Meet Me in Second Life?

Crap, looking like Death Warmed Over, Velouria, and Intlibber, rendering as a gray as if he had logged in from a public terminal. Yes, I have the special advanced top secret SL 3.0 browser (a copy was secretly sent to me by an inside source) that renders all Extropians as grey so you can stop the spread of their influence.

My topic was kind of jumbled tonight, as I both wanted to discuss whether SL is really ready for -- or beneficial to -- business meetings, after getting some PR hype from a company promising to enhance this, and also reading about humdog, who died in RL, and thinking about her seminal piece Pandora's Vox, and how I came to see some truth to it, although I think my arguments against her Marxist/victimologist framework in "Boad Ho" remain valid.

But the topics while disparate do come down to whether you can use SL technologically, and spiritually or psychologically, to form relationships, whether for business or romance. There's a lot to hobble you, and yet a lot to offer as well -- and I think everybody's ideas and expressions here give you a window to the good and bad.

I have no idea why Intlibber had to parachute in to pontificate about the wonders of the Singularity and Extropianism, but I guess these born-agains take their tent revival to any sim that hasn't banned them -- and of course he will be immediately expelled as a supporter of the Woodburies and b/tards griefing me and my tenants. What an ass.

SL seems to me now like a kernel that does contain the popcorn but it's a question of whether the skillet has the right few drops of oil to start and then whether it keeps from getting the batch burnt.

SL may be best of all for meeting your true self, as Mal and Mal have discovered...

Larkum Woodget: RL relationships are odd too
ThePrincess Parisi: i think you can get what you are looking for here, just like the rest of life
Malburns Writer: Isn't Mitch kapor developing smello-cam yet?
ThePrincess Parisi: ding dong
Kevni Koolhoven: Is Prokofy here?
brinda Allen: pixel relationships?
ThePrincess Parisi gags
brinda Allen: was said brb
You: Hi
Kevni Koolhoven: thnks
Clubside Granville: Howdy Prok! We're already going!
There is no suitable surface to sit on, try another spot.
You: Well I put a sort of jumble of topics together.
Sanguinarian Dagger: well i am around this couple who i "married" in sl and they go as far as being on 24/7 and "making out" online
Nany Kayo: talking and working is relating, too.
Velouria Infinity: i do not underestimate the power of psychopatology in the minutiae, key to most successfull encounter in chat and 3D chat as

well and resulting in a sold RL relationship, we have witnessed this at our Agency
Sanguinarian Dagger: voice chat and everything
Sanguinarian Dagger: open chat i mean.
Velouria Infinity: *solid
ThePrincess Parisi: its a place to meet ppl
Kevni Koolhoven: There is no real communication in SL
ThePrincess Parisi: then you progress to rl if you want
Nany Kayo: There is communication for me here
brinda Allen: SL has been descibed asa cortoon with chat
ThePrincess Parisi: there is as muc h communication as you want
Sanguinarian Dagger: i tell em constantly that noone but themselves want to hear them make kissing noises in open voice
Larkum Woodget: you could say there'
Clubside Granville: That's why I'm going for the TV angle... easy topic to get things started!
Larkum Woodget: s no real communication in RL either
Malburns Writer: No Brinda - that's "Lively" !!!
Nany Kayo: lol
Kevni Koolhoven: hahahah @ Larkum
brinda Allen: ok i stand corrected
You: I had one of these hypervent press releases this week from a company that promised to revolutionize meetings in SL, and they had a puff

PR about how you could "collaborate on documents". So I got into a debate with the guy because of course you can't do anything of the kind

unless you tab out to another window with Googledocs, and he was going on about "web on a prim" as if that worked spectacularly, and he

hadn't actually drilled down on this and said I had gotten him to thinking how he could do this better.
Nany Kayo: see what a mess this meeting is in open chat?
Velouria Infinity: voice is the definite downer, SL is constraining more than any chat tool out there, the mechanism is different here
Sanguinarian Dagger: yup. in rl meetings cant be interrupted so easily
Sanguinarian Dagger: and everyone knows whos talking to whom
Tara Yeats: Prok - another marketing wonk pushing vaporware, eh?
You: SO that was one thing that got me to thinking about meetings. But then the death of humdog also got me back to thinking of her seminal

essay Pandora's Vox about how online communities get people to share all, and then the companies scrape all the chat and use it commercially,

