The Source of the Problem

Michael Linden of the Governance Team, suzerain of Second Life.

Long ago, a very old and wise beta-test era resident told me that the Lindens *themselves* are griefers, and that's why the problem of griefing in SL is so rampant. I thought she was over the top -- the Lindens? These wacky but delightful characters who goofily run the grid? They aren't griefers, surely?

I've been covering these dreadful Linden office hours for some weeks now, and naturally thought this idea of having DAILY Governance Team meetings at 10:00 am SLT an interesting prospect. I wonder what grown-up Linden made the kid-Lindens have to suffer this punishment!

As you can see from today's log, the griefers themselves attend the meeting. And groups that fight griefers that are worse than the griefers, often.

But nobody is as much of a griefer as Michael Linden, who establishes the tolerance bar for griefing very, very high with his insolent, cynical, and cunning remarks that out-Eddie-Haskell even Eddie Haskell. Even I was rather taken aback, to see a Linden so *obviously* engaging in Woodbury University-taught behaviour. BOGGLE.

Alexa Linden: Hi everyone :)
Pierce Kronos: Greetings Alexa
Tengu Yamabushi: Hello :)
Alexa Linden: Hi Daaneth
Alexa Linden: beautiful Avatar
Daaneth Kivioq: why thank you! And hello to all!
Pierce Kronos: Hi Michael
Michael Linden: Hello all!
Daaneth Kivioq: Good mOnring Michael
Alexa Linden: :)
Pierce Kronos: HI Dear, just in time.
jone1 Cioc is Online
Aree Lulibub: Hi Everyone :)
Daaneth Kivioq: love the steampunk K-9 Aree!
Aree Lulibub: Good to see you again, Michael
Aree Lulibub: Thanks, Daaneth!
Alexa Linden: one of Fleas :)
Zara Linden: hello everyone!
Pierce Kronos: HI Zara
Alexa Linden: I love that one
Michael Linden: Thank you.
Alexa Linden: Hi Zara
Aree Lulibub: Hi Zara :)
Michael Linden: Hmm, I'm listening to Ruth Etting sing "Button Up Your Overcoat" right now.
Daaneth Kivioq: we need some music here, Mike
Michael Linden: Well, we have cricket noises!
Michael Linden: Great avatar, Daaneth.
Daaneth Kivioq: Thank you!
Alexa Linden: WB Prokofy
Zara Linden: i like it as well
Zara Linden: hi alexa
Alexa Linden: Hi :)
Daaneth Kivioq: This is the Mid Size one - I have a big one, but I'd ttake up most of the Island
jone1 Cioc is Online
Aree Lulibub: I like the glasses on it lol
Pierce Kronos pets his rat
Michael Linden: "No avatar may be bigger than an island."
Daaneth Kivioq: My trademark, I guess - all my AV;s wear glasses like this
Zara Linden: lol
Aree Lulibub: It's good to have a trademark. Mine is just for wearing oddball avatars :D
Pierce Kronos: and being married to me
Aree Lulibub: That too
Alexa Linden: lol
You: Michael, is there any symbolism in these meetings being held next to Jessie?
Daaneth Kivioq: well, its funny, I bought a pair of glasses for my AV my first Day in SL - because I have worn glasess in RL all my life. Now it feels odd to have an AV that doesnt wwear them
Aree Lulibub grins at Daaneth
You: Is war in the Governant Team upon us?
Alexa Linden: Do I need a helmet!?!?!
You: *Governance
Michael Linden: Nah, it's just that this island was available. I imagine this "sea" area was put up to avoid making Resident-owned regions next to Jessie, though.
You: Have you noticed a reduction in shooting incidents since you stopped putting the shooting and armoured avatars on the splash page?
Pierce Kronos: Pfft.
You: and a corresponding increase in shopping since you put shoppers on the splash page?
You: I think that was a helpful move but I wonder if it worked.
Alexa Linden: interesting
Daaneth Kivioq: my fave gun is still Torleys watermelon launcher
Aree Lulibub: Good question Prok. I wonder if people actually pay attention to the splash page.
Zara Linden: oh yes- good one
Daaneth Kivioq: My freinds and I play watermelon tag a lot
Pierce Kronos: What splash page?
You: Of course they do, it's the first thing that, er, splashes at them
Daaneth Kivioq: Sl.com
You: www.secondlife.com
Michael Linden: Hmm, no ... at least about assault. Shopping, I haven't followed the economy numbers very closely.
You: it used to feature a static picture of armed avatars and naturally signalled a message to all 15 year old boys: come here and play shoot the mall manager!
Aree Lulibub: The SL economy has been bad. Sales are down
You: then it had a revolving set of pictures, 2 of which were still all suited up in armour with guns
You: then they dumped it finally and put shopping and householders
Michael Linden: More sex, less violence?
Lamorna Proctor: hi everyone
Pierce Kronos: Second.
Daaneth Kivioq: Mike, would you like some free chairs & couches for thsi place - I designed them, theyare kind of rustic
You: Yes you should analyze why those sales are down, it's actually part of a whole trend that is leading toward a folding up of the economy and a move to grid-level accounts
Aree Lulibub: Hi Lamorna :)
Michael Linden: Hmm, well, we want to keep it simple here.
Aree Lulibub waves to Katar
Michael Linden: But thank you.
You: Michael, I didn't say sex, I said *shopping* which most people here in fact do more, and like more, than sex, hard as that is to imagine, but it's the case.
Katar Supercharge: hi Aree
Pierce Kronos: sales aren't really a governance issue.
You: Is this PG? Sex you can at most do for like 45 minutes and then you need new stuff to do
Astarte Artaud: Hi Katar :)
Michael Linden: Our finance team analyzes the economy numbers left, right and sideways, Prokofy.
Astarte Artaud: Hi everyone :)
Katar Supercharge: hello
Pierce Kronos: HI Katar.
Katar Supercharge: 'sup P?
Aree Lulibub: LOL 45 minutes?
Daaneth Kivioq: 45 minutes - poor Prok - no staina, eh?
Aree Lulibub giggles
Pierce Kronos: sounds like just foreplay to me
Daaneth Kivioq: stamina
Michael Linden: Thanks, Ladydawn.
You: Yes I realize that Michael but they don't have all the "business objects" tagged as "sex" or "not sex" so this foolish concept that there are only 18 percent of the parcels engaged in adult behaviour as Philip claims gets legs because they don't really estimate what is really happening
Allana Dion: hey sometimes five minutes is enough if ya do it right *g*
You: remember when you used to have that running ticker on the front page, "Objects sold in world last five minutes"
You: that was amazingly interesting because it was all like this: "Sexxxay Avatar Tip Jar" and "Skunk Money"
Michael Linden: So, any questions about abuse issues?
You: that's probably why you had to shut it off
You: well if we can tell what your mission here is in Second Life, we can tell whether there is a prayer of mitigating the abuse

