LINDENS DENY GRID-WIDE DENIAL OF SERVICE ATTACK

I tried filing a report in real time to the much-vaunted CNN i-Report website while this meeting was going on, but I suppose the posts are held somewhere and scrubbed. The news on the site is still completely retarded and lame -- hypervents, corporate drivel, happy-sounding resident mindlessness.

Meanwhile, I attend the Governance Team's daily office hour at 10 am to see if we are getting any traction with this awful chronic griefing in Second Life. It's just appalling -- racist, nasty, anti-Semitic spam, hateful anti-furry stuff, all the worst the Patriotic Nigrahs and their spin-off groups from Woodbury University and the b/tards and W-hat have to offer -- paralyzing literally thousands of sims and thousands of avatars this weekend. And nary a word from Linden Lab. No blog. And no plan of action. And not even an *acknowledgement* that what we are undergoing here is a DENIAL OF SERVICE ATTACK.

As always, these sessions are made even more painful by the presence of these horridly smug fanboyz do-gooders, who are always head-patted by the Lindens in the most nauseating ways. Look at this tool with his 15 years of community service telling us that our petitions aren't fresh enough, and we need to scamper around and make new ones. Sorry, but you can shove it up your ass bud. I have hundreds of signatures -- they are called "my trouble tickets" and "my tenants anguished pleas in my group". Master Quatro has thousands more. It's insane that we'd be forced into a humble petition-gathering mode with these idiots at LL, when they can read their own goddamn abuse reports, for starters -- that IS a petition of those who managed to log on to those who govern.

Azzu Manga, administrator of Woodbury University group in SL, griefing Ravenglass from Governor Linden land, carrying a hand puppet with the hover text "Do you liek mudlips?" representing Patriotic Nigrah leader Mudkips who goes by a number of variants of this name. The nun avatar he is wearing is exactly like that worn constantly by Alyx Stoklitsky of the b/tards and Tizzers Foxchanse.

