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« A-Void-Ance | Main | Yes, Seriously, the Stupidity of People in Second Life »

March 09, 2008

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Kittydoll Oh

I went to the dock that is listed in your picks and the sign (titled SL Public Land Preserve Info) is not giving notecards. When I select edit and open the prim there is no notecard for the script to give.

Why are you as an SL "business" person blaming the customer who politley asks for information?

Prokofy Neva

Um, SL is broken. The signs in many places are not given notecards. That sign always does give notecards. It's been tested numerous times. It just happens that SL itself is not working.

There isn't a "notecard for the prim to give" doll, because it's a *networked notecard giver.* That means there is a central location (it happens to be in the tree house)that is updated regularly and updates the cards in hundreds of location so you won't see some physical card inside.

Prokofy Neva

Teleports, search, scripts, notecards, just about everything is broken tonight on SL on many, many sims. I tried repeatedly for hours trying to get all these things to work -- nado.

Why does this "customer" blame people in business in SL when it's the world that is broken?

Prokofy Neva

BTW, after the Lindens put up an "all clear" RESOLVED blog about "inworld services" I went and checked the sim. The scripts were working again and the notecard giver was giving the cards again.

No, this is a classic case of beligerent stupid people who have an overwhelming sense of entitlement, and keep imagining that the service industry is supposed to be a certain way, and indulge them, and cater to their whims, when they don't even pay anything, or pay very little. Service is important even when people don't pay very much, but that doesn't mean they get to treat you badly, deciding in outraged umbrage that you've "talked to them the wrong way" because you said, may I repeat?:

"Well, I don't know how to make it any more obvious or more clear than to have a sign, that if you click on it, it gives you a notecard. It has a hover text, too. Just land at Botany Grove, a sign will be in front of you...click on it."

If someone decides this is "rude," and that they "shouldn't be talked to this way," there isn't much you can do about them but take it rapidly to its logical conclusion and tell them to piss off.

Kittydoll Oh

"Why does this "customer" blame people in business in SL when it's the world that is broken?"

Reading over the conversations I could not see that anyone was "blaming" you. You began the negative dialog with "you seem rude and stupid, and unable to do a simple thing like click on a simple sign" I visited and found the simple sign to not work and i pointed it out.

You might have invited Tymmerie Thorne or myself to return when your scripts were running.

Prokofy Neva

Look, "kittydoll," You are so typical of entitlement-happy youth, that is absolutely heedless of your demands and manner and how you sound IN THE FIRST PLACE, and you tune in hugely selectively whenever it suits you.

Read the damn chat log.

Here's what I said, to someone who persistently sent me 3 IMs claiming they couldn't get information that I kept telling them was there in a notecard (I couldn't just push the notecard to them from inventory because SL wasn't working, notecards were saying LOADING... and I couldn't p pull up the name in search because search wasn't working.

Once again, here's what I wrote:

"Well, I don't know how to make it any more obvious or more clear than to have a sign, that if you click on it, it gives you a notecard. It has a hover text, too. Just land at Botany Grove, a sign will be in front of you...click on it."

There is NOTHING rude in that. NOTHING. The person is being told to go back and LOOK. The sign is RIGHT SMACK IN YOUR FACE when you land. I truly don't know WHAT more could be done. If it didn't rez, hey, that's SL, not me. But it does rez, along with everything else.

I then get a further garbled response from this person, and I write:

"Random Unsung: Not sure what you mean by someone's house and not available to rent, that makes no sense, try to ask a clear question."

And again -- polite, but firm. Asking that the person make sense and use logic when speaking, since they are speaking from about 10 assumptions and extrapolations not based on any basic inference from the facts in front of them.

Are there any rental boxes?

No.

Does it say anything about renting?

No.

Does it have 3 signs in 3 locations on the premises explaining it's a land preserve with camping?

Yes.

Etc.

And here's what I get back:

"Tymmerie Thorne: I'll just remove the reference to botany from my article. Thank you for your time."