Daaneth Kivioq: well,of a sort Mike - I'd like to talk about the MegaPrim issue
Michael Linden: Sure, Daaneth.
Pierce Kronos: huh?
You: I want to follow up from last time and ask about the inventory searches
Allana Dion: Yes Michael, forgive me if this has already been asked but do we have an idea exactly when sim owners will have the ability to handle their own abuse reports?
Michael Linden: Uh, as in LL searching inventory?
You: can you ban the megaprims at least on the Mainland as most of the time they are used for griefing and not building.
Daaneth Kivioq: there has been a huge discussion on the forums, as you know - but the real question is this - what does LL intend to do?
Allana Dion: oh other topic sorry
You: It seems like Andrew already ruled that they are allowed as long as they don't view beyond 256 or something
Lamorna Proctor: megaprims have their uses, as long as they don't encroach
Astarte Artaud: Hey that statement is not true. A lot are used for legit building on mainland
Michael Linden: Allana: sorry, no I don't know. That has to be negotiated between the concierge and the estate owners. I'm sure there'll be more testing and "beta" versions first, though.
Allana Dion: ok ty
You: Allana they've answered that in past days, they aren't giving a specific date but it is something Community is working on and let's hope they do NOT GOM your verification system
Daaneth Kivioq: I can show you a legit use for a 1K prim - mind you its on a private sim
Michael Linden: Actually, most megaprims on the mainland are used for building, Prokofy.
Lamorna Proctor: maybe the server code could check that they don't encroach onto adjacent parcels
You: Actually, Michael, no, they are used for griefing
Daaneth Kivioq: anything can be used for griefing, Prok
You: Well these are prims you cannot return because of the way they are anchored
Lamorna Proctor: megaprims are very useful
Michael Linden: We're not going to make a content category that works one way on the Mainland and another way on the private estates.
You: No, they are used to completely block sims, sometimes 4 at a time
Daaneth Kivioq: then AR it
Lamorna Proctor: how about checking for overlapping another parcel then? that's the problem with them
Daaneth Kivioq: like any other case of abuse
Pierce Kronos: yep, AR is your firend.
Pierce Kronos: friend too
You: by the people who belong to Plastic Duck/Gene Replacement's griefing groups -- that alone should be a reason not to permit them, they were designed by Plastic Duck's alt after he was permabanned from SL
Lamorna Proctor: rather than just check the centre, check the boundaries of it
Aargle Zymurgy: sorry, but I'm with the others, Prok. My club wouldn't look quite the same without them
Astarte Artaud: I live and work on the mainland. I've only come across one case and that was cleared quickly by LL
You: why is it that people who crash the entire grid -- constantly, over and over again -- are permitted to return on alts and make giant stuff and grief people *still*?
You: why?
You: why?
You: why?
Michael Linden: Megaprims do make some kinds of abuse easier on the mainland ... or harder to report. But the vast majority of megaprims on the mainland aren't being used maliciously.
Captain Spoonhammer: because
Daaneth Kivioq: sorry Prok, but they are too dang useful - mind you, I'd love to see the regular prim size limit be expanded
Michael Linden: That doesn't mean they won't cause problems ...
Lamorna Proctor: i agree totally michael
You: Michael, I own land on 60 sims, and I see them ONLY repeat ONLY ONLY ONLY to abuse with
Captain Spoonhammer: it just...works
You: many people don't report them so you have artificially low stats
Pierce Kronos sighs
You: they don't even understand what is happening
Lamorna Proctor: they have many legitimate uses, and many building would be destroyed if you banned them
Daaneth Kivioq: I suspect Prok, your experience is biased
You: and if Astarte personally has some little anecdotal experience that they were cleared, great, that cannot offset the dozens of times I've seen them used by the descendants or Plastic Duck himself *to grief with*
You: It's ample, biased though it may be, and utterly offsets something like Astarte's claim that it is not a problem
Aargle Zymurgy: I suspect that removing megaprims would cause more rioting by owners than any griefing ever could.
Daaneth Kivioq: so, if a gun was ever used to grief you, Prok, all guns should be banned?
You: or even Michael's claim, since he is not really telling us *how many abuse reports* versus *how many documented good uses*
Michael Linden: One of the useful effects of the Havok upgrade might be (and must emphasize *might*) the ability to use the physics system to detect parcel encroachment.
You: WHEN you can do that Michael, I will believe you
Lamorna Proctor: that would be good, michael, if the technology works like that
You: given that many people like my helpless tenants being harassed with them do NOT report them and I don't even bother anymore
Captain Spoonhammer: yes yes, parcel encroachment
Pierce Kronos: I see lots and lots more uses that are good versus used for griefing personally. I think you should back up your statements with proof which the Gteam can use rather than conjecture.
Michael Linden: Oddly enough, Residents don't report good uses of megaprims via the abuse reporting tool.
Lamorna Proctor: lol
Daaneth Kivioq: Thats has nothing to do with whether they are good ar bad
Allana Dion smiles
Daaneth Kivioq: good point Mike!
Aargle Zymurgy: lol
Allana Dion: we need a "hey I saw something really cool" report tool :P
Michael Linden: The comments on the blog and in the forums are pretty heavily in favor of keeping megaprims around.
Daaneth Kivioq: I am building a sim right now that has no surrounding ocean - just a prairie heading off into the distance
You: Michael, they are utterly skewed toward your fanboyz
You: people griefed by the prims don't even know there IS a blog half the time
You: or they are banned from it precisely for protesting to Cory Linden about his very ambigious relationship to libsl and reverse engineering and failure to respond to the griefing perpetrated by these groups
Lamorna Proctor: if people grief using megaprims, then we have to find an effective way to deal with that, not ban the megaprims
Michael Linden: I have to say, Daaneth, we're most likely to remove the over-256-meter megaprims ...
Aargle Zymurgy: them being uneducated about what goes on here is a cause to make life harder on those who DO educate themselves.
Daaneth Kivioq: hey Prok -I have a clue for you - this is Second Life, not the Prokofy Neva Show - your experiences do not coincide with everyone elses, and please dont assume they do
Captain Spoonhammer: yeah really
Aargle Zymurgy: *is NOT cause
You: it's Linden Lab's own failure to end the ambiguity around griefing groups because you think you need to fete their creative script kiddie stuff that perpetrates the griefing here
Lamorna Proctor: hear hear
Harvok Aeon: ey, im getting spammed with this thing over me :(
Allana Dion: removing the ridiculously large ones is reasonable and keeping the useful sizes
Pierce Kronos: geeze ,give it a rest, we have heard your point.
Harvok Aeon: o, it disapear
You: when you are ready to really condemn the people you once went to the FBI over, on their grid crashing, then you will curb abuse
Harvok Aeon: see urs
Daaneth Kivioq: I want to keep my 1K prim!