Katar Supercharge: hello
Tengu Yamabushi: Hello :)
Katar Supercharge: going to be another fun filled morning ;)
Katar Supercharge: hello Zara
Zara Linden: hello katar :)
Zara Linden: how are you today?
Katar Supercharge: good, you?
Zara Linden: great
Katar Supercharge: so whats todays agenda? :)
Zara Linden: it looks like a small crowd
Zara Linden: so let's just open the floor for questions
Katar Supercharge: Pierce and Aree are working through the meeting today
Zara Linden: oic
Zara Linden: it's hard for everyone to be here every day...that's understandable
Zara Linden: hi prok
You: Hi
You: Do you have any comments on the grid-wide attack from griefers over the weekend?
You: and what you are doing to address this recurring issue at the root? in the groups? Where it counts?
Destiny Niles: Hello all
There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
Katar Supercharge: hello Destiny, Brenda
Destiny Niles kicks the bench to get it to work
Destiny Niles: Zara has the Linden only sign out for her set
You: Maybe when people arrive at these meetings in business suits instead of costumes and have names like Ciscosystems or Google you will get at it more seriously?
Zara Linden: the grid wide attacks are a big concern for us
Master Quatro: are they ??
Zara Linden: we are doing everything possible to prevent these kind of attacks in the future
Master Quatro: we must have better estate tools
You: Why aren't you closing the b/tard and Woodbury groups that they use to recruit?
Zara Linden: what suggestions do you have master?
Master Quatro: Lindens cannot respond effectively .. we must be able to return all objects of griefers
Master Quatro: we have over 600 sims
Master Quatro: can you imagine ?
Master Quatro: give us tools
Zara Linden: we are working on better solutions
You: I have land on only 60 sims, and it still takes me hours and I'm on the mainland where Linden land itself and no-show neighbours without autoreturn make anything I do pointless.
Master Quatro: we know we can't depend on Linden Lab at 2 AM slt
Telematics Raymaker is Offline
Master Quatro: so give us the tools to precent the racial abuse .. gender abuse
Master Quatro: ethnic abuse
You: anti-Semitism
Master Quatro: you are an accessory to it as long as nothing is done about it
You: You could be posting condemnation of these things on the blog.
JW Singer: Are you asking for tools for chat violations, objects, both?
You: You never do, you think silence is what is needed to make it from getting worse. But like silence is surrender.
Master Quatro: you aid and abbet the griefers by allowing them to continue to have 100 + accounts
Zara Linden: currently the g-team collaborates with the developers to blacklist objects and we hope to make these tools available for more efficiency with direct use on the g-team
Master Quatro: please help us
Master Quatro: we need your help
You: You aid and abet the griefers by allowing them to maintain groups like Woodbury University, the b/tards, the Prokofy Fan Club (not!) where all the obvious griefer mains and even alts recruit and taunt everybody with impunity.
Onder Skall: Sorry, maybe I'm too much of a newb but... g-team?
katykiwi Moonflower: we need tools where estate managers can return all items belonging to one owners name all at the same time without locating them individually
You: Governance team
Destiny Niles: Can an estate base blacklist tool be develop?
Master Quatro: companies like IBM subjected to these types of verbal attacks will noy think it's worth the liability
Onder Skall: Thanks
You: right now you can return only all *scripted* items
Master Quatro: we need help
Master Quatro: help us
Adeel Cave: My problem is diffrent
Zara Linden: i think it is pretty clear we don't allow intolerance or mass particle spam...posting on the blog wouldn't prevent these kind of attacks
You: and this is risky, you risk often returning the entire island's set of scripted items, it needes to be granulated or the UI fixed to lessen mistakes
Master Quatro: the time to discuss is over
You: Zara, you need to CONDEMN IT
You: my God, that should be obvious
Master Quatro: last night's attack was disgusting
You: by saying NOTHING you are colluding
Onder Skall: Is this the only job the g-team has, or is it one among many?
You: it was absolutely unacceptable
Master Quatro: of course you are in collusion
Master Quatro: you control access
You: I have dozens of tenants crying to me that there are griefers shouting stuff like Suck my cock Nigger Lindens
You: can you not condemn this? it's racism!
You: it's wrong!
katykiwi Moonflower: they are kids
Movies1963 Beck: silence is equal to the "night of broken glass" in 1938
Master Quatro: I will ask all 2000 residents of Dreamland to keep Emailing philip and jeska
You: no,t hey are adults organized in a conspiracy, they are not kids
You: kids are merely the foot soldiers to these very well organized international movements
Master Quatro: daily if I have to
Adeel Cave: I thought a Linden would be here
Master Quatro: we need help
Zara Linden: the g-team handles a wide range of abuse issues. michael is primarily working with developers on improvement of tools
You: that in some countries like Germany, have been banned by ISPs
Master Quatro: people are furious
Master Quatro: our clients want to leave
Wrestling Hulka is Online
You: You don't need to invent a single tool, Zara: you can condemn it in a single two-paragraph blog post so that the community understands that you know right from wrong.
You: Otherwise, you are colluding.
Jingyi Davies: yepie
Master Quatro: stop this BS with the Gteam .. we need the philip team to set priorites
Adeel Cave: I would like to know how the bloody hell we can get help when we have problems with SL
Master Quatro: our residents and clients are fed up
Jingyi Davies: where is Micheal?
You: you can file a trouble ticket on the website Adeel, they have gotten a lot better at responding to easier problems
Onder Skall: So what kind of resources are given to the g-team to handle the issue? What's the size of the staff, etc? Are they primarily programmers or administrators?
Adeel Cave: BULL
Onder Skall: sorry if that was too many questions at once...
Adeel Cave: that is a fricking JOKE
You: Onder they are administrators and there are like 4 or them or so but that's not the issue
Adeel Cave: I sent a ticket to em twice
Movies1963 Beck: Zara silence is the equal to "the night of broken glass" in Germany in 1938, please do not let history repeat it's self especially in SecondLife
You: well don't take up the meeting with one person's problem, use the ticket system, they will not answer on one issue at these meetings anyway
You: it's mroe for generic issues
Onder Skall: Prokofy: well if they're the ones that handle the issue, and there are only4, and they are only admins, I would say that WAS the issue.
Adeel Cave: Well, other people have the same issue
Jingyi Davies: ? are we the jews?
Master Quatro: where were you Zara last night when hundreds of sims were attacked with religious .. ethnic .. racial .. slurs were spammed to all residents
You: Onder, they buck many complex issues to the Community Team, which is "designing the tools" -- but I'm not sure those people have programmers either
Adeel Cave: My problem is this:
You: Programmers are a law unto themselves, in a coders' cave unto themselves, and have absolutely no relationship or responsibility to the community.
You: These people are running interface with those arrogant, insolent, and indifferent coders.
Zara Linden: we have the Abuse Tracker system that shows abuse reports and the g-team handles the issues according to how widespread or important each issue is.
You: Who are themselves if not friends with these griefers, don't find anything wrong with them -- and actually Michael Linden included
Adeel Cave: I have problems logging in as Adeel, at the point where it is "Loading" after the "clothing is downloading" message. I do NOT have that prob with the alts I have
Master Quatro: Philip knows the problem .. it's the IPs that allow hundreds of accounts .. turn them off
Zara Linden: we have staff working on abuse issues 24/7.
Adeel Cave: I sent two tickets to them
Adeel Cave: and they do NOT understand my problem
Jingyi Davies: oh those flying thingies particals? in the weekend
Adeel Cave: the second ticket I sent was not even responded to
Master Quatro: griefing is no longer an abuse report issue .. it's gone well beyond that .. it is offensive to many individuals .. and real companies will stop doing business here
Jingyi Davies: It is a terrorist attack
Master Quatro: anyway
Jingyi Davies: must call the FBI or interpool