See? Rudeness. Petty blackmail. Emotional blackmail. "So there! I won't write about you!"

What an ass.

And as I said:

"Random Unsung: You're stupid, you're dense, and you begin threatening rudely when you are explained something 3 times that is obvious anyway"

Look at the exasperation I get from this person from the get-go, with a sense of entitlement, and a sense of huge wrong, and a sense that someone else is to be blame -- when in fact a damn notecard giver is right in front of them:

Here's what I get, after 3 IMs explaining this:

"Hi....what cards?> I could never find any info or cards and I was there like 5 times searching.

What can you do in a case like this? You put out signs -- lots of them. Notecards -- all over. People don't click and read. Or perhaps SL doesn't work. But they could look at the AD for the land, which is on "about land" if nothing else.

EnCore Mayne

i think it all depends on what they have in their cereal.

Digado | Mapping the Metaverse

Ohh, Prok, this is a funny one - you publically accuse a person (a potential and polite customer no less) of stupidity (what a low blow to add the name) only to have to eat your words for the notecard giver not working that day (if of course that is indeed what happened, if there was no notecard/script inside as stated above it obviously wouldn't have worked any day).

Instead you go of on another rant, entertaining morning read and the reason I read your blog - thanks.

Prokofy Neva

This person isn't a polite customer. They're an ass. They are flighty, neuralgic, arrogant, like so many lightweights on the Internet, ready to mount a boycott of you and threaten you with non-publication of your innocent public service that helps numerous people just because THEY were too fucking stupid to click on a notecard giver, or realize that *SL IS BROKEN* (not the notecard giver, DUH) and to try again later.

Digado, are you totally fucking RETARDED yourself? I just explained that this is a NETWORKED OBJECT. You'd a tekkie. Can you grasp what that means? It means it has a client and server relationship -- duh!. And there is NO NOTECARD IN IT because it is the client object rezzed out locally to be served by the server which contains the notecard. I explained that in the post above.

So, sorry, not eating any words whatsoever, but you are, because you didn't read the obvious thing I wrote, but just imposed your own hatred and spin on the story, because you disliked the criticism to which I subjected you, as one of the emblematic young arrogant technolibertarians in SL. That's all!

Prokofy Neva

Here's my first response, Digago, in case you were too lazy to scroll up:

Um, SL is broken. The signs in many places are not given notecards. That sign always does give notecards. It's been tested numerous times. It just happens that SL itself is not working.

There isn't a "notecard for the prim to give" doll, because it's a *networked notecard giver.* That means there is a central location (it happens to be in the tree house)that is updated regularly and updates the cards in hundreds of location so you won't see some physical card inside.

Digado | Mapping the Metaverse

As I said - 'if it's the case', I really do not care about whatever 'tekkie' excuse you have - you still just made an ass out of yourself Prok, face it, it'll be a lot easier. None the less, entertaining, take it as a compliment.

John Lopez

"just because THEY were too fucking stupid to click on a notecard giver, or realize that *SL IS BROKEN* (not the notecard giver, DUH)"

That's a pretty fine distinction to make, especially when a comment of the nature of "I'm sorry, the notecard giver isn't working at the moment because there is a problem at Linden Lab that is out of my control; come back after the issue is listed resolved" would have been useful.

It appears that you were not aware of the nature of the problem until after the conversation, yet the customer remains "fucking stupid".

Prokofy Neva

Yes, a customer who can come to a site that has 3 notecard givers, only one of which is broken and not giving out cards because it is networked, and who can come to you and say they've been there five times and didn't see any signs or info, *is* fucking stupid, especially AFTER you've told them live, in person, the precise location where there *are* notecard givers that should work.

Look, I have a VERY high tolerance for clueless gits and people baffled by technology. Precisely because I have to wage a war for comprehension myself from asshole arrogant tekkies like yourself who refuse to make things intuitive in ways people use them.

That's precisely why I go to LOTS of trouble to have redundancy, things that work, repetitive signs, etc.