and of course you are commodifying yourself when you do this.
Clubside Granville: Why do you think it's a mess Nany?
Velouria Infinity: sorta, Tara
You: yes it's a bit of that, Tara but also I think he never actually tried to collaborate on a document lol
You: I said "notecard taker" was a good thing to have lol
You: get a bunch of notecards in a prim with "taker," then...edit them! lol
Differ Darwin: RL meetings allow us to use attention allocation tricks
Clubside Granville: Yeah... notecards! Last century's whiteboard!
Velouria Infinity: if an open standard was issued for office-functions collaboration type work, I'd dig that
Velouria Infinity: that's a big downer
Larkum Woodget: I like the idea that my behaviour here is being monitored. I want to be visible
Nany Kayo: hard to follow, nearly impossible to use if important information is being posted, such as urls and email addresses that dont

coordinate with SL avatar names.
Tara Yeats: yes, I would definitely not describe SL as a place to collaborate on docs, beyond the discussion end of collaboration
Nany Kayo: piles of garbage in the way
You: oh, that's only more likely to make it more hard, not more easy, open source never makes anything easier for consumers, look at Linux, and

here we go again with this "open standards" for the salvation of mankind.
ThePrincess Parisi: i dont see sl being that important for business meetings, but in human services it has a higher use i think, because of the

anonimity factor
Kevni Koolhoven: Open Standards will never work, imho
Nany Kayo: I have taken classes here where I am struggling to copy to notecards while the whole mess is scrolling by.;
Velouria Infinity: lets say "solid and effective" office-type collabora tools prok
Differ Darwin: 8) open source isn't about making it easier for consumers
Orange Montagne: Usually in "professional" meetings the anonymity factor is dismissed anyway.
Clubside Granville: I see your point Nany, I guess I'm used to this... years ago when I bitched and bitched and bitched for voice chat because I

was coming from Xbox Live with 16 people chatting I always thought of it as social and never considered being productiuve! lol
Sanguinarian Dagger: dont get me started on salvation. ive had too many SL religious nuts try to convert my av.
Nany Kayo: mix of this and that, multiple conversations going on at once, asycronous.
Tara Yeats: Nany - what about using transcripts, or too much "noise"?
Velouria Infinity: 2 much noise indeed
Orange Montagne: Just get an alt for your business identity.
Nany Kayo: transcripts is what untitled notecards are for.
Orange Montagne: should it matter to ou.
Velouria Infinity: we discourage our clients to meet here, we were encouraging them 2 years ago
brinda Allen: ive never used voice and never will
Nany Kayo: you have to sort the mess to make it readable, though
Sanguinarian Dagger: there should be a "talking stick" for meetings, that way there would be less confusion
ThePrincess Parisi: i love to be able to read lots of things at one time, its not boring.. rl meetings are boring'
brinda Allen: if i could spell ide spel cachophany
Larkum Woodget: I'll second that never voice motion
Clubside Granville: Or copy and paste the whole transcript to a nice text editor like EditPlus, a few startegic finds-and-replaces and you have a

formatted, unstructured chat!
Nany Kayo: it doesnt work for actual business tho
ThePrincess Parisi: i love sl voice
You: why discourage them Velouria?
Velouria Infinity: true Nany, thats a big point to make
You: I haven't turned on SL Voice in literally months, nobody seems to use4 it
Velouria Infinity: no security
Clubside Granville: I love the voice to ThePrincess, but so few of the people I run into use it
Cocoanut Koala: hi y'all
Nany Kayo: voice doesnt work for urls or name spellings where case counts
Velouria Infinity: thats the point
Kevni Koolhoven: SL voice is good for some things
Cocoanut Koala: giraffe!
Nany Kayo: yes.
Orange Montagne: Velouria, cant you use a sim and close it?
Tara Yeats: Hi Coco
Velouria Infinity: nope
Nany Kayo: its good for talking to people who are building.
Cocoanut Koala: you is cute
Malburns Writer: I use voice when i can - easier for me
Sanguinarian Dagger: velouria, theres programs out that can monitor private voice chat without your permission.
Nany Kayo: but it takes more bandwidth, and its harder to set up
Orange Montagne: to outsiders? I dont think LL is reading your chatlog.
Sanguinarian Dagger: s'why i hate using it
You: you don't have to sort the mess, you don't do that in RL in a RL vocal conversation, so you learn to let it go, it's useful to peruse or search

for key words later, none of these colour coded or re-alligned chat log services ever get any use, people like reading long incoherent transcripts,

they have an endless capacity for doing that in fact
Cocoanut Koala: woops
Velouria Infinity: we are open to any sort of spying, we definitely discourage business meetings at this time in SL
Clubside Granville: lol
brinda Allen: yes they data mine looking for child play for instance
Cocoanut Koala: did nt mean to sit on you
Nany Kayo: haha. Demo of a meeting in SL in progress right here.
You: of course they are saving the chatlogs and using them for *something* they'd be foolish not to; if they don't know, they'll learn to, like