Master Quatro: Zara please pass on these comments up to your supervisor .. and up from there I hope
Master Quatro: I realize you are here taking abuse from us
Master Quatro: you don't deserve it .. but you are the messenger ..
Zara Linden: we are very clear in our ToS that these kind of attacks are not tolerated.
Allana Dion: I think using the word terrorist is a bit extreme but I agree there are certain types of griefing that should be handled seperately and more firmly than the common abuse reports
Jingyi Davies: at least she get paid : ) hehe
Zara Linden: our suspension letters express that this behavior is not acceptable
Arbitrage Wise is Online
Master Quatro: so why do you tolerate them ????
Adeel Cave: I completely uninstalled SL and every file related to SL, cleared cache, uploaded my video driver, and I STILL have problems for hrs at a time. getting on SL on Adeel Cave alone. No probs. with the others
Jingyi Davies: It is terrorism , if those partical thingies flyingeverywhere in several sims
Incredible Tomorrow is Online
Zara Linden: i will speak with michael about posting on the blog..but i don't think it will prevent anything.
Master Quatro: give us tools
Onder Skall: So the Abuse Tracker is used to track stuff on-the-fly... is that correct? Is there ever any post-analysis of it to track patterns, etc?
Master Quatro: we need to be able to return all objects
Allana Dion: no Jingyi, terrorism kills people and we make ourselves look silly by comparing it, it is however criminal behavior and not common griefing
Katar Supercharge: thank you Allana :)
Jingyi Davies: it is silly to say terrorism kill people
Socrates Linden: Hi everyone.
Zara Linden: we are able to track abuse issues for the past 24 hours
Katar Supercharge: hello Socrates
Master Quatro: have you seen the language used to describe blacks .. jews .. gays etc ...
Jingyi Davies: it does damage in a large scale
Zara Linden: hi socrates
Allana Dion lets it go
Onder Skall: Zara - what happens to that data after 24hrs? Is it flushed?
Master Quatro: if the only thing LL will undertstand is a class action suit
Zara Linden: the data doesn't remain on Atracker- but is still accessible in our system
Reuben Millionsofus is Offline
January Bauhaus is Offline
Khamon Fate is Online
Zara Linden: every abuse report filed is retained for the life and beyond for each resident
JW Singer: Is there someone on the Gteam handling the metrics / statistics of such data?
Master Quatro: after all these months .. Linden Lab has not even begun to deal with the griefing
Socrates Linden: That would be me JW.
Onder Skall: oh good ok... but, and I'm not entirely certain I'm understanding correctly so PLEASE correct me if I'm off here, are there staff members going over the retained data and working out strategies?
Allana Dion: so Zara, how reasonable is it to consider seperating the abuse report system into levels, such as reporting standard abuse and a seperate way to report emergency situations that need immediate resolution?
Zara Linden: yes, socrates is our data guy
Onder Skall: It doesn't sound like it...
Socrates Linden: Master that isn't true
Jingyi Davies: everyone is now afraid and pissed off by those flying thingies.. it has similair effect to us as the RL terrorism
Master Quatro: last night proved it
Master Quatro: you have done NOTHING
Master Quatro: nothing has changed
Zara Linden: well, an emergency is evaluated based on the number of reports received and what those reports contain
Malburns Writer is Online
Master Quatro: the same individual can change into 12 different accounts and grief hundreds of sims
Jingyi Davies: see
Master Quatro: in an hour
Jingyi Davies: just like a real terrorist will do
Master Quatro: so how can you say it's not true
Jingyi Davies: hit and run tactic
Zara Linden: what someone considers an emergency may actually be inflated..we look at all the evidence carefully in each report- but certainly pay attention if there are multiple reports on one person by many residents
Socrates Linden: Master I'd agree that we have not doen what you personally have wanted but would nto agree that we have not doen anything.
Tommy Parrott: As long as there are free accounts; there will be free griefing :(
Allana Dion: yes but there needs to be some way the community can know that certain situations will be responded to immediate, not three days after a dozen reports are seen
Socrates Linden: does anyone have a question btw?
Master Quatro: have you seen the racial slurs ?
Socrates Linden: Yes MAster we have.
June Cela is Online
Master Quatro: yes .. when will you help us
katykiwi Moonflower: often reports cant be made when a sim is clogged and you cant move and lock up, by the time you get back in the griefer names are lost
Telematics Raymaker is Online
Master Quatro: then you know how bad it has gotten
Onder Skall: Zara - that's very reasonable from an emergency-response perspective, but from a planning and forward-thinking perspective it isn't addressing anything... and I think that's the perspective people are concerned about just now.
Katar Supercharge: Master, what sort of permissions do you have set on your sims?
Zara Linden: sorry, JW. got tired of sitting :)
Jingyi Davies: Have LL contacted the authority about these cyber terrorism?
Master Quatro: Socrates this is not personal .. but please understand our frustration
JW Singer: lol, no problem.
Master Quatro: our sims .. land is sold to hundreds of clients .. almost 20000
Master Quatro: 20000
Master Quatro: 2000
Master Quatro: ackkkk
Jingyi Davies: ?
JW Singer: Yes, perhaps the purpose of this meeting should be defined.. because without solutions.. it's a vent fest ;-)
Master Quatro: I needed to vent
Jingyi Davies: Did LL contact the Authority ????
JW Singer: and there's good reason to "vent"... I'm just saying.. hopefully they're working on solutions from hearing your concerns.
Master Quatro: I spent 4 hours in the middle of my night responding to massive griefer attacks all over Dreamland .. the largest continent in SL outside the mainland
JW Singer: Is there a blog devoted to the G-Team issues?
Master Quatro: I'm tired
Katar Supercharge: Master, is there a way your clients can join a group so you can restrict permissions to justthem?
Master Quatro: and it's been happening over and over
Wrestling Hulka is Offline
Onder Skall: I suppose the question becomes: how is Linden Lab pro-actively tackling this issue? Are emergency response procedures being tweaked, etc?
JW Singer: A focus group for improving estate tools .. for instance?
Movies1963 Beck: Socrates grieffing is breaking Federal law via stalking when it's clear that a person or persons are the deliberat target of these stalkers called griefers
Master Quatro: have you ever tried to corral almost 2000 on-line residents ?
Jingyi Davies: !!
Jingyi Davies: see !!
You: Onder, you're the first to complain as my tenant when you are bombarded with racist spam that paralyzes your Second Life. Can you grasp that we're asking for a very concrete set of things here that aren't about bureaucratic procedures like a call center. We're asking for a) estate tools that ban groups and b) given that the mainland has NO estate tools, asking the Lindens to make a POLICY of freezing the known griefing groups that have thousands of alts and mains in them well documented as frequent flyer griefers.
Master Quatro: I have sent multiple notices .. they want the freedom to use their land as they see fit
Master Quatro: and not be attacked
Jingyi Davies: LL should contact the US authority !! to get those criminles!
Jingyi Davies: or interpol
You: I mean you can analyze the Lindens' management structure til the cows come home but we need them to exercise political will here, not move around the organagram.
Zara Linden: there isn't currently a blog for g-team issue...we hope this area will serve as way to educate everyone on what g-team does and provide metrics, etc. come back for notecards, signage, and more notecards soon!! :)
Tommy Parrott: I would like to know what the deal is with this;
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=377230
Can anyone tell me how this is available to all resis?
JW Singer: Perhaps being more transparent about what is in the works would be helpful.. I realize that putting such information out there could also aid "griefers" so you have to be careful.
Eric Reuters is Online
Tommy Parrott: one great griefing tool :(
Master Quatro: I'm done venting