The beligerence and undertow of nastiness in a person like this is always waiting to come out, indicated by their rapid exasperation with the "I went there five times" stuff.

I mean, leave aside the problem of someone who finds an ad in SEARCH that tells you this is a public land preserve open to the public for campign, who then professes to be baffled, and not understand where the paid rentals are and the public part is.

That's a problem of stupidity likely never fixable. If someone can't land from a SEARCH ad that says PUBLIC LAND PRESERVE and realize that the site is, well, a public land preserve and not a private rentals, what can you do?

At that point, would it do any good to explain things like "Land has boundaries in SL just like in SL, turn on property lines? Figure it out"?

THEY are the ones who can say "I went there and saw the signs, but they didn't seem to click for information, one even kept saying BUSY on top (which is what it does)" or something like that.

In fact, anyone with the age this person had would know that SL is broken all the time, and that is always a likely suspect when something doesn't happen.

To act as if the provider of a FREE SERVICE FOR THE PUBLIC is to blame, and that these entitlement-happy little freaks should get special FURTHER hand-engraved invitations to understand (after they've had a few) is just fueling the problem yourself.

But not surprising, looking at the comments: those who are already pre-disposed to dislike me and my message will find fault with me in this incident. Those who have clueless customers just like this exasperating them, too, will simply see it for what it is.

See, these patterns of your absentee or over-indulgent moms are laid down deep, I realize : )

Once again, since you're unable to read, let me review the conversation again:

The first reply to the offline IM I didn't save, but basically said, "the signs are notecard givers, there are several, go up in the treehouse for the one" etc.

So for someone to answer you, after you've told them where the notecards are, with this following message, means they are pretty hard-wired for entitlement : )

Tymmerie Thorne: (Saved Sun Mar 09 16:27:10 2008) Hi....what cards?> I could never find any info or cards and I was there like 5 times searching.
Tymmerie Thorne: (Saved Sun Mar 09 16:27:48 2008) how do you know what is someone;s houe and not available to rent?
Random Unsung: Well, I don't know how to make it any more obvious or more clear than to have a sign, that if you click on it, it gives you a notecard. It has a hover text, too. Just land at Botany Grove, a sign will be in front of you...click on it.
Random Unsung: Not sure what you mean by someone's house and not available to rent, that makes no sense, try to ask a clear question.

Once again, here it is, the statement from me, which is polite, but firm, but which threw this person into a rage of emotional blackmail:

"Well, I don't know how to make it any more obvious or more clear than to have a sign, that if you click on it, it gives you a notecard. It has a hover text, too. Just land at Botany Grove, a sign will be in front of you...click on it."

The person can say "I clicked on it and it didn't work and said BUSY" -- that might be normal. That's not what they did.

Then I could say, "Well, that could be SL being broken, but fly up further, there's another one that just dispenses a card, try that."

Whereupon they could say, "OK, I got that, thanks, but it doesn't answer my question, how can I tell rentals apart from public land."

To which I could say,

"Well, I don't know how to make it any more clear. I have named the land there PUBLIC preserve open to the public for free, and if they wish to put out prims, a one-time fee and small donation -- that is what is written on the about-land menu and the search ad."

To which they can say,

"Well, I persist in not understanding where the paid and free stuff is and I don't get where I'd put out a cabin, even though there is a big field, and two cabins that other people put out already to give me the idea. Any ideas how I could be helped?"

or something like that : )

Trinity Outlander

I think you've re-quoted yourself more than enough times to get across that we are all gits,incapable of determining that SL won't give a notecard that you so cleverly locked away in a tree house somewhere. Must be quite a burden to be so smart and have to deal the stupid people of the world. Oh, btw, you shouldn't use quotation marks when describing what someone could say, only when characterizing something they DID say.
:)

Prokofy Neva

No, the notecard is in a notecard giver that is right in front of you when you land, you just have to click on it.

If that one is broken because it's networked and might break when SL is broken, there's another one a few meters right behind that one that is a regular notecard giver with the notecard inside it : )

The one in the tree house is yet a third one.

