to do that.
You: and there they are, waiting to be sold and they could sell them and keep the "no build" on them
Laetizia Coronet: Ah yes, I was forgetting your freemarket cred :)
You: it's a lot of untiered space
Khamon Fate: oh so we would own the land linden builds were on but have no rights to build or delete on it?
You: you note that in all new continents they don't have roads and easements and builds anymore
You: no accident, comrade
You: right
You: you get the prims out of them, what's left
You: and maybe like 48 m2 of ad space per sim? or a formula like that
Khamon Fate: that's an idea, y'all can sell me the governor's mansion
You: another plan is to just rent off all the roadside ad space
Chadrick Linden: no, wrong.
Iridium Linden bids on the Gov's mansion, hehe.
You: and force the extortionists to move to them and stop devaluing our sims
Khamon Fate: i'll keep it up and build a big shiny tower on top with pink flags and
Chadrick Linden: Ifd you don't want to subscribe to the banlist, then
Chadrick Linden: don't
Tree Kyomoon: sad day when all that publicly available stuff gets sold to jerks
Iridium Linden: Prokofy, I don't understand where you are getting this information.
You: Chadrick, erm, the banlist subscribes to ME pal
You: that's the problem
Iridium Linden: Can you fill me in?
Chadrick Linden: um, no
You: which information?
You: about the roads?
You: um, yes
You: because it operates on "trust" which means merely grabbing the list
Khamon Fate: what does "subscribes to ME" mean?
Chadrick Linden: Read the past transcript and we can continue this conversation. You are spewing innacurate info again, my friend.
Iridium Linden: [11:36] Prokofy Neva: another plan is to just rent off all the roadside ad space [11:36] Chadrick Linden: no, wrong. [11:36] Iridium Linden bids on the Gov's mansion, hehe. [11:36] Prokofy Neva: and force the extortionists to move to them and stop devaluing our sims
Tree Kyomoon: thats not an argument, its just a series of contradictions!
You: that's MY SUGGESTION
Iridium Linden: Hope you're okay with my pasting that, Prokofy.
You: not a plan of LL's
Squirrel Wood: any form of rating system on banlists is going to be abused.
Iridium Linden: Ah, kk.
Iridium Linden: Thanks.
You: yes of course my God it's a free country
You: no, that's my PLAN
You: I started by saying sell off the roads, then maybe rent off the space
You: you know, to raise income
You: for the compensation package for example
Khamon Fate: iridium why don't y'all put up tasteful billboards and such and rent the space?
You: : )
Iridium Linden: Interesting.
Laetizia Coronet: lmao he posts transcripts like there's no tomorrow and you're asking?
Khamon Fate: that'd be a good sink
Chadrick Linden: lol laetizia
You: totally
You: you have to
You: keep them honest
Iridium Linden: :) Khamon.
Chadrick Linden: we do we need a linden road sink?
You: well no not a sink
Chadrick Linden: *why
You: real money
You: start by offering the entire thing as bulk sims
You: see if you get a bite
Laetizia Coronet: they sink already at sim crossings
You: then sim by sim auctions
Tree Kyomoon: so the topic is "how the lindens can raise capital" ? Why does diluting the product seem like a good idea?
You: well because you have to plan for that big liquidity thing
Tree Kyomoon: whats wrong with simply engaging additional investors?
Wyn Galbraith: I think the roads are important, since on those roads one can travel through sims where the parcels may beblocked by the owners.
Laetizia Coronet: THe topic in the background is: Lindens, step out, let the market take over.
Khamon Fate: i thunk the IPO was a good idea
You: Chadrick, here you are, turning over the grid to residents
You: and yet it's rivulated with your land you have to maintain and put ban lists on, like a slab of beef
Khamon Fate: it's that the plan, turn over the grid to residents?
You: wouldnt' you rather just even it all up?
Chadrick Linden: Turning the tools to allow the resident to govern themselves, over
Chadrick Linden: that IS evening it up
Dirk Talamasca: I like the roads too. Take away the roads and broken hearted robots will be all over the place.
Chadrick Linden: one person = one vote [uh-oh -- are they planning some kind of sim automatic voting thing to vote people off their land or change their behaviour? this sounds like Cuban neighbourhood committees!!!--PN]
You: tools don't kill people, people kill people
Iridium Linden: lol, Dirk.
You: the tools don't work on Linden land
Tree Kyomoon: so you would logically hand roads and stuff over to a democratically elected parliament no?
Iridium Linden: lol, Prok.
You: and rather than having people run it by committee or ask to be your pets and run it and "help" you maybe just sell it off, be done with it
Khamon Fate: polls, polls at login, that's a great idea
Iridium Linden doesn't have pets.
Laetizia Coronet: I don't think we're in the CDS here
Laetizia Coronet: things tend to move dead slow there
Tree Kyomoon doesnt have pets...they keep trying to bury me
Iridium Linden: As far as I know, Jack Linden is the man to talk to about Linden-owned land.
You: well he's on another time zone
Khamon Fate: hey iridium, y'all can grafitti policies all over the roads and other linden builds, people would see them then
You: and it actually is on topic related to Gov Linden's workload maintaining a huge ban list
Iridium Linden: Yes, but he does have office hours, and he is the Linden able to answer these questions.
Khamon Fate: is he really?
Iridium Linden: lol, Khamon.
Wyn Galbraith: Chadrick, are there plans in the works to remove Linden roads and roadbeds?
Khamon Fate: does jack handle all the gov land now?
Iridium Linden: And kill the blog?
Chadrick Linden: He's the head of the concierge team khamon, yes
Iridium Linden: He handles most land issues, yes.
You: Iridium, could you then tell us what you ARE going to spring on us? Be specific. What are these new tools?
Khamon Fate: yes just IM everyone to go to sim Foo and read the roadway
Khamon Fate: ha ha ha
Laetizia Coronet: Prok, if it's any help, I'll be happy to go to his office hour (I am in central Europe) and put forth your questions to him if time is the problem
Iridium Linden: New governance tools, Prokofy?
You: well isn't that your topic?
You: lay it out for us then
Iridium Linden: I'm just asking to make sure that's what we're talking about.
You: governance
Khamon Fate: we *were* talking about the communities team communicating with us effectively
Iridium Linden: Chadrick launched the beta project some time ago to give estate owners the abilitiy to handle their own abuse reports, for one.
You: well you just fill out a trouble ticket Khamon, they answer faster now
Wyn Galbraith: Chadrick, are there plans in the works to remove Linden roads and roadbeds?
Tree Kyomoon: how has that been working chadrick?
Iridium Linden: Chadrick blogged about that project about a month ago.
Iridium Linden: Let me see if I can find it.
Tree Kyomoon: ok I'll check the blog
You: yes and we flogged that quite a bit already, is there anything new on it?
You: did they figure out that they were already doing that anyway? and that the PNs aren't something they control on their own sim?
You: because....drumroll...they go on Linden land and water
You: par example
Iridium Linden: As far as I know, no. We've been completely transparent in the rollout of that project. Chadrick, anything new on that?
Wyn Galbraith: Chadrick, are there plans in the works to remove Linden roads and roadbeds?
Laetizia Coronet: the PN is nothing. I've seen an attack, it's peanuts, playground stuff
You: how much land do you own Laetizia?
Khamon Fate: or waterways, remember the waterways
Laetizia Coronet: none
You: well then
Wyn Galbraith: Oh yes and waterways.
