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March 26, 2008



The complete Topic digest on SL Brand and TM is here ( ).

As to telehubs, there are two things that are very questionable is SL environment from the business standpoint, namely:
1. Teleportation to ANY location - you CAN NOT build an installation for a SERVICE if you don't know where the customer will start experiencing it (landing points solve only a part of this problem).
2. 'Flying' - camera movements are THE BEST achievement of Second Life in general, there's no actual need in 'flying', there should be multiple means of transportation in the environment (for many reasons) but NO 'flying' (IMHO).

These two properties of the environment make it particularly inconvenient for a business.

Crap Mariner

I'm sure my subdomain for the blog is in violation in some way or form, so I'll just prepare a compliant alternate one with the usual snark-tone (

However, I really want to get a copy of whatever letter they plan on sending out to violators. Would look nice framed and up on the wall, next to my one from Dear Abby's attorneys. (A Dear Abby fan keeps asking how much I want for it.)

Unless, of course, they just plan on TOS-ing folks as a first step.

That would be somewhat... annoying.

Prokofy Neva


Rather than look at business theoreticals, you should look at SL itself. Have you any experience directly in it? If what you are saying is correct, the telehub model is better, because it creates a predictable experience. Not just a landint point, but a hub, a place where people will fly around and stay, or at least fly over. And they did. And business thrived. And those who think this was just due to avatar traps are silly, as they haven't studied the 40 odd hubs as I did, camping them till dawn observing them.

The idea that flying is someone objectionable is silly. Flying is the best thing about SL that makes it unlike RL. Everybody appreciates it. They simply flew and looked at the landscape before, which rolled out nicely underneath them, showing interesting things, and didn't show as grey squares or water for 5 or 10 minutes as it does now!

The Lindens knew full well that telehubs made business thrive. But that also created a bulwark of landowners and an independent, democratically organized public that was apart from them, and they instinctively reached to kill it.

For one, their pets' stores were all in the hinterlands in the core sims, not always near the hubs. So those people bitched about telehub malls taking away their business -- new land barons, new dress makers, new customers all just bypassed the core systems (this is a chronic problem for SL in general and persists, but not as bad as it did then before p2p).

So they demanded p2p to get theirs -- and stick it to the telehubs. The Lindens were also guilty about having p2p in god mode but the People not having it.

Prokofy Neva


My motto always is: "Better beg for forgiveness than ask for permission." So I would wait for them to come after you. Let them get to you, and don't lose your known traffic.

I personally registered my little SL group just to walk through the steps and be able to report on it (it was very easy and didn't seem to threaten any take-aways, just removals from putative future worlds and future registration 99 percent of the people who have SL things wouldn't be doing anyway!).

Ciaran Laval

I wonder how this is going to pan out with land rentals. I mean they are a service but heck, if you rent land on mature land then you could well find a non PG business renting from you.

Whose name is then associated with the non pg venture? The tenant, the landlord or both?

Tammy Nowotny

Sometimes flying is the only way to get around the (let me see if I got this correct) the Second Lif4e (R) virtual world. If you stay at ground level it is easy to get lost in a maze of No Entry fences, or even just to get stuck inside a building. And of course, flying is the only way (unless you know where the telport discs, if any, happen to be) to access skyboxes.

The "p2p" teleporting also comes in very handy when you're stuck... just pull up the World Map and drop yourself a short distance from where you're bogged down.

Prokofy Neva

Ciaran, the Lindens' doctrine has always been that landowners are responsible for what happens on their land -- they merely continue the analogy of real-life law to them as a service provider.

I find most people don't open the map and p2p -- my admittedly small-sampled poll shows that few use it that way, they either have friends teleport them or use search and teleport from search ads.

Part of this is because maps scare people, especially Americans who don't have them in school anymore, and part of this is because the map lags out your game.

Prokofy Neva

as I asked on Twitter, now that SL is a product, not a place, will these guys have to change their domain name:

Ciaran Laval

Prok I was talking more of the brand of the land rental model, rather than being responsible. For example if Ravenglass Rentals were to host a debate on an adult oriented theme (and you are not someone who will shy away from a debate) or a debate that contained non pg language, would this mean that Ravenglass Rentals shouldn't be associated with the new logos?

Land rental services are generally PG in their advertising but much of the content and discussion is not PG.

Prokofy Neva

You are still not making sense Ciaran at all.

Would the Lindens like to find a way to roll up the entire rentals business model? Sure. They would. Most certainly. And they're working on it.

Can they do this instantly? No, not without cutting off their revenue source.

If you are going to posit that any business in SL will be construed as damaging the Linden trademarks with non-PG behaviour, you'll have to catch a lot of fish in a very wide net. But the Lindens are working on that, by getting this age verification thing in place. Once they prosecute a few highly visible landlords for the mature behaviour happening on unmarked lands with no verification bans, they will put a chill on the rental business or even close it off, except for very filtered, sanitized partners.

Ciaran Laval

Sorry Prok, I'm referring to the fact that to obtain the inSL or SL logo your service needs to be PG oriented. They don't want the logo associated with adult business which in some ways makes sense but there's a hell of a lot of adult business here.

However maybe that is the aim and this is the way in to the sanitisation of the world.

I'm still not making sense am I!

Prokofy Neva

I didn't realize that you had to be PG_oriented to obtain that logo, I didn't realize that stipulation. The one SL group I have *is* Pg.

If someone has a service called SL Rentals -- and there are such agencies -- then yes, they may have to worry about PG activity.

But I don't see that the Lindens can use this logo operation to go after non-PG rental activity. They will pursue it more in classifieds, websites, visible symbols, not policing activity which is harder to do.

However, I do think that ultimately, as I see it now, that the way they *will* police it is to make all businesses sign contracts with them as vendors, just as if you were in a real-life carnival and had to worry about insurance, safety, labor, tax, etc. regulations and laws.

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