You: Zara, can you tell us what happened to the alleged FBI case you started in December 2005? These *same people* are still committing these denial-of-service attacks. Why are you not seeking testimony from victims like ourselvs? Where is that case at? Why haven't we heard a thing about it for more than a year? Can you realize that this sort of case is precisely what is needed as a deterrent?
Master Quatro: thank you
Master Quatro: but I'm begging for help
Master Quatro: please help us
Socrates Linden: Onder, our initial response is sstreamlining the Abuse Reports on our side, we hope to extend this to your side as well.
Jingyi Davies: We need FBI and CIA to track those griefers down
You: some of these people originally identified in the 2005 case with the FBI came to SLCC -- their RL names are known, they are absolutely known quantities with known locations and phone numbers. Where were the process-servers at SLCC? why didn't Lindens serve them notice there if they claim not to have resources to track them into their home states or countries?
Bub Linden is Online
JW Singer: Quatro - have you started a petition? I read you said you were writing to the Lindens daily. Is there an organized petition in your community?
You: Tools can only fix so much. political will is required here.
katykiwi Moonflower: abuse reports without proper tools are useless, and these griefers create another free account and are back in ASAP
Onder Skall: Socrates - people are asking for some pretty specific tools from the sounds of it. Are there reasons NOT to provide them?
Master Quatro: if i could have returned each griefer's objects and scripts all over the sims I'm responsible for .. we couls have had calm in a matter of minutes
katykiwi Moonflower: master: do you know michael linden thinks we already can do that?
Destiny Niles: what are the pjira requests?
Master Quatro: give us the tools to return all objects belonging to an avatar all over the estate we own
You: JWSinger are you nuts? We've sent hundreds of petitions over the last 2 years, get real, this is not about forcing us to do something and scramble around collecting signatures -- do you want me to turn out every tenant I have online on these sims right now? What will that prove? Master Quatro could do the same thing? Will that "send a message"?
Master Quatro: or manage
Tommy Parrott: I cant understand how that tol is allowed in world; the ability to NOT remove someones stuff off of your land is crazy...
Master Quatro: that's a great start
You: What is needed is their political will to change the conditions for the people who pay 80 percent of their bottom line, not us scampering around making petitions.
Master Quatro: off the entire estate
JW Singer: Prok - that was then.. this is now. You can't rely on the past to produce results.
katykiwi Moonflower: tommy: if that tool works its very bad
Allana Dion nods ... the mainland definately needs to have the same estate tools an island has, why is that not possible to do?
Master Quatro: we can set individuals on an estate wide ban list
Tommy Parrott: It does
Tommy Parrott: :(
Master Quatro: why not return their obkects
Master Quatro: objects
Tommy Parrott:
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=377230
You: Um, no, that's completely retarded JW, the onus is on them to create a viable platform without the obvious griefers they could have served notice to at SLCC, and whose groups they could freeze shut this minute if they get over their insolent hacker mentality
Tommy Parrott: that thing prevents it
Socrates Linden: while these are all great ideas, I'm not a developer, nor am I able to know what technical reasons we may have to not implement them. But if anyone has a PJIRA link I can take a look.
Jingyi Davies: tool tool.. those wont stop the griefers.. they will consider it as changlenge and grief us time over time.. untill they are jailed..
Master Quatro: let's start with a simple tool
Master Quatro: one tool
Jingyi Davies: a simple lock wont prevent the thief to steal /. pick the lock : ) he only enjoin the stealing more
Tengu Yamabushi: 'Little Johnny peering out from behind bars, on the cover of the New York Post' - that would be a very effective tool.
Tommy Parrott: ;)
Khamon Fate: Let's start with inworld Lindens we can contact when we have a problem, ones we know are available and responisible for our area at that time of day.
katykiwi Moonflower: as long as these kids can create another free account without having to provide any info they are back in and at it again no matter how many AR we file
Onder Skall: I see... so people are asking for a technical fix and you're not technical so can't respond. That's unfortunate... now I'm getting a vibe here that people don't love the Jira. Other than the Jira, are there any OTHER ways to get these tools requested?
Khamon Fate: I really hate to impose the idea of scheduled responsibility on employees of Linden Lab but that's what we need.
Tommy Parrott: me /agrees with katykiwi
Jingyi Davies: beter use the tool we get -> call the authority . dial their number
Socrates Linden: Onder LL is very Jira-centric....
Allana Dion nods in agreement with Khamon
Zara Linden: indeed, we love Jira.
katykiwi Moonflower: jira is impossible to understand
Tommy Parrott: for most
Onder Skall: Socrates - so are you saying that this conversation is moot?
Socrates Linden: It' not impossible, but it's very costomized per person
Onder Skall: Sorry I don't mean to be so blunt but...
Zara Linden: really katykiwi? i think it just takes a little time
Socrates Linden: that is, per company
Tengu Yamabushi: If someone uses the phone lines to harass/stalk/abuse someone, when you contact the phone company they don't tell you to 'submit a bug report'.
Jingyi Davies: it is madness to stop a joyrider by youself.. you call the cops
Socrates Linden: As far as getting an idea together for a tool and getting into jira, breaking it down helps these eget defined and grow.
katykiwi Moonflower: there used to be a zero tolerance policy against racial or semetic related griefiing , did that policy change
JW Singer: My point is there have been numerous staffing changes within the Linden Lab organization. For instance, this is the first month the G-Team is interacting in a forum. That didn't happen in the past (that I'm aware).. so there's change about.. so if you have petitions from the past that are still unadressed .. file them again.
Tommy Parrott: Resis need accountability; not the ability for simply poof off and recreate another alt that is untraceable...
Tengu Yamabushi: 'Submit a bug report' is not a response 'The Grid Company' should be making under these circumstances.
Socrates Linden: The GTeam itself was a big step for us
You: ∙JW you are out of your *frigging*b mind
Jingyi Davies: a criminle can change his pasport and continue his crimes elseway with new id
You: do you own property? do you have customers? or are you here to spout nonsense?
You: We file petitions constantly -- petitions don't work with insolent,c rude, indifferent hackers
Onder Skall: Socrates - sorry, can you give me the actual hard numbers on the GTeam? Size, date of formation, etc?
You: they only understand force from their customers paying their salaries
Tengu Yamabushi: If LL is a platform provider, and if laws are being broken, then that should be the venue for response.
Zara Linden: accounts are not untraceable- but limiting the ability to create multiple accounts is a tough call
Socrates Linden: We started around.... *turns to Zara.... April?
Jingyi Davies: man.. a beter metal detector wont be a good use if you cant catch the criminel
You: This is a denial of service attack where thousands of sims and thousands of avatars are unable to function. That is a real life *crime*. This requires an FBI case. That means the Lindens need to reactivate it very publicly
Master Quatro: thank you for listening
Adeel Cave: They should go back to paying 9.95 per account
Tommy Parrott: yes
Master Quatro: even some nominal amount
katykiwi Moonflower: adeel: when we had to pay for accounts we did not have this problem
Adeel Cave: I had to do that with Adeel, as I didn't remmeber the spelling on my first one
Master Quatro: good point
Allana Dion: yes Adeel, I agree
Allana Dion: hell 1$ even
Tommy Parrott: nope; one the floodgates were opened; these grief attacks began ;)
Jingyi Davies: lol
Coyote Montale is Online
Master Quatro: that will mean verification
Jingyi Davies: rais e shields! lol red alert !
JW Singer: Prok I don't work for Linden Lab but I have over 15 yrs experience in community management. I'm just making suggestions based on experience.
Larry Pixel is Online
Master Quatro: and LL won't do that