Google does
brinda Allen: yup
Velouria Infinity: and we're not happy with that but give up to system capabilities
Sanguinarian Dagger: lol sl was created to mine for private data.
You: well you can be spied on in RL, it depends on the kind of business meeting
Nany Kayo: how many threads of conversation do we have going on right now?
Sanguinarian Dagger: several nany
brinda Allen: 4 i think
Nany Kayo: I dont recognize many of the names here.
Kevni Koolhoven: 1
Orange Montagne: Right I think we agreed to be spied on in the TOS
Nany Kayo: just 4?
Tara Yeats: about 5 I'd say, Nany
Nany Kayo: lol
You: once the Lindens dole out licenses for people to have SL behind a firewall like IBM, they will take care of the chat spying issue
Nase Sleeper: hi
Clubside Granville: In regard to the topic I always enjoy these meetings here and find them productive to a point and entertaining with the late

hour off-topic babbling
Cocoanut Koala: i'm still in the giraffe conversation
Nany Kayo: oh ok
Orange Montagne: but for business meetings then why not use voice for the super-confidential stuff
Sanguinarian Dagger: and to have randome prim attachments sent suddenly up your digital ass, orange
brinda Allen: licenses
Velouria Infinity: that's way beyond what we have now unfortunately
Nany Kayo: which is the giraffe agian?
You: yes Orange we do, and we also agree even to be spied on by third parties, or rather, not to hold LL accountable for third party spying,

which is disgraceful of course
Sanguinarian Dagger: dont forget that
brinda Allen: ??
Nany Kayo: bowlofnoodle
Cocoanut Koala: bowlofnoodle!
Nany Kayo: ??
Tara Yeats: LOL Sang
Sanguinarian Dagger: sup bowlof noodle, didnt see ya there!
You: it's one of those internal contradictions, they bar the use of spying devices and make that an offense under the TOS, but they also say

they won't do anything about third-parties
Nany Kayo: hee
Orange Montagne: Sanguinarian Dagger my ass is not digital.
Nany Kayo: lol
Sanguinarian Dagger: pixelated then
Cocoanut Koala: if mine were, I'd tweak its sliders
ThePrincess Parisi: i think the helping professionals will end up really using this kind of thing ..because it adds to what can be done now..... not

so much business
You: thanks brinda
brinda Allen: yup
Nany Kayo: I think everybody is going to have to use something like this eventually, whether they want to or not.
brinda Allen: tell me about the licenses ?
ThePrincess Parisi: TOS is a joke
Kevni Koolhoven: what is the topic?
Velouria Infinity: prok, truly, LL needs to face a few core-issues here.... if they're going for me meeting my clients here they have to give up their

childish missionary proactive role, entirely
brinda Allen: to secure chat?
Tara Yeats: My sense is businesses that are distributed geographically will and are finding uses for SL that are effective
You: that's ridiculous Nany, nobody HAS to do anything of the sort
Sanguinarian Dagger: lets face it. SL is a over-glorified chat room full of alternatives to RL sex, gambling and pseudo "relationships"
Orange Montagne: pixelated is possible. But how about voice then, is it secure enough without being "behind the firewall" for all those secret

marketing ideas?
Clubside Granville: Why is that Nany? As a telecommuter for a decade I've never needed thios type of setup...
You: what is their missionary proactive role in your view Velouria?
Sanguinarian Dagger: nope, orange. anything can be monitored, recorded and modified.
Nany Kayo: I think the price of fuel and contagious diseases will make virtual worlds real popular before long
brinda Allen: protective of there own turf
Velouria Infinity: M is in the right track but 90% of his programmers are not
Nany Kayo: sorry
Kevni Koolhoven: No one will ever have to use anything like this if they dont want to
Velouria Infinity: if you know what I mean
Larkum Woodget: I dont' think SL is overglorified- I think it's underused and ill unerstood
Cocoanut Koala: contagious diseases . . .
Malburns Writer: Agreed Nany
Nany Kayo: yup
You: actually, the price of fuel and contagious diseases will make RL living rooms and porches more popular.
Nany Kayo: it will be too expensive and to dangerous to travel
Orange Montagne: Yay Nany!
brinda Allen: has for me
Cocoanut Koala: what contagious diseases
Nany Kayo: SARS
Nany Kayo: smallpox
Nany Kayo: something new
Sanguinarian Dagger: larkum, when i say overglorified i mean ppl are using it for rl things that shouldnt be done online, mainly relationships
Orange Montagne: I equate travel with contagious diseases!
Nany Kayo: wouldnt take much
Kevni Koolhoven: what? @ Sang
You: right Cocoanut, you're right to ask, how it is that suddenly we got transported to an Extropian future where everyone stay indoors because