Khamon Fate: remember when Loki was going ballistic over blocked waterways
Iridium Linden: lol
Wyn Galbraith is more interested in the roads right now, 'Water takes care of itself'
Khamon Fate: is that what started all this linden-owned thoroughfare stuff?
Laetizia Coronet: they effected the lives of 30 people max, for 2 minutes max. Big deal. I refuse to panic about these kids
Chadrick Linden: Wyn, no there aren't that I'm aware of. Iridium as far as the estate abuse project...we are looking at getting it rolled out in the next month or two
Iridium Linden: And as Prokofy just mentioned, the abuse reporting system is working.
Jumpman Lane: crashes sims though Leiteiza
Khamon Fate: we had a group that bought bits of land just to hold waterways, then LL started doing it for us
Wyn Galbraith: Thank you Chadrick.
Iridium Linden: Yay, Chadrick!
Laetizia Coronet: Jumpman they did, yes - as I said, 2 minutes
Jumpman Lane: sometimes two minutes
Dirk Talamasca: hooray! Roads kept and tools passed out.. Miller Time!
Wyn Galbraith: See it's good to have protected land run through the sims. Allows more people to be able to enjoy a sim.
You: um and what do those tools do?
Jumpman Lane: and two minutes in say a live stream takes longer than 2 minutes to untangle
Laetizia Coronet: Jumpman the trumped up fearmongering is their goal, not the crashing, that is the means to that end. So I refuse to play int their game
Wyn Galbraith: *the sims
Khamon Fate: can we talk about the Communities Initiative Team's ideas for communicating with the residents now?
Squirrel Wood: Unfortunately PN knows how to crash sims in a way so they stay down
You: oh I'm all for keeping up real estate values by having Linden protected land, but heck, if they need to raise the cash to compensate us in a year for the IPO, I understand
Dirk Talamasca: they put the hurt on a fool, real bad
Iridium Linden: Whenever you like, Khamon.
Wyn Galbraith facepalms.
Iridium Linden: That's all news to me, Prokofy.
Jumpman Lane: well you can ignore the fact that the sim is offline too if ya want to, i agree there attacks are more flash than substance though
Iridium Linden: I haven't heard anything about that.
You: Chadrick there is a persistent rumour put out by Intlibber that we are going to see a major "real life prosecution" of the PNs soon. Comments?
Khamon Fate: how would Intlibber know that?
Wyn Galbraith wonders where that rumor comes from.
Iridium Linden: I haven't heard anything about that.
Iridium Linden: By Linden Lab, Prokofy?
Jumpman Lane: guess that's a no!
Iridium Linden: Or by other Residents?
You: no by real life
Chadrick Linden: I do have a comment to that, yes.
Chadrick Linden: Cheese.
Khamon Fate: y'all need an inworld wiki, a build that people can go to and see screens and notecards and policies and current grid weather reports and such
Wyn Galbraith: LOL
Chadrick Linden: Total Cheese.
Laetizia Coronet: well anyone could, I guess, sue for damages if any were incurred
Khamon Fate: a whole island of information
You: well I thought as much, but you don't know until you ask : )
Iridium Linden: Yeah, the billboard system was supposed to do that, Khamon.
Iridium Linden: I totally agree.
Wyn Galbraith: I'd like more cheese with that whine.
Iridium Linden: The problem is getting a system that will do that.
Tree Kyomoon: perhaps we need to give prok a huge bottle of compound w for those worry warts
Wyn Galbraith: LOL
Laetizia Coronet: belt sander Tree
You: you all laugh at the Roads Auction System but trust me, you will bring it up at lunch in 30 days and say, by God, Prokofy was looking out for us, what a helluva guy, what a plan.
Khamon Fate: do you think people prefer some central location they know will inform them, or do they prefer information scattered around boards and such?
Khamon Fate: or you could do both of course
Laetizia Coronet: "What a helluva guy" - well that's partly correct :/
Khamon Fate: we tend to think exclusively in SL for some reason
Squirrel Wood: people would prefer of all vital information being delivered to them in some form
Tree Kyomoon: prok you sound like George Bush..."one day they'll all think I was the best president in history" he thinks to himself
Iridium Linden: :) Prok.
Iridium Linden accepted your inventory offer.
You: you just have to code it right to avoid mistakes like this picture
Laetizia Coronet: Tree, that is probably a compliment
Iridium Linden: ty
Wyn Galbraith: We all know that's not true.
Chadrick Linden: Prok, the only thing handing over the roads would do is give you more control over the mainland.
Dirk Talamasca: not sure that Prokofy and lunch would really go together all that well
Chadrick Linden: The roads will be and are run by Linden
You: well gosh that doesn't sound like more control of the mainland
Jumpman Lane: i'd prefer the info out world
You: I'm trying to find that picture where all the griefers go hang on the Linden road and grief from there
Chadrick Linden: Of your parcels
Wyn Galbraith: The roads should stay in the hands of the Lindens.
You: they reach in these long pointy sticks
Khamon Fate: has anyone seen that new notification system that allows you to send messages to a group without people having to belong to a group?
Laetizia Coronet: Chadrick then could build be switched on, with a quick autoreturn, to enable the rezzing of vehicles?
Wyn Galbraith bought land by a Linden road on purpose.
Jumpman Lane: dont need to be bothered goin to a laggy sim to maybe read something i could digest better on the offical site
Dirk Talamasca: ack! the pointed sticks!
Khamon Fate: all they do is touch a kiosk and it adds them to the list
Khamon Fate: it's like a majordomo
Tree Kyomoon: the roads should stay with the lindens until a stable government is established inside iraq..I mean SL
Chadrick Linden: laetizia, thats a good suggestion
Chadrick Linden: I'll bring it up
Iridium Linden: lol, Tree.
You: well I'm cool with that, I'm thinking, you don't make them anymore, for a reason, and your eye will fall on the fact that that there are like 3,242 untiered servers and Zee will say, well, here's where we can tighten up a loophole.
Wyn Galbraith: LOL Tree
Chadrick Linden: lol
Khamon Fate: there's always another avatar to buy the roadway
Iridium Linden: And more questions about roads really ought to be directed to Jack, since that's his area of work.
You: well griefing ON the roads is yours
Laetizia Coronet: what timezone is he in anyway?
You: so back to that tool box you are developing
You: what does it do?
Khamon Fate: he's in england
Khamon Fate: northumberland or such
Iridium Linden: ty, Khamon.
Khamon Fate: york
Laetizia Coronet: that's my zone, almost - my offer stands, Prok
Khamon Fate: maybe
Iridium Linden: Yeah, and he would be the man to discuss proposals with as well.
Wyn Galbraith: Thanks Iridium for the Jack reference.
Iridium Linden: Your concerns are really important, but it's also important that the right Linden gets the info.
Laetizia Coronet: I may not like you at all but in the interest of access to Lindens with questions I'd be glad to help
You: I've already long since discussed this with him for ages
Dirk Talamasca: Send him an e-mail. He has never failed to respond to any of mine.
You: you have to have buy in from all the departments
Iridium Linden: You don't like me?
Iridium Linden: lol
You: ok iridum, tools? what do they do?
You: do they like make toast in the morning?
Laetizia Coronet: lol I was taling to Prokofy, Iridium
Chadrick Linden: Buy in form all the departments? what do you mean prok?
You: give us like the headlines
Tree Kyomoon thinks you sure could play a mean round of boggle with the letters "prokofy neva"
You: well you know, buy in from all the distributed decision-making Linden units?
You: the DDMLUs?