You: Zara, you don't have to approach it from the untraceable accounts like WutWut Fogarty. You can go in Woodbury University, note that certain avatars there constantly use the expression "wut wut" and trace THEM. They are known quantities. If you could monitor these known obvious recruiting and sympathizer groups, you will finally catch them in the act *like we do on our land* and *move against them finally*.
Zara Linden: we appreciate the suggestions, JW
katykiwi Moonflower: having to provide legitimate credit card and name info thats really verified even, these group islands dont even require a name to create an accont
You: This isn't rocket science, it's ordinary security work.
Adeel Cave: I think also we should not have a "list of names" to pick from. But they shouldn't allow offensive names like Jack Off
Jingyi Davies: LL isnt qualify to do the detective work ... then should call the professionals...
Tommy Parrott: yup
Jingyi Davies: CSI
You: Um JW your suggestions are not welcome, your experience is irrelevant to a land-based 3-d interactive *world* that is not a frigging "online community" and I'll thank you to note that and stop sounding so frigging smug
Jingyi Davies: we need CSI and a lot
katykiwi Moonflower: SL has become a ban line, no build shut down mode world because of these free accounts
You: everybody here has 15 years experience in something
JW Singer: I know how frustrating it is to not have the tools to feel empowered.. that's why I was asking if there's any focus groups established?
Tommy Parrott: With 400 sims; someone at CSI should be able to figure this out! LOL
Khamon Fate: Adeel the Nazi spam boxes that attacked Slate yesterday were owned by Iamagriefer McSomethingorother
Jingyi Davies: I have 15 years experience in watching TV
Allana Dion laughs
Zara Linden: we don't allow offensive names...the filtering system needs to improve so names don't get approved on signup...but, we do hold an account and change names if they are offensive
Jingyi Davies: lol
Lincoln Beck smiles
Master Quatro: one of the groups being offended continuoasly just has to bring a class action suit .. against LL for aiding and abetting in the abuse .. by allowing griefers a free reign
katykiwi Moonflower: khamon: and even if that account is banned he will be back with all the nazi stuff on another free account
You: I can run circles around your 15 years of community management. I have thousands of real tenants *here and now* who are suffering what on a website would be called "a denial of service attack" and would be reported as such; would engender a case to the FBI, and would have *publicity" in the media if not on the corporate website. Hello?
You: Master Quatro has many thousands more even MORE affected
Allana Dion: most people don't really have the means to do that Quatro unfortunately
You: Imagine if 1,000 websites in real life suffered a DNS like we suffer them here
You: hello?
Allana Dion: not that it's not a reasonable idea, just saying
You: what does it take to concentrate the tiny minds wonderfully?????
katykiwi Moonflower: what if the free accounts had restrictions placed on them such as no build etc
Khamon Fate: True Katy, what I need is to know that a posted Linden is on duty to handle those kind of situations 24/7 just like any other estate management team has.
Tommy Parrott: inv. limitations
Tommy Parrott: making them WANT to become premium
Zara Linden: hmm, interesting idea katy
Socrates Linden: katywiki, all suggestions are on the table.
Onder Skall: There's a question: has Linden Lab ever considered legal action? Or would that be up to the residents?
Khamon Fate: The Mainland is Linden Lab's estate. It's time they took lessons from effective estate managers.
Jingyi Davies: It goes more than LL or SL .. it is a fundamental issue. cyber criminel cant be stop with a tool or something tool.. must get them in RL
Master Quatro: all it takes is one attorney whose religion, racial or ehnic background has been smeared here with the tacit collaboration of Linden lab
You: You know, Zara, I wish Linden Lab experienced these hundreds of US dollars in losses every month that I experience, or the thousands that Master Quatro experiences, with customers refunding and logging off. If you felt that pinch, you'd be more motivated.
Master Quatro: and that will resolve it
Katar Supercharge: good luck with legal action.. i know a coupl people who were harrassed from SL into RL, the local law didnt or couldnt do much
You: You are shielded from these real results on business by having us as a buffer.
Jingyi Davies: indeed.
You: It's pretty outrageous.
Khamon Fate: Well, or sold these continents off to people who *will* manage them properly.
katykiwi Moonflower: restrictions on free account activity would benefit the membership by reducing greifing and benefit LL financially as well if the free accounts have motive to pay for premium
Jingyi Davies: if LL cant solve it , the economy in SL will crash..
Tommy Parrott agrees with katykiwi
Zara Linden: i think it is farfetched to state we are collaborating in the attacks. that is incorrect.
Jingyi Davies: no you are no..
You: What's being asked of you doesn't require one damn insolent hacker coder -- they are the problem, not the solution. It requires your grown-up administrative top-executive political will, and a call to the FBI.
Master Quatro: of course you are.. you are allowing the griefers in here .. you are opening the doors and invitinf them in
Jingyi Davies: just you should report it to the federal law inforcement something in the US
You: Do *we* have to start a class action suit and join you by name and do WE have to call the FBI? Is that your answer?
Allana Dion: no not collaborating but you really do have to consider some new methods of management simply out of respect for your platform and your clientelle
Master Quatro: of course you are collaborators .. if only by your silence
Khamon Fate: You're so cute when you talk business Prokofy
katykiwi Moonflower: i really think there is a simpler solution than relying upon law enforcement and it lies with greater estate manager tools as well as some rein on the free account activities
Zara Linden: if silence was in effect, socrates and I wouldn't be here
Lewis Nerd: you can't curtail griefers without curtailing the freedom of honest users
You: I've often found you to be completely counterproductive and deliberately contrarian in these meetings, Khamon, when you know full well these are real issues, and guess what, you're *not* cute when you do that.
Socrates Linden: Actually Prokofy, we always encourage people to contact people in RL once it becomes a "RL" issue
Master Quatro: alright
Socrates Linden: Such as the case when people want to AR someone for comments posted on a blog.
Master Quatro: I have work to do
katykiwi Moonflower: lewis: what do you think about some restrictions on free account activity and not allowing full use of all tools such as building unless they become premium
You: Perhaps you can be as assiduous in finding WutWut Fogarty's typist as you are in finding Rase Kenzo?!
Master Quatro: have a great day/evening everyone
Khamon Fate: Zara has a point, we should stop typing long enough for them to tell us what plans they are enacting to support us.
Jingyi Davies: My sugestion is that the griefing thing goes way beyond the ordinairy abuse/ neighbour fights..
Lewis Nerd: support that totally katy
Master Quatro: thank you for the opportunity to be heard
Adeel Cave: NO
Adeel Cave: I oppose the building restrictions
Zara Linden: absolutely, RL abuse is taken very seriously.
Master Quatro: philip@lindenlab.com btw
Lewis Nerd: then simply verify yourself, adeel... then you can do all you want
Lewis Nerd: emailing philip wont do a thing
Zara Linden: thank you for coming, master. :)
Adeel Cave: there are too many people lik eme who enjoy building.
Lewis Nerd: then pay to play adeel... no problem
Tommy Parrott: yup
Elwood Abernathy: restrict building on free accounts except for those who have permissions on group land, I have many tenants who have free accounts
Jingyi Davies: Building is cool
katykiwi Moonflower: adeel: for the small cost of a premuim account you can build
Adeel Cave: and are on a very fixed income
Khamon Fate: Philip does answer email. It's quite a compelling experience.
Jingyi Davies: I think building is ok
Lewis Nerd: SL is a privilege, not a right... why don't people get that?
Khamon Fate: ha ha ha ha ha compelling
Jingyi Davies: proably restrict in Scripting
Socrates Linden: as far as making Jira more accessable, Torely is always willing ot help
katykiwi Moonflower: lol khamon
Jingyi Davies: scripting is dangerous..