there is a SARS epidemic or worse everywhere
ThePrincess Parisi: lol why shouldnt relationships be online
You: this is part of that dystopian future they promote so...they can be in charge lol
Larkum Woodget: yes- there are some things that it can't do for sure
Sanguinarian Dagger: anonymity is what makes SL, SL.
Nany Kayo: we end up telling eachother who we are after a while
Kevni Koolhoven: who is anonymous?
Cocoanut Koala: i don't think contagious diseases is a real biggie, even vis a vis international travel
Tara Yeats: Sanguin - I"ve lost track of the RL relationships I know about thaty formed originally in online communities
You: It's funny you say "shouldn't" Sanguinarian, because you can't stop people, they go online and do it anyway!
Nany Kayo: haha.
Differ Darwin: anonymity is overrated
ThePrincess Parisi: and anonymity is a useful thing in .. lets say the simultaneous AA meeiting going on now
Clubside Granville: Next thing you know we're on-track to Logan's Run!
Nany Kayo: contagious disease is a biggie.
You: I think the point of humdog's essay is that they are exposing themselves to treachery on all sides however
Velouria Infinity: Prok, it takes me weeks to get my clients right with all the technicalities of running SL well on their hardware, my clients cant

afford to nitpick all the peculiar and heavy demands of this infrastructure, they need a skype-like solution, they want it bad
Sanguinarian Dagger: ya i know but its simply an opinion i subscribe to.
Larkum Woodget: I worry that the fantastic freedom we enjoy now is only a temporary thing
Velouria Infinity: SL is 2 demanding
Sanguinarian Dagger: and addicting to most
Kevni Koolhoven: freedom is slavery
California Condor: After 150, it is hard to keep up with relationships.
Nany Kayo: lol
brinda Allen: it doesnt take that long
Sanguinarian Dagger: i know a girl who dumped all of her life savings inot a sl character and lives on here essentially
Nany Kayo: This is a good subject tho.
Tara Yeats: you're aging well, Calif - 150! lol
Cocoanut Koala: the giraffe has passed out
Larkum Woodget: ok Kevni- i'm going to have to ask you to expand on that...
You: I wonder if you are exaggerating the hardware issues, I don't have a fancy computer that can see Windlight, but I still manage somehow
Nany Kayo: lol
Nany Kayo: this is a fun place
Kevni Koolhoven: ... ignorance is strength ...
Cocoanut Koala: yes it is!
Kevni Koolhoven: 1984?
Velouria Infinity: Sl can't run on an average lenovo book? Forget it then
Sanguinarian Dagger: you dont need a fast or fancy computer to run windlight, they just like you to.
Clubside Granville: What kind of clients Velouria?
Sanguinarian Dagger: runs smoother
Orange Montagne: If you are in business - get a fast computer that can run SL ok?
Velouria Infinity: dont look at me, look at people who have business going and a full agenda
You: but my RL jobs, especially the geeks who are wedded to being Web 1.0 or even Web 2.0 gurus at these jobs, hate Second Life because it

seems like an "entertainment platform" as Margaret Corbit just called it on the Serious Games list, and they want to use all the other foolishness