Khamon Fate is sooooo lost
Iridium Linden: Which tools?
Squirrel Wood: The tools better be able to cook me dinner and make me coffee ^^
You: those new tools you are making?
Khamon Fate: tools to build roads?
You: to give us more empowerment over our land?
Iridium Linden: lol
Khamon Fate: are we roman now?
You: what will they do?
You: for instance: in the ban department?
Wyn Galbraith: LOL Tree/Squirrel
Khamon Fate: that *is* a good question from mainlanders
You: will they have SVC244 LL commands?
Iridium Linden: You told me that you beat that to death already a month ago.
Khamon Fate: is global banlisting the only tools we're gonna get?
Iridium Linden: We're open to suggestions, Prokofy.
You: well we did, so I asked -- anything new?
Iridium Linden: Not as far as I know, but we're happy to consider your thoughts.
You: well I gave you an idea already to make the banlists have ratings
You: you can have that for free ; )
You: well how about parliamentary democracy and a mixed economy?
Wyn Galbraith: Banlists with ratings is a bad idea.
Iridium Linden: We certainly want to give estate owners as much autonomy as possible.
You: separation of powers
You: a seat on the Linden board for tier payers?
You: a resident-Linden ombudsman board?
You: those are all my "tool" ideas LOL
You: I don't want any more tools
You: geez I feel like a goddamn airline pilot already in this game
Khamon Fate: land and governance tools always round back to estates
Iridium Linden: k, fair enough.
Laetizia Coronet: oho - for tier payers? Are we going to the meritocracy now?
You: I open up my groups and run the consoles on them for HOURS
Iridium Linden: True, Khamon.
Khamon Fate: so the answer is no?
Wyn Galbraith wants tons of tools, "Power tools!"
You: perming, banning, inviting, providing, ejecting -- it's a chore!
You: I need groups for my groups!
You: so seriously I don't need tools
You: tools I have
Chadrick Linden: Or better Serf allocating
Iridium Linden: lol, Prokofy.
Dirk Talamasca: If you own land, you gotta do the chores
Wyn Galbraith: Well, it is a very good thing that SL does not revolve around Prokofy Neva.
Iridium Linden would like to fix groups.
You: well Iridium you should try running 1500 people in 13 groups, it's a bit hard because the groups lag out all the time
Laetizia Coronet: It'd be renamed Neva Neva Land
You: I can't open up the suckers
Iridium Linden: Agreed.
You: they lag and I have to eject people in order to invite them to the higher powers
You: which of course causes fury
Wyn Galbraith plays a very tiny violin.
Khamon Fate: iridium is only trying to communicate with 40k+ residents at a time
Iridium Linden: I'm not happy with groups and I know a ton of Lindens who would agree.
You: yes but she doesn't do it with this airline pilot console inworld
Chadrick Linden: lol
You: she probably has some real people's thing outworld
Jumpman Lane: more groups would be better
Iridium Linden: :)
Jumpman Lane: than 25
Khamon Fate: group tools have been revised to meet most of the residents' demands over the years
Chadrick Linden: I think she manages it quite well
You: well I think it would be good if you just came clean and said, look, don't make groups bigger than 200, they can't work
You: in fact cap their members to force them to work
Tree Kyomoon agrees on groups -- I think making trees and relationships more pervasive in the data model might make it all better
Dirk Talamasca: she does okay with a broken heart
Khamon Fate: yeah, we should have inventory caps too
Laetizia Coronet: but then open up to allow more than 25 at the same time or you're in deep doodoo
Wyn Galbraith needs more groups.
Iridium Linden: I agree that groups are a mess. We're trying to fix them, then we'll make them better.
You: well I've had to start stashing inventory everywhere inworld because it gets lost off those patches all the time
Tree Kyomoon: groups/subgroups need to exist
You: especially notecards
Iridium Linden: You guys are so sweet.
Squirrel Wood: Allow people to give multiple groups access right to a parcel/sim ?
You: which are supposed to show to the groups when you send them around but the notices don't come up in their faces, which is why they never set prims and make their lives miserable
Laetizia Coronet: Iridium, you don't know me ;)
Khamon Fate doesn't need more groups, it just makes more to do
You: well that was my idea like 5 meetings ago Squirrel
Jumpman Lane: not inventory caps just clean yours
Iridium Linden: Hmm
You: I said make a big master Friends of Governor Linden group that could plant trees and remove plywood
You: that would overlay on to your own group land
Wyn Galbraith: All the good ideas are Prokofy's don't ya know, and all the bad ideas belong to the rest of us.
Iridium Linden: I don't think the Gov should have friends.
You: then you could return like crashed airplanes of no-show neighbours
Iridium Linden: In part because of your comments about impartiality, Prokofy.
You: well caretakers
Wyn Galbraith: Doesn't matter who thought of those ideas first.
Laetizia Coronet: it would be good to give mentors some capabiities of removal, at the least on Linden owned land
You: no it surely doesn't people have said it for ages
You: and I don't like the idea of pets running land truly
You: but maybe there is a way to somehow make it very generic and limited
Dirk Talamasca: Me either Iridium. Look what happened to Caesar
Wyn Galbraith: That's a good idea Laetizia.
Laetizia Coronet: all we do now is go in, send ARs and hope someone can come clean up
You: only removal of physics-enabled items like vehicles, say or something
You: or only untextured plywood
You: lol well something
Iridium Linden: Yeah, I'm not in favor of giving groups of Residents special access to Linden land. No matter what they're doing.
Laetizia Coronet: something which clearly doesn't belong
You: well I wish you had spoken up last time then Iridium
Wyn Galbraith: Removal of anything that doesn't belong to the road group.
Jumpman Lane: why mentors are supoosed to be helpin noobs open boxes not runnin around like crocket and tubbs
You: when I had to keep crabbing then on that same point in response to Tree
Laetizia Coronet: I know Iridium but some land is just a big rotten mess. Either you deal with it or you let someone do it for you
You: yeah they ought to dismantle Mentors and outsource the whole thing
Iridium Linden: Right, we're trying to deal with it.
Iridium Linden: That's why we're expanding Concierge.
Iridium Linden: Prokofy, sometimes it's hard to tell when you're joking.
Iridium Linden: :)
Chadrick Linden: Prok, do you want to do it. I'll talk to someone about allowing you and only you but you have to wear an orange jacket while you do it ;P
You: no look at the transcript from that time
Laetizia Coronet: he is not, read his blog
Iridium Linden: lol
Khamon Fate: not mentors, anybody can be a mentor
You: no, I don't want me and only me that's retarded
Wyn Galbraith: Laetizia is right there. Autoreturn should be on, but sent for a long period of time. If someone drives along a road and gets out for some reason the vehicle shouldn't be returned for a bit.
You: and it was not my point to flog it was Tree's actually 2 weeks ago
Wyn Galbraith: SL Mentors.
Iridium Linden: Mentors don't have special powers anyway.
You: hmmm
You: they should just the WAs
You: look at that IMAX gal
You: by saying she was helping newbs
Chadrick Linden: Volunteers instead of Mentors?
Iridium Linden: I suppose you would debate that, and I'll read your blog to catch up on your view, Prok.
You: she got to flog her Harry Potter movie in the WA
Laetizia Coronet: Iridium, some limited removal powers would do a world of good against griefers
You: where were all those mentors looking?!