You: Nothing needs to be changed at all in the free accounts: what's needed is for you to pick up the phone, call the FBI, and restart the case, and be very, very public in the media about doing this.
Tommy Parrott: too bad; Disneyland is not free, and millions want to go but cant afford it ;)
Elwood Abernathy: i agree total restrictions in scripting to free accounts
Jingyi Davies: it can lauch thingies like the partical thingies that attacked us
Zara Linden: he does answer a lot of e-mail. but the rest of the Lab is here to interface with residents too...
You: Pro-tip, Socrates, do not put Torley on this
katykiwi Moonflower: luckily SL is not nearly as expensive as disney
Elwood Abernathy: but not building
Jingyi Davies: yes
Jingyi Davies: Building is nice
Lewis Nerd: you can turn off particles... no problem
Jingyi Davies: it cant hurt people
Allana Dion: Perhaps another level, basic free = no build perms, basic with one time fee = equals ability to build without the need to pay monthly for premium
Jingyi Davies: but scripting is dfangerous
You: Get an outside company to design a simple interface for people to report bugs and suggest features: JIRA is for programming teams of likemindedness, nto for a giant international community with hugely diverse levels of knowledge
Onder Skall: Socrates, Zara... you're front-line agents aren't you... handling the irates. Hmm... ok well good luck, hope you find solutions. I g2g. It's been a pleasure.
katykiwi Moonflower: allana: what about restricting the building to public sandboxes for free accounts
Zara Linden: thank you, onder. a pleasure hearing your suggestions.
Jingyi Davies: The Thin Linden Line lol
Allana Dion: that would be reasonable katykiwi
Tommy Parrott: yes
Elwood Abernathy: many tenants have free accounts but they pay weekly rentals into the economy
You: Um, why isn't it a pleasure to hear my suggestions Zara and Socrates? Is it really so hard to dial 1-800-FBI-NOW?
Khamon Fate: Who's hosting Robin's office hour today? Anybody know?
Jingyi Davies: but restrict their scripts...
katykiwi Moonflower: tthen free accounts could build but only within monitored areas such as sandboxes
JW Singer: Prok, perhaps it's your delivery?
Elwood Abernathy: yes restrict scripts
Jingyi Davies: No Funky Attacking particals
Allana Dion: what is so hard about asking someone to pay a one time fee of say 1$ for the right to be able to utilize all the tools?
Elwood Abernathy: or on group owned land that they belong to
RH Engel: what if they set up x amount of sandboxes for the free, to learn to build, however they must go to basic, before coming to the maingrid?
Lewis Nerd: most games have a very limited access time on free pay... even then you have to verify your identity with a credit card... why can't SL be like that?
Zara Linden: it is a pleasure to hear from everyone :) i thought onder was departing...
Adeel Cave: I consider 9.95 to be fair
Socrates Linden: There's a story for every griefer out there, *takes off glasses* but who's writing the scripts? *cue CSI music
You: Um, I'm happy to deliver this as harshly as is needed on behalf of my hundreds of customers who could not log on or use their rented land this weekend, while you were there pontificating JW
katykiwi Moonflower: lewis: yes
Allana Dion: honestly if someone couldn't pay 1$ they wouldn't be on the internet
Tommy Parrott: Sl is the exception to that rule ;)
Jingyi Davies: as long you stop the free account scrpting..
Lewis Nerd: if you can afford a $1000 PC and $50 a month broadband... why can't you pay a one off fee to unlock SL access?
Jingyi Davies: then you can track the paid acc...
Rez Menoptra is Online
Jingyi Davies: : )
Tommy Parrott: yup
Elwood Abernathy: 1 dollar fee would not stop the grieers
You: No Socrates that's as lame as it gets: there is one story: these are small groups: the name of the story is "Woodbury University" and "the b/tards" and "old w-hat members who are Philip Linden' friends" -- a very short and very known story
Jingyi Davies: ehehheh is it so hard to imagine?>
Allana Dion: it would certainly make them easier to track Elwood
Tommy Parrott: ;)
katykiwi Moonflower: allana: agreed, a minimal payment would require a real credit card and some identification and would curtail a lot of the free account griefing
Elwood Abernathy: you have a point there
Khamon Fate: No, I can't complain about free accounts after banging on Philip all those years to implement them so the world would be more Internet like. I'm on the wrong side of that fence I suppose.
Allana Dion: and yes I believe it would limit the griefers
Khamon Fate: Oh, did I type that out loud? doh
Tommy Parrott: LMAO
katykiwi Moonflower: khamon: !!!!!!!
Jingyi Davies: Proably we should vote who will lauche a strike on cyber terrorists lol ->
Khamon Fate: sorry
Socrates Linden: Ok so for today I have the follwoing suggestions. Call the FBI, better estate tools, non-free accounts, limited building for new accounts and .... did I miss any?
You: I don't oppose free accounts either; I don't want to change a single thing about them. There isn't a need to. You ahve to handle this like Stroker handled the DMCA issue: call real life authorities. And LL must do it, because you have the IPs and the information.
katykiwi Moonflower: shame
Jingyi Davies: you missed
Jingyi Davies: restrict scripts for free
Jingyi Davies: that is the best idea so far
Zara Linden: how many of you would have signed up for SL if there was a signup charge??
You: I did
Katar Supercharge: i woldnt have signed up then
RH Engel: I did
Adeel Cave: ::grins;: or be lynched! eyes Kham with a girn::
Tommy Parrott: I did;)
Elwood Abernathy: i paid a month later
Allana Dion: I DID pay Zara
Elwood Abernathy: lol
Allana Dion: 10 bucks
You: but many Latin American and European customers would not and still do not, and that's fine with me
Jingyi Davies: I am playing to move out lol
Adeel Cave: I paid
Destiny Niles: month later for me
Tommy Parrott: two days later
Zara Linden: i think that's the dilemma here. keeping it accessible to everyone.
Elwood Abernathy: i had to check it out first
Socrates Linden: non-free scripts.. gotcha
Jingyi Davies: then you let the terrosit in.. !! yes yes no script !! : ))) thanx man
June Cela is Offline
You: Keep it accessible, and fix the problem at home: fix ;it in your own office, start with Michael Linden's insolent attitude playing dumb about the Prokofy Neva Fan Club being "an admiring group" and call the FBI -- outsource this if you can't handle it
Khamon Fate: I signed up when we paid $14.95 a month
Risa Bright: THere must be some internal way to handle this without the FBI... that seems like it puts LL in the horrid position of legal entanglement that could lead to................who knows what... I was griefed in my sims all weekend, and I would like to see it handled as an LL issue.. first... not escalate immediately to the feds.
Lewis Nerd: you'll never stop griefers... what you can do is ignore them, and they won't get the attention you seek
You: but it's pretty basic police work once you turn off your ideological blinders and stop pretending Woodbury is an educatinoal group and b/tards are a creative scripting group
Khamon Fate: That didn't seem unreasonable to me, still doesn't for an online virtual experience
katykiwi Moonflower: zara: a person who can afford broad band and a PC powerful enough to use SL can afford a minimal payment even if it is the one dollar alana mentioned jsut to get legitimate indentification and screen the kids
Jingyi Davies: no it is impossble
Adeel Cave: Altho , it was because it was because I couldn't remember the spelling of the name I made trying to be here on dialup! LOL
Tengu Yamabushi: Socratese, I have a question for when there's a break in the scroll.
You: Can you *grasp* that what happens to people in Second Life who cannot use their land or log on their avatars is a denial of service attack? that if this happened to a website, the authorities WOULD be called?
Destiny Niles: The FBI haven't stop music downloading so how can they stop griefing?
Jingyi Davies: I actually quite like to be attacked .. but then none will come to my land to buy my thingies or buy my lands.. that I cant tolerate
Khamon Fate: And I *can* agree on imposing restrictions on unverified or free accounts or whatever we're calling them this week
You: that if 1,000 websites from a major group of companies was paralyzed like this, it would be a state if not national issue for the FBI
Jingyi Davies: indeed
Allana Dion nods
katykiwi Moonflower: and if no payment is required of free accounts then restrict their access in some way, tool restriction or where they can build
Adeel Cave: Thanks Prok