Tengu Yamabushi: Michael, when you're ready, I have a question, if I might. Just let me know when :)
Michael Linden: Sure, Tengu.
Pierce Kronos: ::smiles at Tengu::
Michael Linden: What's your question?
Tengu Yamabushi: A two part question: Is there a timeline for the release of the new AR tools? Also, will their rollout include the shared banlist implementation, or will that come later?
You: You have to realize that the problem of griefing starts at home, Michael, right in Linden Lab's casual attitude toward griefers, endlessly celebrating their creativity and never meeting a script you don't like, and letting them savage land owners.
Daaneth Kivioq: I think like any thing else, it needs to be handle on a case by case basis, Mike
Daaneth Kivioq: Pullpucku, Prok
Lamorna Proctor: you're like a broken record, Prok
Daaneth Kivioq: Bullpucky
Aargle Zymurgy hates to admit being old enough to know what a broken record is.
Aree Lulibub grins at Aargle "me too."
Michael Linden: The Community Team is designing "Abuse Reporter 2.0", Tengu ... I don't think they have any code yet. Not this year.
Daaneth Kivioq: LL has I think been doing a better job of handling grifers
Alexa Linden: ditto
Lamorna Proctor: i have broken CD's that play like Prok
Allana Dion won't admit being old enough
Michael Linden: Banlist stuff will likely appear at the same time ... though it's not part of the Abuse Reporter webform.
Daaneth Kivioq carefully guards his edison cylinders
Tengu Yamabushi: A followup...
Aree Lulibub: lol Daaneth
You: So you *are* indeed GOMing Ban-Link or how do you mean "banlist"?
Katar Supercharge: is that those old , big black CDs? I dont recall those ;D
Tengu Yamabushi: Will there be a community (or otherwise) coverage of Linden Land for that banlink-like tool?
Katar Supercharge: stupid question... GOM-ing?
Daaneth Kivioq: please excuse me - GOMing?
You: will you have a better appeals system than travis?
You: Gaming Open Market = GOM
Daaneth Kivioq: which means what in this context
Allana Dion: I would like to know more about what we are talking about in reference to ban lists, I'm not clear on what you all mean
You: the Lindens forced them out of business after failing to buy them out in 2005, and it became a word to mean "taking over something a resident created"
bladyblue Bommerang: didnt GOM come back?
Daaneth Kivioq: Mike - your side of that?
Tengu Yamabushi: See '
http://www.slbanlink.com
' for one such implementation, Allana.
Allana Dion: ok that one I know about Tengu, I wasn't aware that was in any way connected to a plan the Lindens would be working on
Michael Linden: Well, if Governor Linden can take part in something ... it's an interesting question. Blocking an avatar from Linden Land, say, has possibilities as another discipline tool. But meetings, infohubs, orientation islands are all Linden land.
bladyblue Bommerang: 11 hours ago I put in a ticket with Concierge that was immediately forwarded to the Governance Team. I was told that this would be responded to almost immediately. Still no response. What is your response time to Concierge-forwarded tickets Michael?
Tengu Yamabushi: Yes, exactly, Michael. Essentially use of the tools on Linden Land would create a category of 'Persona non grata' resident.
Michael Linden: Gaming Open Market is nothing that I worry about.
Tengu Yamabushi: An interesting notion.
You: especially because it closed more than 2 years ago, you're safe there Michael
Daaneth Kivioq: but what was it about, Mike - what happened?
You: it's not really the topic here go read the Herald about it
Michael Linden: Concierge tickets don't (at this time) get priority treatment. Also, we don't normally provide a resolution e-mail to abuse reports nowadays.
Michael Linden: (Unless we need more information, or can provide help/information to the reporter to avoid further problems)
Allana Dion: nothing happened Daaneth, the Lindens established the LindeX, effectively making it more difficult for outside money traders who exchange currency in multiple games to do business in SL
bladyblue Bommerang: I was told by Concierge that it was going to be dealt with immediately buy Governance
Daaneth Kivioq: ahh thank you
bladyblue Bommerang: When I was here last - I needed information from the Governance Team about the small infoHubs and what is being done about enforcing the definition of the Hub as being for information distribution and not a a chat area. The 4 sim areas are designated as chat zones.
Daaneth Kivioq: I have never dealt with anyhting but Lindex, so
bladyblue Bommerang: I was told to speak to concierge regarding that. Concierge said speak to Governance regarding InfoHub issues.
You: Michael could you please elaborate on this concept that you will ban people off Linden land, or enable them to be mass banned from all but welcome areas -- what is the point of that? If their behaviour really rises to the test of such massive banning, why are they in SL? Unless you are forseeing in fact an abusive use of Ban-Link when a few land barons grab control of it and ban people at a whim.
Allana Dion: it was smart business
Daaneth Kivioq: wait your turn Prok
Michael Linden: I can't provide information here about the resolution of an abuse report, bladyblue ...
bladyblue Bommerang: Im not asking that
You: there aren't turns here you just type into the scroll
bladyblue Bommerang: I asked about response time
bladyblue Bommerang: you said there is no priority for that ith this team
Michael Linden: Correct, bladyblue.
bladyblue Bommerang: so I go back to concierge and tell them and try again
You: bladyblue, surely you aren't suggesting that resident-designed Linden infohubs should have no chat in them?!
Captain Spoonhammer: thats madness
bladyblue Bommerang: what I am asking for now is a clarification on this on-going infohub issue
bladyblue Bommerang: When I was here last - I needed information from the Governance Team about the small infoHubs and what is being done about enforcing the definition of the Hub as being for information distribution and not a a chat area. The 4 sim areas are designated as chat zones.
Daaneth Kivioq: which is Bladyblue?
bladyblue Bommerang: I was told to speak to concierge regarding that. Concierge said speak to Governance regarding InfoHub issues.
bladyblue Bommerang: Just last night a griefer group in the Bear InofHub mass abuse reported me for talking to them about using the small infohub as a large chat area and blocking entry to the sim for some. Once the Linden Abuse system got all the reports I was logged off for some hours. I contacted Concierge and they said that ticket had to go to the governance group. It seems as if I am getting the runaround concerning which Linden Group one speaks to concerning the infohub resource abuses, what is being done to make these area effective in the matter defined in the Linden Blog and effective abuses of the automated abuse system. Who at Linden Lab do I speak to to get this information and to make sure that these griefers cannot mass abuse report me when I enter the sim I pay tier in?
You: I have one of those hubs I work on and people grief it constantly, I was forced to ask the Lindens to turn off scripts and building, and to abuse report several frequent flyers assiduously, it's very annyoing because LL gives them only 3-day vacations and they are back, but the alternative is to make an unworkable public space, it won't be public anymore
Michael Linden: Prokofy: having Governor Linden ban some Residents from Linden lab would provide another tool for the Governance team ... something between a warning and a suspension.