Jumpman Lane: and really dont need them, they voluteer to help new slers not trot around fighting "griefers'
Khamon Fate: that's what we did in the welcome center in slate wyn, autoreturn is set for 1/2 hour so people can play primwars and such
You: well I wouldnt' recommend reading my blog Iridium
Iridium Linden: lol
Chadrick Linden: Why not Prok?
You: but it was just said, the idea of the multiple groups
Iridium Linden: The volunteering program is under new management.
Iridium Linden: I'm sure you're aware.
Dirk Talamasca: because no one else does
You: well my blog is not for the faint-hearted
Tree Kyomoon enjoys prok's blog
Laetizia Coronet: Prok as I said, the WAs are open land, you can flog your rentals there until your hands fall off from typing so much
Wyn Galbraith: Who's the new manager, Iridium?
Iridium Linden: Blue Linden.
You: well look up my traffic in Alexa, and my name in Google, it does get a fair number of views, that's for sure lol
Wyn Galbraith: Oh good, already been to him ;)
Khamon Fate: i thunk blue was all teen grid
Khamon Fate: did y'all close the teen grid?
Wyn Galbraith: Blue is on both grids.
You: I don't wish to flog my rentals in WAs, and no, they are not open
Khamon Fate: OMG RUMOUR
Laetizia Coronet: and as it is George L has told us that such activities are not to be done under the mentor tag
Iridium Linden: Mentors who abuse their status will not be tolerated.
Jumpman Lane: hey phhok
Chadrick Linden: At all.
Squirrel Wood: Smoking is bad for your pixels!
Wyn Galbraith: Have you stopped flogging your renters Prokofy?
You: Iridium, can you tell us how many mentors you have discliplined for that problem in the last 30 days?
Iridium Linden: Blue deals with TG and Volunteers.
Phooka Oh: hi all
Jumpman Lane: that's good to now
You: I don't need to flog my rentals in WAs
You: the newbies pour in on their own
You: not needed
You: I'm speaking of the principle of the thing
Iridium Linden: When an abuse report is filed against a mentor, the Volunteer team takes that very, very seriously.
You: why should the IMAX lady get to flog Harry Potter and have Hamlet nee Linden Au write about it and flog it???
You: I want air time like that too! everyone should have it
Iridium Linden: We have an entire team of Lindens managing that program currently.
Laetizia Coronet: Prok you are not listening. You say mentors have 'special aaccess' in WA's. They have not, WAs are open, you could do as they are doing.
You: ok so how many of those are on the police blotter this month?
You: yes but Iridium is telling us they take it very very seriously and it's not part of their powers
Jumpman Lane: who can even understand the blotter
You: well it is, but you know, officially not
Wyn Galbraith: Great avatar Phooka. Love it.
You: so have there been any disciplinary actions?
Jumpman Lane: another communication break down
Iridium Linden: I don't have those numbers, Prok, and even if I did, I'm not sure it's ethical to tell Residents about that.
Phooka Oh: ty wyn :)
Iridium Linden: I can ask Blue what he thinks, if you like.
Anfrey Tripsa: lol
Laetizia Coronet: someone asked me for a TP to my shop and I declined. Hows that for bad vicious profiteering mentors?
You: well put a sample on the police blotter, it could have huge deterrent powers : )
Chadrick Linden: They get removed from the team prok, if such a thing occurs
Phooka Oh: ur not bad urself :)
Iridium Linden: Mentors have been removed, yes.
You: how many of these troops are there now?
Iridium Linden: How many mentors?
You: volunteers, greeters, mentors, instructors
Tree Kyomoon: hey cool hair phooka
Laetizia Coronet: about 1000 I believe was said
You: you know, the Resident Governors
Iridium Linden: Well, there aren't really any active instrictors anymore as you know.
Khamon Fate: are there still resident instructors?
You: ok scratch that
Iridium Linden: Volunteers form the umbrella.
Chadrick Linden: Time to wrap up folks
Wyn Galbraith: You mean people who give free classes, Khamon?
Khamon Fate: yeah i gotta fold some laundry
Iridium Linden: So all greeters and mentors are volunteers.
Laetizia Coronet: Thanks for your time Chad
Tree Kyomoon: thanks for hosting
Khamon Fate: i mean linden-sponsored instructors
Tree Kyomoon: hope we were helpful :)
Laetizia Coronet: and Iridium of course
Iridium Linden: Active volunteers? I'll ask.
Wyn Galbraith: Always a pleasure Chadrick and Iridum.
Chadrick Linden: Thanks everyone for coming. Thanks Iridium for fielding most of the questions this week.
Khamon Fate: yes thank you for hosting charick and iridium
Iridium Linden: My pleasure.
Iridium Linden: It was interesting and fun.
Tree Kyomoon hopes the future will smarten up
Laetizia Coronet: and thanks Prok for keeping it all a bit less in-your-face
Jumpman Lane: sure greattimes
Squirrel Wood: Keep up the good work :)
Jumpman Lane: later
Iridium Linden: lol
Phooka Oh: chad I havent had a chance to speak - if i buy a sim from a private vendor do i have to purchase admin rights separately?
Iridium Linden: Na, the future is stupid, Tree.
You: the future is NOW
Khamon Fate: why do you think that tree, the future's never smartened up in thousands of years
Anfrey Tripsa: damn, i didn't get to ask about ghost prims
You: shoes for industry! shoes for defense!
Chadrick Linden: ha
Chadrick Linden: later crew :)
Iridium Linden: Yes, exactly my point, Prokofy.
Wyn Galbraith: The future is stupid, we'll never get there.
Tree Kyomoon: :)
Laetizia Coronet: the future is overrated
Jumpman Lane: er what's a ghost prim?
Wyn Galbraith giggles
Tree Kyomoon: stupid flanders
You: irdium one second!
Dirk Talamasca punk'd the future
You: there's a group called SL Mentors
Wyn Galbraith: LOL
You: with 2 people
Iridium Linden: It's a prim that you can see but doesn't show up on the radar.
You: and it's for "self-righteous fags" it says
Khamon Fate: the idea that we're smarter, braver, more enlightened, more intelligent than we've ever been is a cute fantasy, but it's simply not true
Iridium Linden: Yeah, Prokofy.
Iridium Linden: What>?
You: could you remove that for being kind of anti-gay?
Jumpman Lane: oh
Iridium Linden: Are you serious?
You: that doesn't seem right
You: yes
Anfrey Tripsa: i have 30 of them on my land somehow... it used to be a building, it was deleted, but i can't walk where there were walls
You: I'm looking it in the list
Iridium Linden: No, it's not right at all.
You: I'm trying to find the real mentors group and it's impossible
Anfrey Tripsa: very odd
You: because there are so many OTHER things
Laetizia Coronet: Iridium I'd like an AR button for Search entries
You: like "SL Mentos"
You: "Spanish Mentors"
Khamon Fate: i gotta run, see y'all
Wyn Galbraith: There really is no reason to use such language. Really, show some intellegence, please.
Tree Kyomoon: does a search for sl mentos
You: "German Menteren"
You: etc
You: um, I'm just reciting what that group says
Iridium Linden: I know, I can't find anything in Search.
You: not saying it myself duh
You: well there used to be a group
You: maybe they hid it
You: keep it part of the conspiracy
Laetizia Coronet: TOday I busted a guy called KikeSPicNigger something. Now really people.
Jumpman Lane: that whole sim is wonky
Tree Kyomoon: ciao khamon
Jumpman Lane: have to fly away to tp
Iridium Linden: Prof, would you consider filing an AR and emailing me the ticket number? Cause I can't find the group!
Wyn Galbraith: B-bye!!! :D
Anfrey Tripsa: agreed, i can't get to parts of my building
You: ok will do
Iridium Linden: Bye!
You: it's on there for sure
Anfrey Tripsa: because there used to be walls in certain parts that are still ghosted
Tree Kyomoon: second life mentos is a real group!
Iridium Linden: Thanks! iridium@lindenlab.com
Tree Kyomoon: they seem to be the freshmakers!
Laetizia Coronet: Mental Mentors is also a real group