You: why is it ok to make us suffer that just because are are avatars and not web pages???
You: why?
Jingyi Davies: \we need FBI and the police in Europe
Lewis Nerd: all you need is more lindens available to respond to these griefer attacks... problem solved.... where do i sign up?
Jingyi Davies: we europeans pay 19% VAT lol that is lot of tax..
Jingyi Davies: call the scotland yard
Adeel Cave: and make the Lindens THE front line support
You: If I became a Meebo browser-based avatar would you treat me better, Linden Lab? Would you take me more seriously than an embedded and immersed avatar on your emulated land on your servers?
Socrates Linden: I'd go ahead and type your qustion, won't be much of a break :-)
Tengu Yamabushi: Socratese: What can you tell us to convince us that LL a) takes this situation seriously, b) understands the impact it has on their customers, and c) that they are determined to do something _effective_, sooner rather than later?
Lewis Nerd: if you want a break... mute prok :)
Zara Linden: hmm, i think it comes to down to the number of users affected. not accurate to compare to 1,000 websites [see, that's the kind of insolent, literalist, asshole tekkie response we can expect from these goddamn Lindens -- of course it's like 1,000 websites because 1,000 sims over a month have thousands of people trafficking on them -- and even if there are only 40, why, that's ok not to call a Denial of Service attack?!--PN].
Tommy Parrott: freebie continent;) Let them grieve themselves! LOL
Jingyi Davies: hmm
Risa Bright: Make screaming turtle cubes a priority...please
Jingyi Davies: maybe it is nice
katykiwi Moonflower: lewis: trouble is when there is a bad attack it cripples the sim, you cant move , you lock up , you cant AR , you cant located the prims or eject, all you can do is log out or watch the sim crash
Jingyi Davies: maybe LL can make different continents..
Zara Linden: we do intend to bring on more g-team members. that will definitely help.
Lewis Nerd: bring back live help :)
Jingyi Davies: like Safe son
You: Lewis Nerd has sold his land and doesn't try to keep customers anymore, so he feels no need to speak on their behalf as I do.
Jingyi Davies: Yellow SOne
Jingyi Davies: and Red sone
Allana Dion: why is it not accurate Zara? If we are conducting business on our land just as a person would do on a website and that business is halted by a denial of service attack, it is the same thing
Lewis Nerd: prok, i still own my land... get your facts straight
You: Zara, does it send the wrong sort of signal if Michael isn't here? is he the head of the G-team?
Lewis Nerd: 8000 sq m thank you
You: You sold off a big chunk hon
You: don't you have me on mute though?
Lewis Nerd: no you arent on mute... never have been...
Jingyi Davies: 8K ? how many L/sqm?
Zara Linden: which, speaking of, socrates and i have a meeting to attend @ 11. we will bring all your suggestions to our colleagues (harry , plexus, and trinity)
katykiwi Moonflower: michael thinks we estate managers can return prims according to member name
Zara Linden: michael is on jury duty. lol.
Socrates Linden: I don't have something to offer to prove that Tengu, GTeam is here to listen and that's our start, I mean, let Trinity get the good chairs done first :-)
Jingyi Davies: ye!!! Thanx man
You: lol indeed
Jingyi Davies: and woman
Trinity Linden: working on them, Socrates :)
Jingyi Davies: we need the A_team ...
Tommy Parrott: not with that new tool; makes it hard
Tengu Yamabushi: Socratese, I'm sorry to hear that.
Socrates Linden: no pressure Trinity
katykiwi Moonflower: can you please tell michael estate managers cannot return that way
Zara Linden: haha, yes, i think if were alll sitting down we could concentrate and come to some great solutions :)
Jingyi Davies: We need Mr T to smash the griefers lol
Socrates Linden: That doesn't mean it isn't true Tengu, but proof is not what I have, just interest in what you all have to say.
Lewis Nerd: i would like to know why 'region owners' get these tools but those who don't own whole regions can just go stew when theres a griefer problem?
You: well jury duty this: Michael Linden insolently replied to me this weekend, when I told him that we cannot return prims by name and cannot block groups that "it's a simple matter for the engineers to do this I'm told" -- so I asked him: then why don't YOU do it as a policy at the top, freeze the obvious groups until the griefing stops -- and he said "there's a big difference between blocking a group with tools and blocking them over similar speech patterns"
Adeel Cave: Throw in Hulk Hogan, and The Hulk!
JW Singer: I agree, Zara. Would you consider a blog for G-Team issues? For those that can't make the in-world meetings?
Jingyi Davies: Yeh!!
Zara Linden: we are happy to be here every day for the time being. glad so many of you are showing up!! in the future, this may be a 2-3 times a week office hours availability.
You: Do a massive global search of all the chat logs which you do indeed retain for the phrase "wut wut" -- just for starters? Just a thought.
katykiwi Moonflower: ever since the inception of free accounts these proposals have been made to curtail the problems related to kids and greifing, and its gotten much worse, we do need some action
Jingyi Davies: lauch a full scale attack on WUt Wut
Tommy Parrott: yes
Jingyi Davies: what is WUTWUT actually?
Socrates Linden: The blog is in the works
You: WutWut Fogarty is the name of this weekend's day-old alt
Zara Linden: yes, i understand katy. we need to look closely at the metrics and see the cause and effect.
Jingyi Davies: I know
Socrates Linden: and we will be doing other hours.
RH Engel: I agree if anything the attacks are more frequent
Jingyi Davies: But I dont undersdtand what wutwut means
Lewis Nerd: the cause is bored idiots with nothing better to do...
Zara Linden: we can't make any flippant judgement calls on how to curtail these problems. we will end up shooting ourselves in the foot :)
katykiwi Moonflower: whatwhat or woot woot wot wot
Jingyi Davies: oh oki..
You: it's also an expression constantly used by Ralewyn of Woodbury and the b/tards -- Ralewyn has in fact been caught griefing and crashing sims and like some of his confreres evidently has had 3 or 14 day holidays -- but the Lindens never connect up the dots and freeze the groups that applaud, recruit and enable this stuff.
Katastrafee Darkstone is Offline
Jingyi Davies: heheh I have not much to do.. lol wut wut lol wut wut attack.. wow if he is caught , he will be famous lol
You: it is totally not rocket science once you drop your ideological blinders
Lewis Nerd: disband the group prok, they'll come back time and time again... at least there you know who they are
Jingyi Davies: they are like the replicators.. never stop.. cant be stop..
Lewis Nerd: limit free signups... force verification... all solved
Risa Bright: requiring a credit card would solve that
Zara Linden: ok, soc and I do have to go meet with the team now.
katykiwi Moonflower: lewis: agreed limitations in some way are needed
Allana Dion: wow you really do like Tv Jingyi hehe
Jingyi Davies: oki have a nice day !
Jingyi Davies: lol
Risa Bright: Thank you
Zara Linden: thanks so much for coming!!
katykiwi Moonflower: ty for listening lindens
Jingyi Davies: I am totally additcted to TV
Allana Dion laughs
JW Singer: Thank you, Zara.
Socrates Linden: and we have to get aback to responding to AR's.
Elwood Abernathy: thanks you Zara and Socrates
Jingyi Davies: TV is my RL
Jingyi Davies: SL is my SL lol
Zara Linden: np, katy. we appreciate the brainstorming. let's work together to bring about some good solutions.
Tommy Parrott: Once the person is banned; and run out of CCs, that will limit their attacks possibly, (banks dont just willy nilly give out CCs ;)
Allana Dion: see you next time Zara and Socrates
Zara Linden: i'm sure we can do it! stay positive :)
Jingyi Davies: Have a nice day
Jingyi Davies: dont be hurt or stressed by us
Socrates Linden: Good day everyone, we'll change the sign here when new hours are added.
Jingyi Davies: have a cup of coffee and relax before the meeting
You: No, feel the pain, we are shielding you from the hurt by taking care of all your customers
Zara Linden: haha jingyi
You: you have 100,000 premium accounts
You: do the math
Adeel Cave: Relax on caffeene? LOL
Zara Linden: see you soon.
Lewis Nerd: "all" of them prok? can't we speak for ourselves?
Malburns Writer is Offline
Jingyi Davies: something strange.. something has return my death glider from my own land
You: If you enjoy racist griefing and animate-my-avatar attacks, you go do that Lewis, and tell us about it
Jingyi Davies: must be a invadtion