like Wikis and Skype conferencing and all that, which is just as open to hacking, and they hate SL because it undermines their status as sherpa.
Barbarra Blair: But SL really is difficult for casual users. It takes too long to install, set up an avatar, etc.
Nany Kayo: this is working pretty good as far as lag right here. I wonder why?
You: What if your clients could meet in SL without needing you to hold their hand, Velouria?
Velouria Infinity: then forget it, Google Lively wins hands down
Nany Kayo: you cant make stuff in Lively very easily
Sanguinarian Dagger: yup, SL becomes RL to those of us addicted.
Kevni Koolhoven: c'mon, the SL client is not that difficult!
Malburns Writer: yep - SL could undermine trad status for sure Prok
Cocoanut Koala: all online stuff is rl to me
Orange Montagne: What stuff Nany?
Nany Kayo: stuff?
Nany Kayo: oh Lively
Nany Kayo: all kinds of stuff
Barbarra Blair: It is difficult for people who are not used to online games.
brinda Allen: there data that say 15 % never leave OI
Sanguinarian Dagger: and RL becomes a low resolution chore inbetween online times.
Nany Kayo: its very limited
Clubside Granville: Only 15%?
Orange Montagne: Nany Kayo: you cant make stuff in Lively very easily - they just give you lamps and chairs prefab
Larkum Woodget: SL is like a dollhouse that anyone in the world can put their doll in
Orange Montagne: at the moment
Nany Kayo: you have to use their tiny selection of avs and items
Kevni Koolhoven: Lively isn't
Velouria Infinity: it is for ppl who run budgets and need a meetup about this or that agreement and have 30 minutes for you, to me this is of

essence, they can not just login and meet me
Sanguinarian Dagger: or nukes, larkum
Sanguinarian Dagger: dont forget nukes
Malburns Writer: eeek - i hate prefabs
Barbarra Blair: Yes, VAlouria, that is right.
Larkum Woodget: LOL
You: um, Orange, I got a fast computer that could run SL six months ago, reading the specs on SL's website. And...those became quickly

obsolete to run Windlight, but I dno't have a choice, even dumbing down windlight and "turning it off" as I obviously know how to do, I have a

terrible view, with only 64 m2 visibility and lag, etc. So sorry, LL needs to stop getting out too far ahead of their customer base.
Larkum Woodget: Nuke the Dollhouse!!
Barbarra Blair: The entry time is too long.
Sanguinarian Dagger: lol
Orange Montagne: Velouria you must be kidding.
Velouria Infinity: not at all
Velouria Infinity: I'm not happy about it but I am not joking
Clubside Granville: Aw Mal, go look at that cabin of mine outside Prok's space and tell me you still hate prefabs!
California Condor: Many VW professionals are jealous of SL. The tabloids always like to say, "Move over SL because such-and-such is here

now".
Nany Kayo: We're connecting to Lively from Native Lands exhibit, barely can do anything beyond playing a YouTube video and a slide show
Loydin Tripp is Online
brinda Allen: yes i do have to say that being able to "see" 260 meters is nice
You: SL isn't for the 30 minutes meeting, which you can do just on a regular office conference call system, like any normal person, yo0u don't

need to fool with avatars -- but for other longer meetings or collaborative projects I think it has possiblities
Larkum Woodget: we all made it in here somehow- I like that SL filters out the dummies a bit
Barbarra Blair: Lively is not realy much of anything yet.
Sanguinarian Dagger: well ya gotta admit, its a hell of a lot cheaper to visit SL paris that RL paris
Sanguinarian Dagger: *than
Kevni Koolhoven: SL is more engaging for longer events
Velouria Infinity: prok, M is marketing SL just for that you say it is not fit for
Nany Kayo: SL is for hanging out with fun intelligent people from all over the world.
Orange Montagne: Well I agree with you Prokofy, that it is too far ahead. At least you can run it enough to run your business and that's

adequate to participate.
You: yes well that's why I wnated to have this topic and brainstorm on it
You: is it really any good for meetings?
Kevni Koolhoven: it makes you feel like you are "here"
You: I mean, yes and know, it has various things to offer, but it takes adaptation
Barbarra Blair: It could be, but right now it's not.
Clubside Granville: A lot of people market SL for things it's not good for! You just learn what does work and play to that!
Malburns Writer: we are havingt good meeti9ng here and now - so yes
You: what do you think it needs to become adaptable Barbarra?
Nany Kayo: yes, because you can meet cool people. But it is still kind of lame the way we have to talk here.
Sanguinarian Dagger: not always, nany. some are biggoted or have the iq of yogurt
brinda Allen: the lack of facial gestures mite be a benefit
Cocoanut Koala: agree with mal
Barbarra Blair: A quick entry, for one thing--
Orange Montagne: Train your staff to use it.
Nany Kayo: yes. Better avs.
You: yes Mal but it's because we adapted to having 12 topics at once and a big fast scroll where people just chat out whatever they feel like and