Wyn Galbraith: Second Life Mentors is a real group.
Iridium Linden: Yeah, that's intolerance.
Anfrey Tripsa: lol tree
You: 1502
Iridium Linden: Totally not okay.
You: yikes
You: 1,502 of those overlords
You: just found them
You: I should AR them too
Iridium Linden: Mental Mentors is a real group.
Laetizia Coronet: overlords, you gots to be kiddin me
Iridium Linden: Yeah, just send me the laundry list of ticket numbers.
You: well I'd like to abuse report them as an institution
You: for overstepping their authority without democratic election
Wyn Galbraith: Holey geeze.
Iridium Linden: I agree.
You: I realize there's no check-off box for that
Iridium Linden: Wait, who?
You: but I'll wing it
Iridium Linden: Mental Mentors?
You: Second Life Mentors
You: Mentor singular
Iridium Linden: Yeah, you can do that too, Prokofy.
Iridium Linden: Blue would address that issue.
You: We are a group who devote part of our time to helping new people. Meeting, greeting and answering questions is our specialty! People make the difference!
Iridium Linden: He has weekly MG office hours.
You: they abuse reoprt people on call
You: yes I was wondering if blue had been furloughed
You: is Lee Linden still there?
Iridium Linden: If you have concerns about Volunteers and what kind of status they inhabit, you should talk to him about that.
You: iridium do you have a bear?
You: or *are* you a bear?
Laetizia Coronet: I abuse rport people when I witness them actually doing things wrong, not 'on call'
Iridium Linden: I don't know Lee.
You: are you an office linden?
Laetizia Coronet: we are encouraged NOT to be the police of SL
Iridium Linden: I don't have a bear and I'm the Broken Heart Robot.
Iridium Linden: :)
Dirk Talamasca: She is way pretty for a bear
Iridium Linden: An office Linden?
Iridium Linden: Yeah, I'm on the Community Team.
You: yes, you know the levelled up ones?
You: in the office
Tree Kyomoon: levelled up lindens?
You: s distinct from the liasion telecommuting ones
Iridium Linden: Community Initiatives with Blue, Claudia, and Everett.
You: yes you know, in Strategic SL?
Laetizia Coronet: she is an Enhanced Linden Lab Dropne, yes
Iridium Linden: I work at the Sansome office.
You: so you levelled up
You: did you get to 55 yet?
Iridium Linden: ?
Iridium Linden: What do you mean?
Tree Kyomoon: I think its a secret handshake joke
You: I may have said too much
Wyn Galbraith: Always.
Phooka Oh: prokofy can u ask some of these lengthy questions by email - u are hogging all the time
Dirk Talamasca: ROFL
Tree Kyomoon: prok couldnt get into scull and bones
Iridium Linden: I work at the office, Prokofy, but my job is to make sure that your feedback is incorporated into our day to day decisions.
Iridium Linden accepted your inventory offer.
Iridium Linden: Thanks, Prok.
You: do you have what it takes to become a True Linden?
Wyn Galbraith: Watch it Phooka, calling Prok down brings it down on you.
Tree Kyomoon: thanks fro coming iridium!
Phooka Oh: what do u mean wyn?
Wyn Galbraith: Prok likes moving targets.
You: *tell no one* Iridium
Iridium Linden: I don't know, Prokofy. The quality of my work is determined by the Residents.
Phooka Oh: i asked an important question which was ignored
Jumpman Lane: what's a TRUE LInden!
You: You will be contacted.
Iridium Linden: If you think I suck, then who am I to argue?
You: Let it be our little secret!
Iridium Linden: kk, thanks.
Iridium Linden: :)
You: NEVER tell Chadrick.
Iridium Linden: lol
Wyn Galbraith: I know, Phooka, it happens in every meeting Prokof y shows up in.
You: You will be shown the magnetic center of SL
Laetizia Coronet: a fake Linden - now that'ds be a thing to behold
Iridium Linden: Sounds interesting.
Wyn Galbraith: Prokofy likes attention.
Iridium Linden: Should I be afraid?
You: very
Phooka Oh: for someone who professes to be here to help u talk too much prok
Iridium Linden: kk
Jumpman Lane: lol
Jumpman Lane: i wanna see it too!
Tree Kyomoon: I think we all like attention, or we would all be ruths
Anfrey Tripsa: i'm lost. i'[ll just go file with jira and hope it gets through
Wyn Galbraith: LOL
You: and if I didn't show up you'd all be making obsequious faux-insult remarks to the Lindens
Iridium Linden: kk, I'm off.
You: at least I give them something to chew on
Iridium Linden: If you guys have questions, feel free to email me.
You: bye
Iridium Linden: I'm at your disposal.
Laetizia Coronet: bye Iridiu
Anfrey Tripsa: what's your address again iridium?
Laetizia Coronet: *m
Wyn Galbraith: Give something to throw up more like.
Tree Kyomoon: thanks iridium...we wont dispose of you
Iridium Linden: iridium@lindenlab.com
Iridium Linden: :)
You: chat history
Jumpman Lane: sure but never emal me iridium, not pleasin at all
Iridium Linden: Aww, sorry Jumpman.
Wyn Galbraith: Thanks Iridium, Have a nice day as they say in Californian.
Iridium Linden: :(
Jumpman Lane: lolo
Wyn Galbraith giggles
Iridium Linden: kk, bye folks!
Jumpman Lane: had to take all the smut off my profile
Laetizia Coronet: bye!
Jumpman Lane: later
Anfrey Tripsa: i'll be emailing you, hopefully you guys can solve this issue with ghosted "selected/sat upon" prims
Tree Kyomoon: /tree goes behind the woodshed to teach the future a lesson
Dirk Talamasca: : ) Bye Iridium
Phooka Oh: bye iridium ill catch u another time i guess
Wyn Galbraith: LOL Tree!
Anfrey Tripsa: well that was it
Phooka Oh: lol
Jumpman Lane: man you look like peter pan!
Anfrey Tripsa: lol
Tree Kyomoon: now you all can be let in on the secret
Anfrey Tripsa: i'm still in my costume from last night
Wyn Galbraith: Welcome to Linden meetings Phooka, you're refreshing.
Tree Kyomoon: I am actually in charge of everything
Jumpman Lane: what secrect
Jumpman Lane: ?
Tree Kyomoon: ever since I sat in this chair
Wyn Galbraith: And Chadrick let you.
Wyn Galbraith: Must be a Linden pet, Tree.
Jumpman Lane: lol
Phooka Oh: ty wyn - i still didnt get my question answered
Laetizia Coronet: Does anyone have a laptop for me? All I can buy are 200 L$ typing anim laptops, I need a separate one
Jumpman Lane: what was ur question phooka?
Wyn Galbraith: What' was the question, I didn't see it in all the Prokofy chat spam
Anfrey Tripsa: the one i'm using is no transfer :(
Wyn Galbraith: Either I or Laetizia may be able to give you an answer or find one for you.
Laetizia Coronet: I want one to pose on my desk
Phooka Oh: im buying a sim from a private vendor and need to know if i have to purchase admin rights separately
Anfrey Tripsa: i could probably make one, laptops are fairly easy
Tree Kyomoon: so lets see...prokofy neva....well theres porky, fork, peak,
Laetizia Coronet: maybe Prok knows the answer to that one
Wyn Galbraith: You would have to ask the vendor that, I believe.
Phooka Oh: lmao laet
Anfrey Tripsa: three prims, 4 textures
Phooka Oh: ty wyn
Laetizia Coronet: or I can throw that bone to other mentors and see what it comes up with
Wyn Galbraith: If you buy the land from LL you get all the rights.
Tree Kyomoon: provoke
Laetizia Coronet: I wasn't kidding Phooka, he will know it
Phooka Oh: if the vendor says they will give me the rights, i pay and then they dont what can i do?
Tree Kyomoon: Ooo thats a good one
Jumpman Lane: cheaper too those prices u talked about phook were robbery
Phooka Oh: yes jump
Phooka Oh: im looking into that also :)
Jumpman Lane: i f you're goin for a sim, and your credit is good, get it from LL
Anfrey Tripsa: well, do any of you know about the issue with prims being hosted on deletion, leaving them in the "selected / sat upon" prim count and still taking up in-world space? there was a building on property i rent, which was deleted, though i cannot walk past anywhere where there used to be walls
Phooka Oh: the problem is that it is taking weeks