I don't have any other solution because anything involve an automatic annoying welcome mat that says WELCOME [YOUR NAME] MESSAGE is yet another laggy script, and is also annoying as hell to the person who keeps stepping on it.

Um, of course you use quotation marks for what someone *could* say, it's quoted direct speech. Should I provide some examples from published literature of such things, or do you know how to use Google, hon?

Leyla Firefly

I normaly never answer on blogs, but this catched my eye and i can't help myself but answering on this post.
About a year ago i was contacted by you Profoky because the free Freeview would not work in your TV (your TV, no one of mine ou bought). We all know how easy and userfriendl those things are (website explains detailed how to use the Freeview tv). However i took your teleport and explained to you again, proved you with a screenshot those tvs were working fine in my client, that it was you and you're Quicktime player.
But none of that could convince you.
When i finaly left all i could think was, my god, what a stupid woman!
:)

Trinity Outlander

/me chuckles

Prokofy Neva

OH, I've blogged on the idiocy of Freeview many a time.

The problem isn't the user not understanding the directions, not at all.

The directions suck, and don't explain the most important thing: that group land has to have the item deeded, and that ANOTHER PIECE (usually missing in the viral free distribution!) is required to make it work. I distribute this along with troubleshooting tips now because I have had so many frustrated tenants with that ridiculous worthless Freeview.

The other thing I tested -- calling in 4 tekkies with impeccable credentials (I recall Khamon and Desmon were among them): the thing isn't intuitive even for tekkies.

The thing that is operative and interactive isn't the thing you deed -- it's the exact opposite of the thing you deed *on every other TV inworld* just about.

Instead, you deed a thing that doesn't tell you to deed it. The thing you don't deed has hover text talking about the need for deeding...something.

And so on. It's just filled with UI idiocies from start to finish -- and instead of a simple 4-step notecard, that every other TV maker provides in SL, the lovely Ms. Foo sends you to...a website where you have to lag out and tab out of your game and read some ridiculous "manual".

You also misrepresent this story.

The incident occurred in Zephyr, more than a year ago.

The TV wasn't mine, but a tenant's.

The task was deeding it to the group -- that was easy, duh, I'd done that a million times. This was in the days when I, the landlord, had to do the deeding.

This tenant had your prim wrapped around Freeview as the inside.

And it refused to work, even following the very wonky directions that of course I knew and had used gadzillioned times, and even had the little device to do the troubleshooting.

And no doubt, one of the problem, if it weren't lag or Quicktime, which could frequently be the issue, was the presence of screenshots inside the prim that was deeded. If those weren't put in share-with-group before deeding, it sometimes would not work.

It wasn't me and my Quicktime player whatsoever. The problem was that the tenant couldn't get it to work, and the usual troubleshooting didn't work, either.

And that's the problem with the maker of Freeview and its blindly-loyal distributors: they refuse to admit they are wrong, that their instructions suck, that troubleshooting doesn't always work.

Every time I encounter a tenant bitching about Freeview, I say to them firmly:

"You have gotten what you paid for: 0."

Sofian Mannonen

Well, not a good promotion for Freeview... by the way, is there a contest for the most stupid person in Second Life?
I want to apply, I have some chance to be following you closely.

Sofian Mannonen

Well, not a good promotion for Freeview... by the way, is there a contest for the most stupid person in Second Life?
I want to apply, I have some chance to be following you closely.

Agnetha Vuckovic

"It just happens that SL itself is not working."

lol....well indeed it may be, but you know - I have lost count of the number of times SL 'not working' is almost a phenomenon in itself when it comes to conveniently explaining away some mishap.

The trouble is that the frequency with which SL does genuinely not work...tends to obscure those delightful ocassions when ( for example ) people try to 'return' an item to someone and end up ejecting them from the parcel instead. Hmmm.....big clue in that the eject option says 'Eject' and the return option says 'Return'. But dont worry if you hit the wrong option......and send your best mate flying....SL 'not working' will come to the rescue.

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