bladyblue Bommerang: Prof I abuse report them daily
You: well I do too
bladyblue Bommerang: then they figured out how to game the auto abuse system
Pierce Kronos: ::Has a question for Michael::
bladyblue Bommerang: and had me banned for talking to them
You: and I brought tenants on to encourage newbies to stop being intimidated by them as they try to shoot or cage or bully newbies
You: I don't think LL has the staff to keep policing these things
Michael Linden: Sure, Pierce, go ahead.
You: well how can they prevent access to Linden land?
bladyblue Bommerang: Exactly - absentee landlords
You: you mean by packing the sim with 40?
bladyblue Bommerang: the sim only holds 43 people
You: well if you are working on that hub you just have to work it, it's not ideal but basically, you just keep trying to offer the good as a way to displace the bad
Pierce Kronos: Thanks, will these meeting always be held at this time or will they be offered at other times to facilitate other times zones, if not, will the log possibly be posted somewhere for others to read???
Jeamstine Jurgis: have you been to one lately Prok?
Aargle Zymurgy: sometimes, I wish you could not only control scripting and building by groups, but by active time in-world.
You: bladyblue one thing to do to counter those kinds of griefing posses is to hold your own tutorial or orientation meeting and have the sim filled already with 20-30 and then they eventually give up
You: I work them DAILY
You: I have one that I helped develop that I constantly work on and I am TOTALLY FAMILIAR with these issues
You: but the alternative is to put power in the hands of mentors who are themselves abusive
Michael Linden: Well, if we log it we'd probably put up a sign. Some Residents have been posting logs to their blogs about these meetings to.
You: I don't want mentors or helpers banning people from open public spaces
You: and Lindens can't cope
You: so I use other tactics
bladyblue Bommerang: Michael can I get a answer please?
You: I put up signs saying "No Vigilantes"
bladyblue Bommerang: Just last night a griefer group in the Bear InofHub mass abuse reported me for talking to them about using the small infohub as a large chat area and blocking entry to the sim for some. Once the Linden Abuse system got all the reports I was logged off for some hours. I contcated Concierge and they said that ticket had to go to the governance group. It seems as if I am getting the runaround concerning which Linden Group one speaks to concerning the infohub resource abuses, what is being done to make these area effective in the matter defined in the Linden Blog and effective abuses of the automated abuse system. Who at Linden Lab do I speak to to getthis infomation and to make sure that these griefers cannot mass abuse report me when I enter the sim I pay tier in?
Michael Linden: As for hours ... gotta get some of our other Governance Team staff to pick up the weekend/evening time.
Michael Linden: For now, myself and Zara are sort of testing how popular these sessions are.
Pierce Kronos: I think that would be great, one other question, will there be a format, or will folks just type over top of each other without regard to others?
You: blady, unfortunately for us all, the ground rules here is that the Lindens refuse to talk about specific incidents
You: and the solutions you are offering -- having mentors or residents developing the hubs be those empowered to ban griefers is itself a form of abuse in many cases
Aree Lulibub: Yeah, maybe some sort of meeting protocol would be good
bladyblue Bommerang: It seems as if I am getting the runaround concerning which Linden Group one speaks to concerning the infohub resource abuses, what is being done to make these area effective in the matter defined in the Linden Blog and effective abuses of the automated abuse system. Who at Linden Lab do I speak to to get this infomation and to make sure that these griefers cannot mass abuse report me when I enter the sim I pay tier in?
You: what are your solutions offered that don't in themselves open up other abuses??
Pierce Kronos: maybe like taking turns.
bladyblue Bommerang: there is no specific incident in that question
Zara Linden: we're going to set topics in the future pierce
Pierce Kronos: Cool, thanks
bladyblue Bommerang: its the same question I asked three days ago
You: Pierce, just type your question
Aree Lulibub: Thanks, Zara. This free for all isn't working for me lol
Daaneth Kivioq: Mike, can you answer Blady's question?
Captain Spoonhammer: you mean book
bladyblue Bommerang: Its turning into one Captain
You: I think there are enough issues on these resident-developed infohubs that we should try to get a Linden to take a special meeting just on that topic
Michael Linden: It is not a violation of the Community Standards to stand around at an Infohub.
bladyblue Bommerang: You have a description of the infohub you posted
bladyblue Bommerang: "These spaces, called Infohubs in Second Life, are distributed throughout the mainland grid. Because these spaces vary in size from very small plots of land to larger ones, we are considering two types of builds. The smaller of these would function as an information center for centralized distribution of Linden Lab news and announcements as well as resident content. The larger type of space would be used as a public gathering space for meetings, events, or general socializing."
You: You *are* aware Michael that by making a concept like that, which sounds good, you are enabling griefing posses that have infected all the hubs, mainly from w-hat and offshoots
bladyblue Bommerang: You say the smaller hubs are not for socializing the 4 sim ones are
You: so something has to be done that keeps them open, but doesn't enable all your w-hat firends
Michael Linden: The presence of an Infohub in a particular Region might be a nuisance, I suppose ... the Community team is going to add more Infohubs soon, and I suppose they'd be open to shutting down an existing one.
Aree Lulibub: Whose w-hat friends?
bladyblue Bommerang: I never said I would pay tier to provide a playground for Linden Lab's griefers and chatters
Aree Lulibub: ^^
Daaneth Kivioq: yes, but how can these spurious abuse reports be handled
Michael Linden: The same way as other ones, Daaneth ... our staff reads them.
bladyblue Bommerang: I need to use the parcel I have been paying tier on for nearly three years
Daaneth Kivioq: ti would be nice if the estate tools ability to ban a group, worked at the parcel level
Michael Linden: I agree, Daaneth.
Daaneth Kivioq: xan this be done?
Daaneth Kivioq: can
bladyblue Bommerang: So this community team - I need the information on how to contact them
Tengu Yamabushi: It would need to be able to ban a _lot_ of groups.
Tengu Yamabushi: 300 wouldn't be enough.
Michael Linden: Probably, though the ability to leave and join a group means it won't really affect gung-ho griefers.
Tengu Yamabushi: And groups can be hidden.
Tengu Yamabushi shrugs.
You: I don't see that there's an estate tool to ban a group? is this something new? or planned?
bladyblue Bommerang: It is a terrible shame that Linden Lab refuses to enforce their own definition of the infohub - so they would rather shut it down than make it do as it was intended to do
Aargle Zymurgy looks through estate tools
You: Michael griefers thrive in their groups, if you would tackle the groups better you would mitigate griefing, they use their membership as a badge of honour and a recruiting tool.