Anfrey Tripsa: does the sim need to be restarted for it to get fixed?
Phooka Oh: our business manager is from brazil and it is getting very complicated
Tree Kyomoon: Provoky Nefa
Jumpman Lane: dont u rent from profky
Phooka Oh: who?
Tree Kyomoon: or mabey Provoke Nyfa
Tree Kyomoon: yes...
Anfrey Tripsa: i do, but there is nothing he can do i don't think. the building is as if it were still there but not there
Wyn Galbraith: Not much. You might be better off buying from LL. Where is this land if I may ask?
Jumpman Lane: he owns the land!
Jumpman Lane: maybe afk
Anfrey Tripsa: it's being counted into "selected / sat upon" after deletion
Wyn Galbraith: Phantom prims clear after a restart.
Tree Kyomoon tents fingers and whispers...excellent
Anfrey Tripsa: thanks wyn
Anfrey Tripsa: do you know how often they occur?
Wyn Galbraith: welcome ;)
Wyn Galbraith: I don't have that answer, sorry.
Anfrey Tripsa: i hope it happens soon... i cannot get into parts of my new building due to these invisible walls in the way
Wyn Galbraith: All the sims have been restarted recently I think, haven't they?
Wyn Galbraith: When the grid was down.
Laetizia Coronet: Phooka, you still need an answer to your origfinal question?
Anfrey Tripsa: does that mean i'm screwed for a while then?
Phooka Oh: anfrey ask for a reduction in rent until it is fixed
Laetizia Coronet: ANfrey youn can file a support ticket
Phooka Oh: surely its the landlords issue
Wyn Galbraith: Give him a better one if you have it Laetizia.
Laetizia Coronet: not yet, I can throw it on the channel
Anfrey Tripsa: thanks prokofy. may i have a reduction in rent until it is fixed?
Wyn Galbraith forgot about the support request.
Phooka Oh: lmao
You: well if the Lindens give me a reduction in tier, sure
Anfrey Tripsa: lol well you told me to ask you
Tree Kyomoon: muhahahahah
Laetizia Coronet: Phooka?
Jumpman Lane: lol
Phooka Oh: yes
Laetizia Coronet: you need an answer still?
Phooka Oh: i do
Laetizia Coronet: ok hang on
You: he's hardly better off buying land and paying $9.95 instead of $1.50 in my rentals, with more prims than LL gives him
Phooka Oh: ty :)
You: but whatever!
You: lol
Peter Newell is Offline
Larry Pixel is Online
Jumpman Lane: that is tur 150 as opposed to 117
You: Anfrey first of all
You: as I've told you
You: selected sat upon DOES NOT
You: repeat DOES NOT count on your prim count
You: you are in a group
Anfrey Tripsa: that's not my problem though
You: and those are vehicles or houses or whatever
Anfrey Tripsa: the problem is that the old walls are still there
You: they do NOT count on your land, put it out of your mind please
You: well when I look, I see them not only deleted
Anfrey Tripsa: if you walk in a bu ilding i placed, there are parts i cannot walk past [I find this sort of person ABSOLUTELY EXASPERATIN! He interrupts the meeting a dozen times, even though he's *my* tenant and I had already explained to him on site that when you seemingly can't delete prims, there's nothing the manager can do, the sim needs restarting. My point was if the Lindens were restarting all the sims that day *anyway* we should just wait for the rolling restart because the queue to get service at Concierge was long -- it was not running "live" in fact because LL had so many problems that day. This guy kept hammering and hammering on this problem, without realizing that a, we all understood it and couldn't fix it and b) he could just move across the road to an identical empty lot in our community and press refund. I wish people were problem-solvers--PN]
You: I see no prims on the land from me [that was an additional wierdness, it was ghosting for him, I saw no prims showing from me, and I could fly around easilier -- there must have been a patch I missed that he was hitting higher up or something.--PN]
Phooka Oh: prok u r still providing a service and the customer is having issues
You: which there would be if there were
You: if you are seeing ghosts, I can request a restart
Laetizia Coronet: Phooka: short answer: NO
Anfrey Tripsa: those parts are where the used walls use to be
You: but i'm not seeing ghosts
Tree Kyomoon: cant you just restart the sim?
Anfrey Tripsa: ah i see
Wyn Galbraith: Do they block you form moving around, Anfrey?
Anfrey Tripsa: do you think you could do that?
Anfrey Tripsa: yes wyn
You: you can't "just restart' the mainland
You: you have to get in the queue to the Lindens
Wyn Galbraith: Prokofy can restart the sim.
You: no Wyn
You: MAINLAND
You: you cannot restart mainland
You: only islands
You: Lindens have to restart
Laetizia Coronet: no he cannot, mainland needs to be Linden restarted
You: and they are restarting them ANYWAY
Wyn Galbraith: Sure you said you had the power.
Phooka Oh: lol laet - no i have no way to force a verba agreement about passing of admin rights?
Anfrey Tripsa: these ghosted prims are blocking my movement
You: no Wyn
Anfrey Tripsa: they are in places that should be open area
You: ghost prims on mainland cannot be solved if they are indeed ghost
You: but then I should see them too!
You: I always do WHEN they exist
You: but no matter, I can ask for a restart anyway
You: they will likely get to it
Wyn Galbraith: Oh yes Prokofy, I've heard that you do have the power.
Laetizia Coronet: no you don't need to - transfer is full transfer
Anfrey Tripsa: prokofy, do you think you could come take a look then?
You: it's easier just to go ask for a restart now
Phooka Oh: Laet are u absolutely sure?
Anfrey Tripsa: alright :)
You: if you are blocked then I can point that out
You: but it's odd that I wasn't when I checked last night
You: but whatever
Anfrey Tripsa: well, i put a building down, but i cannot get to the stairs
Anfrey Tripsa: because the "ghost wall" is in the way
Laetizia Coronet: Phooka I can't guarantee anything but 5 experienced metntors all said the same
Phooka Oh: prok he is onbviously not making it up to just piss u off
You: no, of course not
Phooka Oh: ok laet ty very much my friend
You: but it's odd
You: I had the thing deleted and not showing and I flew all around it
You: you could also just refund and move to the next lot over
You: there are 2-3 empty ones
You: you can get a full refund, just press refund
You: and the $25 cancellation fee is manually returned if you go a square over
You: if you are in a hurry
Anfrey Tripsa: ok that may be easier if i just move over to the big empty plot
You: they should restart it in an hour or so if they don't have a huge line
Wyn Galbraith: Phooka when you say buying from a 3rd party do you mean it's a land by like you click on the land and select buy?
Anfrey Tripsa: ah i see
Anfrey Tripsa: well, i will wait 4 hours
You: well you have that freedom, it has refunds unlike most places
Tree Kyomoon: prok how many meters do you control in SL about?
You: ok
Anfrey Tripsa: and if it still has issues, then i will move
Phooka Oh: that sort of thing wyn
Anfrey Tripsa: i appreciate the help prokofy
You: it's about 16 sims I think
Laetizia Coronet: well I am off... have a good whatever part of the day is next for you
Tree Kyomoon: wow very good
Anfrey Tripsa: i know it's beyond your hands and a LL issue, but i appreciate you taking the time
Wyn Galbraith: B-bye!!! :D
Phooka Oh: i was told by a mentor that i would only have right of resale
Jumpman Lane: layer wyn
Phooka Oh: and that admin rights may not pass
Tree Kyomoon: later wyn
Tree Kyomoon: any other officey hours?
Phooka Oh: bye wyn :)
Jumpman Lane: you gettin that mch land phook bo to LL
Wyn Galbraith was saying goodbye to others.
Phooka Oh: o ur staying :)
Phooka Oh: jump u r probably right
Jumpman Lane: shit i kow i am
Anfrey Tripsa: phooka are you buying a sim?
Phooka Oh: i just want to check all the options
Jumpman Lane: 2800 and you dont get admin rights
Phooka Oh: yes anfrey - maybe lol