Comments

[Prokofy Neva]

Update: my post to CNN did finally post about 4.5 hours after I filed it, and can be read here:

http://secondlife.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/13/linden-governance-team-meets-with-angry-residents/

[Khamon]

I patently refuse to understand why the Lindens patently refuse to learn how to manage their Mainland estate based on the huge number of effective examples offered by continental rental barons on the grid.

In fact, they could enact several of those ideas to better serve The Grid All Hail The Central Grid population at large.

Oh dear, I said "serve" as though they owed us something.

[Ordinal Malaprop]

Actually, there is something that particularly gets on my nerves about the recent attack, and that is that there _was_ a simple technical solution to a lot of the bother, and it was one that a patch had actually been written for and the issue marked "resolved"; it was just that it hadn't actually been put in any of the recent releases.

I am speaking of the bug which means that the blue permissions window automatically takes one's focus whenever it appears, which means that a griefing can just repeatedly ask for animation permission and prevent you doing anything at all. This is an out-and-out bug and removing it is not at all controversial. It was first Jira-ed in August and there are multiple reports of it being used in griefing attacks starting in September.

The bug concerned is VWR-2046, but it isn't as if one can vote for it (all we have) as it is "resolved". I have proposed that "fixed internally" issues not be marked "resolved" until they are actually resolved as WEB-380.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-380

[Prokofy Neva]

Wow.

Ordinal, it's always worse than we knew...: (

[Prokofy Neva]

Oh, and I guess that's why ANOTHER annoyance happens. When the blue screen is merely informing you that somebody paid you or you paid them, it grabs the attention and freezes the screen. If you are trying to type or edit at that moment, you are frozen until responding to the annoyance.

[Ordinal Malaprop]

Yes indeed - it is the same issue. In day-to-day life that is merely annoying, but with a scripted griefing object that asks you for confirmation of an animation request every 0.x seconds, it paralyses you, preventing you from even entering text into the Abuse Report window unless you relog. And it was used repeatedly for that in the recent attacks, and before.

I wouldn't mind so much if it was some entirely new exploit but this is now months old!

[Ann Otoole]

Linden Research will take a proactive stance on this specific group of people the day the lawyers from organizations such as anti defamation league and federal marshals show up at LL HQ with a search warrant.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Well let's call em in then.

coco

[Desmond Shang]

>>Adeel Cave: I have problems logging in as Adeel, at the point where it is "Loading" after the "clothing is downloading" message. I do NOT have that prob with the alts I have

It might be an extensive friend list doing this. Not just calling cards - one must shut down online notifications, delete avatars from the friend list, &c &c.

I was effectively paralysed for 15+ minutes per login until I trimmed back about 1000 people from my friendlist. Yes, the grid is now a not very good business platform due to this, since the last update.

* * * * *

I like the suggestions of 'remove all objects' via estate tools as opposed to just 'scripted'.

Also the idea that some minimal sum is required to create a new account. Fifty cents. A dime. Something. At least then there is a money trail to an ID.

[Prokofy Neva]

Desmond, I've long had this hunch that my calling cards and inventories are lagging me down. I find if I log on as a blank alt, everything is more speedy. Is this really the case? and what are the thresholds?

[Desmond Shang]

>>Desmond, I've long had this hunch that my calling cards and inventories are lagging me down. I find if I log on as a blank alt, everything is more speedy. Is this really the case? and what are the thresholds?

* * * * *

I can only relate my own experiences as I'm not an 'insider' tekki-wikki (though I've been thinking maybe I should get around to that someday). I know others with comparable friendslists have been having similar issues.

Inventory - I'm running around 3000-3500 assets currently; yes I keep the Desmond avatar fairly trim. It has to be. Inventory search is much much faster this way compared to say, 8000+ assets, and I've got a far better handle on what I actually have and what is critical. But I don't think there are too many other disadvantages to having a large inventory other than simply the curse of the disorganised and some inventory search speed.

Friendlist: In my case, I had something like 1200 on my friendlist. Once upon a time about 1000 of these had online visibility and mapping ability to see me (I offered it to all, but didn't quite keep up).

While friendslist was notorious for not working quite frequently, when it did, I was able to log in and function just fine.

However, with the last version update I had some incredible problems just logging in. I'd make it inworld but no text would reach me, I'd have no avatar or be ruthed, and perhaps one login out of three I'd be able to 'wait it out' and be functional after about 10-15 minutes.

Calling the concierge line, I was told that disabling online notifications helped (and it did).

To make an incredibly long story short, though - it didn't help enough. Deleting calling cards wasn't enough either. I did all that, but it wasn't until I reduced my friendslist by mass deletion to maybe 10% or less of what it once was that I was able to log in (and out!) quickly and cleanly.

It seems to 'scale' such that probably I'd get by with 200-300 friends okay, but quite frankly I'm not going to push it.

What was once a highly effective business tool (friendlist a la contact database) has been devolved markedly.

As a business tool, it's now about on par with having your Blackberry swapped out for a blinky toy that comes with a Happymeal.

It may still blurp and bleep and have pushy-buttons, and of course it *looks* the same, but is now dangerously close to useless.

Like a Rolodex with only three paper tabs in it. Or a Franklin Planner with three napkins and a crayon inside. A toy now, nothing more.

I'd sure hate to be starting something like a microcontinent with the current 'capability.'

I personally can't complain. I'm a known quantity and nerfing the friendslist *now* merely locks in whatever advantage I have, much like the region price hikes of Nov 2006 did.

But for someone starting out it must be debilitating, and I doubt anyone even realises the issue until it's too late.

Many talk about the '4096m tier for life' that charter members were able to get - pfft, that was kidstuff. The days of 1250 USD sims and 195/mo island tier, and a powerful networking tool that used to be the friendslist - THAT was advantage, if you knew how to use it.

I can only hope for the grid's overall sake that some network and computing horsepower is put back behind the friendslist. Especially for a 'platform' that aspires to business applications.

We shall see, I guess.

[Maklin Deckard]

"As a business tool, it's now about on par with having your Blackberry swapped out for a blinky toy that comes with a Happymeal." - Desmond Shang

And that, sums up the last year or so of Linden changes to SL in a nutshell.

[wakka weehaa]

the lindens are doing the best they can with what they know , SL is quite progressive and there must be alot of work involved , i wish some of the more intelligent people would understand this at least and stop gripeing , if you dont like SL , leave .. so simple...
THEY ARE DOING THE EST TO THEIR ABITITY ... grow up