Captain Spoonhammer: what groups
Allana Dion: What is your suggestion as to how to "tackle the groups better"?
Aree Lulibub: blady, maybe I missed it, but where did anyone say they're shutting down infohubs?
You: Woodbury University would be a good one to freeze for example.
Daaneth Kivioq: its right there Prok under the estate tab or the region/estate tools
Michael Linden: You can contact Chadrick Linden, he's part of the Community team.
bladyblue Bommerang: Yes the grifer group that abuses the infohub in the sim I am in recruits new members right off the infohub and hand out griefer tools to them
You: Often when we go to meetings with Chadrick he says, oh, take that up with the Governance team.
Allana Dion: oh lovely blady :(
You: There's the larger issue of how you will tackle these groups which are indeed groups and stay in the groups and need to be addressed at that level.
Michael Linden: Is there a particular Region whose Infohub you object to, bladyblue?
bladyblue Bommerang: Micheal I do not know why you are re-writing the definition of the infohub and saying its quite all right for these people to gather en masse for up ten hours a day in a one sim infohub when the official definition of the infohub does not support your statement
Pierce Kronos: you want no loitering signs?
Aargle Zymurgy: LOL
Aree Lulibub: That would be easy it implement :D
You: blady I totally sympathize with infesting griefing posses in infohubs and WAs, they are in Dore constantly, I land there and find entire w-hat factions holding the thing hostage -- but what is the solution? only displacing bad with good, not shutting down all public activity
You: the only solution is to plan OTHER activities in those hubs, and come to them YOURSELF and talk with newbies
Pierce Kronos: they we have to have Loiter Police to enforce it.
Aargle Zymurgy: sorry, but it almost sounds like a request not to be here for what SL is here for: chatting
Astarte Artaud: So you would say the same thing badyblue if a club opened up on the siom ??
You: there isn't a tool-based solution to a social problem
Allana Dion: would no loitering signs (meaning simply something advising new users to learn and then leave and explore) be a bad thing?
You: Why would I tell someone to learn and leave?
You: they take time to learn sometimes weeks and weeks
You: their computer doesn't work or whatever
Daaneth Kivioq: Mike, we NEED that group ban tool
Allana Dion: this is true *nods*
bladyblue Bommerang: I bought that sim in 2005 when it came online and sold parcel a year later to who I wanted to have them
bladyblue Bommerang: a club opening is not a issue
Michael Linden: We do plan to soon (I dunno exactly how soon) open a bunch more Infohubs ... that should reduce the number of random Residents arriving at any given hub.
bladyblue Bommerang: we have full control over that
You: it won't reduce the problem of the infesting griefing groups that nest in hubs Michael
Allana Dion: I only mean something reminding folks there is more in the world to see and advising them to go explore
bladyblue Bommerang: what we have no control over is the Infohub resource abuses
You: it only increases their surface area, not dilute them, they stick to certain ones
Astarte Artaud: tell that to other users who can't get to there parcels
You: and THAT is the single greatest reason for the lack of user retention
Michael Linden: Daaneth, I'll go see what the engineers think about a group ban after this meeting.
Katar Supercharge: something like "now that you learned all you can from here, why not check out X, Y, and Z ? :) "
You: anyone coming into SL new and seeing all those flying penises, naked people in PG, abusive talkers, shooters, cagers, harassers LEAVES
Allana Dion decides to shut up as this is clearly not her area of knowledge lol
Daaneth Kivioq: ty!
Katar Supercharge: lesss negative that way, i think
You: if you don't have the staff to police these, understood, but you could turn off scripts and build in every single one, put them to group only and also make some demonstrative arrests
You: AND GROUPS FREEZES
Aree Lulibub agrees with Katar
You: it's a handful of groups doing this Michael
You: everyone can see that
Captain Spoonhammer: damn groups
Lamorna Proctor: For once I agree with Prok
Daaneth Kivioq: SPARTA!!!!
Jingyi Davies: THIS IS SPARTA!!!
Captain Spoonhammer: how about them wwiiolers
You: no, damn w-hat and sect spin-offs who do this
Michael Linden: Oh, any groups you'd care to name, Prokofy?
Jingyi Davies: lol
You: I've named them? hello?
You: in thousands of abuse reports for 2 years?
Lamorna Proctor: there are some very offensive things that a newbie may see as soon as he/she enters
Pierce Kronos: Prokofy Fan Club
Michael Linden: So none stick in your mind?
bladyblue Bommerang: oh those ww2 people held Bear hostage for about two months in 2006
Daaneth Kivioq: no this is Kremer - Sparta - off thataway
Aree Lulibub agrees with Prok.
You: we could start with the Prokofy Neva Fan Club which -- surprise surprise -- isn't a real fan club : )
Jingyi Davies: lol
Aree Lulibub: They don't need scripts and building in info hubs
You: every single one of those people is a frequent flyer hands-on multi-abuse griefer
You: and the idea that it's ok to keep a recruiting tool like that is pretty silly
Jingyi Davies: This is griefing lol
Pierce Kronos: ever one of them?
bladyblue Bommerang: No all they need is a large group of members to take over
Jingyi Davies: then kick lol
You: they infest hubs, crash sims, make nuisances of themselves
You: what do you think Pierce?
bladyblue Bommerang: The Bear Co-op group recruits new members as they rez in the infohub and tell them to sit and chat with them
Daaneth Kivioq: hmm, lets send in the Spartans!
Pierce Kronos: I think you're making a lot of mountains out of molehills, personally.
You: but long before there was any Prokofy Neva Fan Club or Prokofy Neva, Michael, there were these w-hat and other groups holding the infohubs hostage
bladyblue Bommerang: effectively stopping the flow of traffic in the infohub
You: your uber liberalism on this point only keeps retention at 1 in 10
You: now either you address that or you don't
You: admit the problem and stop being an extremist about it and pretending it's about me not liking my "Fan club"
Pierce Kronos: name calling is not nice.
Michael Linden: Hmm, the fan club seems to be very admiring, by their charter.
You: the only reason there *is* a fan club is that somebody has been found willing to fight back, and abuse report, follow up and publicize this problem that affects many people all over in those hubs
Lamorna Proctor: I agreed with you Prok, but you've made your point now
Aargle Zymurgy: I occasionally like to hang out in the noob places and direct them to better places.
Jingyi Davies: Mr Scott is coming
bladyblue Bommerang: I tok someone's advice and started a group to address the ever-increasing infohub dilemma since Governance, Concierge and Community Linden groups keep passing the buck
You: As I said, the griefing problem begins right there, at home in the Lab, with a snotty attitude like that Michael Linden
You: when you're ready to grow up and cut out the crap like that, you will ease the griefing
You: and not until
You: if you imagine that these people are admiring
Allana Dion: well Michael, this club is using Prokofy's name without his consent, isn't there some way he can have them shut down for that reason?