Comments

[Cocoanut Koala]

This Linden banlist has got to be The. Worst. Thing. the Lindens ever did, and that's going some to say that.

Who ever heard of a company that actually got into the business of trying to make it easier to ban its own customers from huge swaths of its own game?

That actually got in the business of making it easier for others to make people's lives miserable?

By making its OWN damn banlist?

And inviting people to ban each other officially, from as many places as possible? On the basis of nothing but HEARSAY? And with zilch recourse for the named?

Whoever heard of a company that actually got in the big fat MIDDLE of something like this, and started encouraging blacklists - indeed, even HEADING one! - instead of letting people use their individual land ban tools as intended?

Answer: The same children who run meetings like this, where they treat some customers with enormous disrespect while patting others on the head for joining them in doing so. BABIES.

A company that treats its own customers like the enemy, and actually makes an official Linden blacklist for them, deserves failure.

I virtually never call anything "evil," but this is.

Death to it.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

What's frustrating, Coco, as I point out, is that for proprietary reasons, they won't come clean on just what they *are* doing, and they talk as if they are floating ideas and getting our input (though of course, they are doing no such thing and just maknig what they make), but if we object to what it SOUNDS like, we get a lecture and a poke in the eye about how we're spreading rumours.

If Governor Linden will have a ban list, and we can share it, hey, how does that differ from Ban-Link? And...if there is added functionality to share among ourselves on islands, or even mainland, how is that nOT like Ban-link?