You: I guess you don't read the hundreds of ARs I file on their crashing my sims -- shame on you
Michael Linden: For name usage?
Daaneth Kivioq: good point Allana
You: No, that's not the reason
Aree Lulibub: Really, Prok. Is that necessary?
You: anyone should be able to form a group to criticize a landlord
You: but they don't get to CRASH THEIR SIMS
You: they don't get to put out a real life picture on a frigging MEGAPRIM and leave it for 3 days in the infohub
Pierce Kronos: too different issues.
Michael Linden: Do you propose that we not allow Residents to use other Resident's names?
Pierce Kronos: two
Allana Dion: yes for name usage, it is not their name to use
bladyblue Bommerang: Linden Lab is vert trusting and expect people are doing nice things out there - but the reality of the situation is that without clear guidelines and enforcememnt - there will be massive abuses that effect everyone negatively
You: my, you were slow on dealing with THAT Michael Linden -- have you no sense of shame?
Allana Dion: I do propose that Michael actually, I wouldn't want someone using my name in their group or business without my consent
Jingyi Davies: omg..
You: No, I don't propose any such sillyness: I propose that when you have a group that has hundreds of ARs for cause, and numerous bans for cause, you begin to say, hey, this group is a griefing conspiracy, let's freeze it!
You: as you would in real life
Pierce Kronos: guilt by associaton with a group, sounds illegal
Michael Linden: Uh, so the Mafia has been frozen ...
bladyblue Bommerang: its not illegal
You: You could at least refrain from giving them aid and comfort by pretending they are an admiring group, Michael, my God, the problem is worse than I knew!
You: geez
Captain Spoonhammer: WOW!
Jingyi Davies: proably shold make a place where peole can fight it out them self lol
You: When Lindens are ready to stop saying crap like that we'll see a lot less griefing around here
bladyblue Bommerang: Thats why the police bring large vans when they pick up culprits - everyone goes
Captain Spoonhammer: even there grandmothers!
Michael Linden: Any questions about the abuse process, anyone?
bladyblue Bommerang: yes
Jingyi Davies: no
Jingyi Davies: lol
You: If you join a group that is stated to be a griefing group, that goes on griefing posses, whose members are repeatedly banned, who make alts, and you remain in that group despite the obvious evidence of what it is, you deserve to be cuffed *shrugs*
Jingyi Davies: we come here and complaint : ) heheh
bladyblue Bommerang: This is a automated system, yes?
bladyblue Bommerang: it picks up on key words and how many come in for one name in a time frame?
Jeamstine Jurgis: exactly why you read the groups charter before joining
Michael Linden: Well, it's computerized, of course ... eh? Among other things, sure, bladyblue.
bladyblue Bommerang: And guess what Michael? People have figured out how to game that already
Michael Linden: Oh? How so?
Jingyi Davies: wpw!!
Jingyi Davies: Data!!
You: Could you tell us the name of your resident account, Michael?
bladyblue Bommerang: Mass abuse report using the correct key words
Zara Linden: yes, the reports are organized according to their categories and the amount reported on a particular resident
Jingyi Davies: can you see Data?
bladyblue Bommerang: and that avatar gets logged off
bladyblue Bommerang: and there is no recourse inplace at all
Michael Linden: Ah, but nothing happens unless one of the Governance Team reads the reports, bladyblue.
You: yes I agree with blady, the reports coming from hubs and WAs is NOT being responded to as fast as on private parcels
You: which is truly annoying because obviously on my own land I can use the tools and don't need an AR most of the time
Jeamstine Jurgis: They read the report and act before investigation?
Michael Linden: Yes, Jeamstine.
bladyblue Bommerang: So your saying that within four minutes of a mass abuse report and the Avatar is logged off - the Governance team has doine their investigation?
Jeamstine Jurgis: that's ridiculous
Pierce Kronos: ^^
Jeamstine Jurgis: i heard the guy say last night lets mass report her
bladyblue Bommerang: Thats what these groups know Michael and they abuse it
Jingyi Davies: Romulant decloaking !
Michael Linden: Chat logs, dwell logs ... I can't answer that, bladyblue.
Jeamstine Jurgis: they didnt bother logging the chat?
bladyblue Bommerang: then you and your group Michael dont want to admit you may have made a mistake
You: The other day I had 20 people filling the sim in Brown in PG, many naked and shooting, moving on to Linden land as safe territory, then coming into people's houses, and you coudln't ban them fast enough, for one as they had names like 123049874Dave -- and I filed an AR thinking, well, maybe a Linden could come in 30 minutes -- got no response whatsoever, they hold a sim hostage for a day, and really, not much we can do but log off
Aree Lulibub: The abuse reports are READ by a g-team member. They're not acted upon by keywords
bladyblue Bommerang: so the false abuse claim stays
Captain Spoonhammer: you and your cronies!
Captain Spoonhammer: i blame bush
Jeamstine Jurgis: guilty by the most voices?
Jeamstine Jurgis: regardless of the proof of open chat log?
Pierce Kronos: guilt by proof of sim logs, screen shots, etc.
You: I wonder do you read the chat logs now? we can't attach them, so do you really bother to fish them off the server?
Jingyi Davies: you cant install automatic miniguns to fight themm off ..
Captain Spoonhammer: guilty just by being there..everyone in the sim..banned guilty by association remember guys?
Michael Linden: It's pretty close to 11 o'clock, does anyone have any suggestions for topics for future office hour sessions?
Jeamstine Jurgis: they didn't read the log before taking action else they would've heard what dude said in "open chat"
Michael Linden: Sure we do, Prokofy.
Jeamstine Jurgis: yes
Tengu Yamabushi: Micheal, yes.
Lamorna Proctor: i would strongly suggest you have a publicised agenda, and stick to it
Pierce Kronos: and make people take turns
Aree Lulibub: Agree with that, Lamorna!
Jeamstine Jurgis: Positive resolutions for the purpose of these forums
Pierce Kronos: rather than try to dominate the meeting
Lamorna Proctor: and actively chair the meeting and not let a few people dominate it
Jingyi Davies: oh oki lol
You: Like Lamorna, for example, with her nasty comments : )
You: type into the scroll and stop whining
Tengu Yamabushi: On a similar note, while I'm not suggesting Robert's Rules of Order, some allotment of Q/A time per-person/question might be a subject for next meeting.
bladyblue Bommerang: abuse report court - we need to be able to file a ticker to see the abuse report court and resolve these false claims
You: read the scroll or don't
You: mute people you don't like
Lamorna Proctor: you must have a guilty conscience for some reasons, prok?
Jingyi Davies: lol
You: you can't have a group this large and amorphous and try to have Roberts Rules, it would be great, but the Lindens have proved themselves singularly unable to wield it
bladyblue Bommerang: It cant be that one Linden employee at 3Am decides to ban someone within 4 minutes of receiveing abuse reports and thats it
Aargle Zymurgy scrolls back for nasty comments
Pierce Kronos: Why not?
Aree Lulibub: Muting someone at a meeting may mean losing half of the comments
Pierce Kronos: It works for Britian [the people in parliament using Roberts have been elected, Pierce; you haven't--PN]
Jingyi Davies: would be great invention of you can make a device to do in RL... Mute resident lol lol type name.. lol search lol
You: well Aree if they trouble you and vex you with a feeling that "someone is dominating the meeting," mute them, and ease your mind
Pierce Kronos: I just think you like to run rough shod to get your way.
You: it will psychologically help you type into the scroll better : )
Aree Lulibub: I didn't say that, Prok
Aree Lulibub: But you did hijack the meeting and not much got done
Pierce Kronos agrees
Jingyi Davies: wowo look
Jingyi Davies: cool dark man
Daaneth Kivioq agrees
You: No, an enormously important thing got done
bladyblue Bommerang: Prof didnt get to say much at the Tuesday meeting
bladyblue Bommerang: so he did today
You: if you failed to see it, I guess you need to look again : )
Daaneth Kivioq: this is not the Prokofy show
Pierce Kronos: Thanks for the information Michael, Zara, we look forward to the next meeting.
Daaneth Kivioq: definitely
Allana Dion: this arguing is rather pointless guys
Jingyi Davies: any meeting in the weekend?
Zara Linden: great, thanks for coming everyone
Aree Lulibub: It was Prok's agenda, not what the meeting was intended for
Michael Linden: We'll be here on Monday. Weekend meetings ... not this weekend, maybe the next one?
Aree Lulibub: Thanks, Zara and Michael
You: Type your questions Aree and stop whining
Captain Spoonhammer: yeah lets grief him guys for talking to much!
Pierce Kronos: Bye everyone, it was interesting, lol
bladyblue Bommerang: Daaneth next Tuesday its your show if you please - thats the way of open forums
Captain Spoonhammer: show stealer!
Allana Dion: ty Michael
Lamorna Proctor: that's ok, zara, it's been... interesting
Aargle Zymurgy: thanks, Zara, Michael... and... where did the tiny go?
Allana Dion: ty Zara
Zara Linden: i hope information was clarified for you :-)
Michael Linden: Have a good weekend, all.
bladyblue Bommerang: Im off to get the runaround by Chad Linden
Aree Lulibub: Have some respect for your elders, Prok *grins*
Daaneth Kivioq: We reallu appreciate this opprtunity
You: I'm twice as old as all of them *shrugs*
Michael Linden: I'll go see the engineers about parcel ban for groups right ... now!
Daaneth Kivioq: yay!
Zara Linden: we appreciate hearing from all you :-)
Jingyi Davies: wow cool!
Jingyi Davies: group ban kick ass
Lamorna Proctor: and megaprims invaid neighbouring parcels?
Lamorna Proctor: *invading
Jingyi Davies: raise shields and invade back lol
Daaneth Kivioq: dealth with like any other abuse. Lamorna
You: Data Linden can I ask something?
Jingyi Davies: I think it is ok as long as it isnt sticking into your home..
Daaneth Kivioq: large dragons eating griefers
You: I never knew there was a Linden practice called "searching one's inventory" to see if they had things "illicit"
You: why isn't notification of this warrantless search given?
Daaneth Kivioq: large dragins eating griefers
Data Linden: You can always ask, but be aware I was only listening, not part of the governance team
Lamorna Proctor: bye everyone, nice to see you all
You: ok
Jingyi Davies: Data kick ass
You: well perhaps you can confirm or deny
Lamorna Proctor: don't take it too hard, Prok
Jeamstine Jurgis: bye Lamorna
Captain Spoonhammer: maybe you should read your terms of service?
You: I thought that if the Lindens seized your account, it automatically generated a notice
You: like for maintenance or whatever
You: but are you sayign that Lindens can enter your account any time for no reason or any reason?
Data Linden: Only if we hijack an account
Jingyi Davies: proably signed as " persian king xeres lol "
Captain Spoonhammer: READ THE TOS!!!
Jingyi Davies: haha dope..
You: well is perusing the inventory a hijack or a ....a something else?
Jingyi Davies: Hjack..
Jingyi Davies: wow
You: I read it, I want to hear them answer it
You: well it's not a hijack if it has no notice
Data Linden: That's what is called
Data Linden: *it
Jingyi Davies: omg..
You: Michael referenced searching people's inventories
bladyblue Bommerang: better send in your agenda topics for next time folks
You: I mean Id on't care if they search mine it has no guns or anything but it's creepy somehow
Astarte Artaud: I was notified when mine was hyjacked by support :)
bladyblue Bommerang: Is there a Governance Team forum thread yet?
Jingyi Davies: lol
Captain Spoonhammer: i got guns in mine
Jingyi Davies: raise shield!! red alert!
You: I'll bet Captain
Captain Spoonhammer: SEE THAT
Daaneth Kivioq: I have candy in mine
Captain Spoonhammer: DO YOU SEEE IT!?!!
Data Linden: Let me put it this way, we can't look in inventory without hijacking it
Jingyi Davies: I have guns and a lot of cool stuffs
You: hmm
Jingyi Davies: lol
Captain Spoonhammer: thats right
You: does each entry into an account automatically generate a maintenance message to the customer?
You: or can you invisibly remotely search?
Jingyi Davies: proably someone should make a self destruct device in case our inventory are compromised..
Allana Dion: Under what circumstances do you generally need to search an inventory?
Astarte Artaud: And I'm sure Pok you would prefer the giefers to have time to dipose of objects prior to search ?
Jingyi Davies: sefl destrcut Picard allfa 12345
Jingyi Davies: lol
You: well that might be a good idea, I don't know I'd have to hear the facts
Data Linden: No we need to hijack
Jingyi Davies: see lol
Jingyi Davies: we need self desctruct lol
You: Is hijacking a common practice would you say?
Data Linden: Which in case sends a notification
Allana Dion: you should probably think up another word for it *laughs*
Data Linden: No it isn't
You: how about force-copy?
Jingyi Davies: omg.. " drop out iof warp and lower your shield : ) "
Jingyi Davies: " resisant is furtile : )
Jingyi Davies: hehe
Jingyi Davies: weeee
Daaneth Kivioq: if less than 1 ohm
Data Linden: I as support do it occaisionally for the purpose of solving an avatar problem
Jingyi Davies: is there also a borg linden?
Jingyi Davies: that will be cool
Captain Spoonhammer: the nosey neighbors of SL
Captain Spoonhammer: dont do this
Captain Spoonhammer: dont do that
Data Linden: And I always ask permission of the resident first, standard procedure
Jingyi Davies: indeed : )
Jingyi Davies: state the nature of yoru emergency : )
Jingyi Davies: do you have a home here data?
You: What is I-World?
Data Linden: It is a combination of International and inworld support
Jingyi Davies: Where is you Home Data?
Jingyi Davies: is it in the old sim?
Data Linden: We are the ones who reply to your inworld support tickets
You: I guess I-World will be the thing that takes over after they close down the mainland and auctions lol
Jingyi Davies: oh you dont have home here?
Allana Dion: well I'm off
Allana Dion: enjoy all
Data Linden: My home is in Ambleside
Jingyi Davies: wow now the ground price in Ambleside has rise 10 times !
Data Linden: Ambleside is Linden only ;)
Jingyi Davies: it is quite far from the Old sims
Jingyi Davies: lol
You: Well
Jingyi Davies: aye must try to sneak in lol
You: there's my discussion club in Derwent surrounded by those Linden homes on 3 sides!
You: we got a base in your camp!
Jingyi Davies: wow Derwent?
Daaneth Kivioq: always preferred the TNG uniforms myself
You: there's that Dalton piece up for sale if people want to spend that kind of money to camp Linden spawn
You: lol
Jingyi Davies:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Ambleside/128/128/0