Their challenge is to tell us how it is NOT like Ban-Link and confess how it IS like Ban-Link and stop this churlishness.

Yes, the logic of blacklisting its own customers defies me. If someone reaches the test of needing to be banned from Linden land, my God, why are they in Second Life at all?

[Prokofy Neva]

The defense of this idea, that there will be a "whitelist" obliterating the "blacklist" is preposterious. Because sure, I can whitelist someone, but only after they've successfully, individually *appealed* to me, and 9 out of 10 times, that will unlikely work unless I'm Prokofy Neva jumping up and down and blogging. The average Joe will not be able to do this.

[Economic Mip]

While you make some very good points here (as always) I honestly think the best way to keep roads around is to focus on the "Ocean Sims" these are protected areas of water, and currently they are all empty regions which can hold up to 15,000 items. Why aren't these low prim areas? Why are the new continents all one or two sims apart?

I wish a banlist would work, but it will only be abused. Of course, few people have visited 10% of the grid or more, so for many it won't matter if they are banned by Angel Fluffy, as there are 10,000 other regions they can explore.

[Ace Albion]

How would a Governor Linden banlist work, anyway?

Is it just an alternative from banning people from SL? I mean to end up on it, you'd have to be chosen by a Linden to go on it, I assume. Are they going to hold regular panels or have feedback forms for estate owners to recommend avatars for the list?

[Cocoanut Koala]

I just this minute had a sudden realization!

They GOM'd Gom, and got oodles of money!

So - there is probably money in this new banning system! (Or sinks, anyway.) You'll probably have to pay to use it, somehow.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

My understanding is that you're not to be banned from SL on this banned list, just from the mainland. So you're free to buy an island, or rent a parcel, or knock around public sandboxes on islands, I guess, not sure.

I find it hard to believe that island owners, who are more obsessed with security, won't grab the Gov Linden list and add it to theirs.

I heard from Zee Linden today that they would plan more sinks like enabling payment of tier with Lindens, but not with more fees like texture uploads. We'll see.

I urged them to have appeals to the list, yes, I imagine Lindens would pick you, and who knows, their criteria could be better or worse than the average land baron.

All in all, troublesome.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Troublesome, to say the least!

I just can't get OVER that the Lindens would be this mean to their own customers.

And don't anybody try to tell me that it isn't.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

To me, it flies in the face of their claim to be "turning over the grid to residents". If they are maintaining a master ban list of people that they expect to somehow still remain in SL, who aren't SUCH griefers that they shouldn't be expelled, then what does that say about their taking a tighter rein over the mainland? it's nuts.

I also wonder how they could granulate it, which residents will surely do better. For example, it would be good if they could ban some of these infohub/welcome area griefers out of those areas. There's a certain type of juvenile and stupid little griefing posse that hangs out and becomes "regs" an infohubs, caging, annoying, running sound clips, etc. The Lindens eject them for 3 days even, they come back and fester more. So sure, if they can ban those people from WAs, good. But why ban them from the entirety of SL when their behaviour doesn't amount to serious TOS violations?

Perhaps they imagine these griefing kiddies will give up and leave SL if they are on the blacklist.

[Ace Albion]

That's what I don't get. Like they're saying "OK, if you want to be a griefing idiot, that's fine, you can hang out on your $300/month griefer's island with your griefer friends."

Except they shut down Woodbury for letting the resident-griefers there crash the sim (amongst other offences).

What does that leave? People who say "Fuck" in PG?

If they're going to have some list for people who are too awful for the mainland, wouldn't they have an estate ban on them? Why this parcel based messing around?

Unless it's going to be relatively easy to be a victim of the Linden Ban list, for what you might expect to be trivial offences, it doesn't make any sense.

That's what worries me, that and Chadrick pulling the Ashcroft stunt of just saying "You don't know, and I'm not telling, so you can't argue against anything I think of."

[Prokofy Neva]

Of course Chadrick is pulling that, and that's my point of being annoyed in the first place. He chastises us for commenting something we don't have the full information on, as if that's our fault. It's not; it's his fault, and it's a hideous system that would cause him to think he had to hide this information for proprietary reasons. Sick.

No justification whatsoever.

When I drilled him on this at the office hour a few weeks ago, it seemed that he was saying that if someone ponied up money to buy an island, they'd be left alone. Don't forget, he'll have in place his marvelous system to let them get abuse reports on themselves...and never report them off the island further.So I guess he sees the day when PG-swearers or even miscreants and hate-speechifiers will buy islands and do their thing without the Lab's interference.

[Ace Albion]

That will be interesting so long as Linden Lab hosts their content, and is held legally accountable for it.

In one sense this could be almost like some kind of pressure from Linden Lab- as if they're saying "We're not going to stop dangerous and malicious idiots from logging into SL. If you want any meagre protection from them at all, you'll have to join up to our big ban list." Or maybe "subscribe" would be a better word for it. Just wondering...

[Prokofy Neva]

Good to review this old post, and see, hilariously, how people savaged me for the idea of selling Linden roads.

When I, of course, meant--and explained as such from the get-go -- that selling the infrastructure land was merely selling land for prims while keeping the builds on them. I figured people could buy their sims roads and keep them up. They could do that by buying land permanently set to no-build, so that they'd not have the ability to mess it up. Sure, they could remove it, but most people wouldn't. Most people are good citizens when given a framework within which to be good citizens.

So now what's going to happen is even worse than any of these fanboyz accused me of plotting (!).

It will involve the Lindens putting their prison work crew for $10/hour to work building them land with roads on it that they will sell outright to residents who can delete the roads at will.

Now, they may have in mind keeping some land Governor Linden with roads. But their plan to build infrastructure and sell it is really far less public-minded than mine. Their plan is about rewarding their friends with burnishing of their resumes, selling parcels at a higher price, and claiming they've solved a public need.

My plan would have really addressed the roads problem by insisting that it be placed where it was due.

[Prokofy Neva]

Good to review this old post, and see, hilariously, how people savaged me for the idea of selling Linden roads.

When I, of course, meant--and explained as such from the get-go -- that selling the infrastructure land was merely selling land for prims while keeping the builds on them. I figured people could buy their sims roads and keep them up. They could do that by buying land permanently set to no-build, so that they'd not have the ability to mess it up. Sure, they could remove it, but most people wouldn't. Most people are good citizens when given a framework within which to be good citizens.

So now what's going to happen is even worse than any of these fanboyz accused me of plotting (!).

It will involve the Lindens putting their prison work crew for $10/hour to work building them land with roads on it that they will sell outright to residents who can delete the roads at will.

Now, they may have in mind keeping some land Governor Linden with roads. But their plan to build infrastructure and sell it is really far less public-minded than mine. Their plan is about rewarding their friends with burnishing of their resumes, selling parcels at a higher price, and claiming they've solved a public need.

My plan would have really addressed the roads problem by insisting that it be placed where it was due.