Comments

[HeadBurro Antfarm]

Wow... that Michael fella *really" doesn't like you!

That aside, his answers on the group feeze issue were low and beneath what we should hear from a Linden. Made him sound like a weasely 21 year old. Shocking.

[Prokofy Neva]

HeadBurro, he may not like me, and he doesn't have to. But that's not the only issue here. His being an ass about the groups and their obvious bad behaviour and taking their side is just appalling.

It's one thing if he stays silent, or mouths the company line, "I'm sorry, we can't comment on specific groups". He can show some glimmer of intelligence, as Lindens do when having to mouth the company line.

But instead, he not only aggressively mouths it; he doesn't even mouth it by in fact crossing the border into discussing a specific -- and saying, so, you don't even have ONE group in mind, do you?

The Prokofy Fan Club, aren't they an *admiring* group? And that's just plain unprofessional asshole goading. It comes from a deep-seated attitude that it's *ok* that the PNs form a group and use it to harass me and my tenants. That they aren't really guilty. That they can never be guilty just because they are attacking me is sick -- of course they are.

Note that I am not proposing shutting down groups on the basis of being named for one person. I don't oppose fan or enemy groups. If someone wants to form either a fake hate group called"Fan Club" or a real hate group called "Hate Club," I believe they should have that right. Customers and members of the public, if they don't like a landlord's services, or don't like his blog, have every right to form groups called "We Hate Prokofy Neva". That's not the issue for me.

What the issue for me is that when you see members of that group -- every single one of them -- engaged in actual griefing, prim-littering, harassment, taunting, bouncing from one banned place to another as soon as they are banned (normal people wouldn't be playing cat and mouse like that), and when your sims crash right when they arrive or depart from your sim, you have to say, Hey, Lindens, this is a group of griefers -- and the group ENABLES their griefing. So FREEZE IT so they stop having a recruitment base.

They did this once, to very salutory effects, but they got chicken in following it up and persisting because the goons themselves kept trying to rattle their guilty liberal conscience. They need to stand firm.

Ralewyn constantly says "wut wut" as part of his little patter pretending to be a British gentleman. So Wutwut Fogarty bears no relationship to Ralewyn or other goons in these groups? hello?!

[HeadBurro Antfarm]

Looks like something is rotten at the heart of it all, but I guess I shouldn't be suprised they allow you to be so badly griefed considering you got booted from the forums after an obvious stitch up.

Problem is, they are the law. Short of ditching this place for another (which is looking more and more possible every few months) I'm not sure what we can do.

They don't listen or act. I don't expect them to stop every idiot with a cage gun, but when my screen is filled with racist filth, I expect them to act. I've said it before - a failure to act or speak up against it is complicity.

[Prokofy Neva]

I don't think they allow griefing to happen to me because of the forums. And this griefing happened to everyone, across the grid this weekend -- because it's the week of November 7th, and Revolution Day.

No I think they refuse to link up the dots that show the obvious about griefing and who is doing it, because a) it comes too close to home b) it would appear as if it were "guilt by association" -- but it wouldn't really be. They'd only be able to prove it was NOT guilt by association if they could tell you everything they knew, which they would get from spying on people.

And they can't tell you that, it's against their code. So their liberalism hobbles them from performing in a normal matter.

I had an astounding convo in world with Michael Linden. The gist of it was this: I asked him where he got the idea that the land tools enable banning of groups -- they don't. They merely enable you to set to one group only, i.e. group access, and that in a sense bans everyone else.

So instead of saying, oh, ok, I was wrong, he says, oh, but our engineers tell me it's easy enough to do.

So I reply, well, if they find it easy...why don't YOU?! At the level of policy? Why only through tools, and not policy?

I noted that WutWut Fogarty used the wut wut expression that Ralewyn uses, for example.

So Michael says, well, there's a big difference between having a user ban a group for their own reason, and LL banning a group.

And they won't do it for "speech patterns". To which I explain, um, duh, we get that, but the point is, if LL were like real police, they'd use speech patterns as but one marker to help in the investigation. They wouldn't throw it out as immaterial.

[Sebastian]

Michael Linden doesn't limit himself to verbal griefing, he has completely blocked a public road in Palulop, seemingly for his own shits 'n kicks. I have reported the abuse several times, naturally absolutely nothing has been done!

[Prokofy Neva]

Is it possible it is merely blocked while he is working on it?

Have you tried filing a ticket from the web page, which works better than filing an AR from inworld?