catch up as they go
You: and that just doesn't work for a person dropping in cold
Barbarra Blair: direct entry to the meeting, the ability to set Home where you don't own land, etc.
Sanguinarian Dagger: facial movement isnt hard
Larkum Woodget: I like that in SL - text chat makes it hard for one person to control the discussion
Sanguinarian Dagger: it just takes the right hud and training
Nany Kayo: I think just some ability to configure open chat would help a lot
Tara Yeats: That's fixable, Barbara - and I know people are working on it
brinda Allen: exactly
You: yes Barbarra that's a good one, being able to bookmark a home better, of course, you can join a group to do that but it's a workaround that

requires one more step
Malburns Writer: true Prok - there is learning curve you haver to take - even i am not up to speed
Cocoanut Koala: what do you mean, configure it?
Barbarra Blair: Like, a way to just take a defaut business avatar, arrive, and sit down at the meeting.
Nany Kayo: with whatever text formating makes sense to you, and the ablility to screen what you dont want to hear, or divide the conversations

into sub-threads
Cocoanut Koala: oh
Differ Darwin: David Brin talks about attention allocation tools. Add them anywhere and online meetings begin to work I think.
Sanguinarian Dagger: one thing they dont have that rl has is working toilets. brb (sry if thats tmi) lol
Nany Kayo: instant grouping or something
You: yes if you could log on to the avatar already sitting there
You: you lose people back at the OI, they can't get out there and fly to you
Barbarra Blair: Right Prokofy
Nany Kayo: group on the fly
Clubside Granville: Allow Orientation Island to be optional
Nany Kayo: hi there
Nany Kayo: who was that man sitting on me?
You: the workaround for that is having a group on an island where you have avatars anyone can log on to, groupatars, but that means a

different kind of account
Tara Yeats: Nany - you can certainly mute anything right no w in chat that you don't want to "hear"...
brinda Allen: unless you pre warn them to IM you and tp them from OI direct
Kevni Koolhoven: Orientation Island is optional
Velouria Infinity: OI should be dismantled right away, nuke em
Orange Montagne: I think it is deleted isnt it , the old OI?
Barbarra Blair: Orientation was optional when I arrived the first time.
Tara Yeats: 'me notes "orientation Island is now history"
You: I mean that's how companies solve it for famous people, they make their avatar, sit them down all ready in a skin and everything, and just

log them on, or even puppet them
Malburns Writer: OI is being abandoned now i think
Nany Kayo: I want to hear it, I just want to put it into a separtate thread.
Clubside Granville: Sorry, been a long time since I registered!
Malburns Writer: residents do them bnetter
Nany Kayo: and format it.
You: actually they only have HIs now but still that isn't necessarily any different
Barbarra Blair: Yes, Prok, we need that ability for any meeting organizer.
Orange Montagne: exactly - famous people dont even need a keyboard they use human avatar controllers!
Nany Kayo: haha
Kevni Koolhoven: The problem is bringing new people into SL
Nany Kayo: I am going to listen to some loud music and dance like a fool
Nany Kayo: see you guys : )
Clubside Granville: It would be nice to have the Events listing on the login screen, allow people to log in an go straight to the place they want to

be
Velouria Infinity: the bringing new ppl in SL is another story altogether
Malburns Writer: if you bring newbies straight to location it helps
You: well kids who play WoW or adults who played the Sims don't have these problems, they know how to avatarize, but it's a minority of the

Internet users population
Larkum Woodget: cu Nany
Tara Yeats: LOL Orange - I've been the "hands" for any number of celebrities doing online chat interviews
Barbarra Blair: Or even old people. It takes so long to rez the meeting could be half over before you see it.
Larkum Woodget: :)
Malburns Writer: can reserve time before to help them acclimatise
Orange Montagne: If you really want to meet your associates here, you are on your own to make it work unless you pay for a service.
brinda Allen: dont pic on thre olkd ppl
brinda Allen: old
Sanguinarian Dagger: back
Orange Montagne: So, like any new technology you have to be hands on or else just use a desktop service - most of which are lame
Tara Yeats: LOL - I'm looking around for my cane to thwack Barbara with, brinda ;-)
You: well I'm of two minds here, I know SL has its obstacles, but it also seems to me in the intersts of all the consulting "solution providers" to

make it seem as if it harder than it is to be able to sell their services as a "solution"
Ursula Cinquetti is Online
brinda Allen: LOL
Avatar ejected.
Velouria Infinity: that's what a business premium should be about, explain LL how to make Premium meaningful and they will "aah... ooh"
Kevni Koolhoven: that is right on Prok!
Malburns Writer: lol Prok - that's what they love
Larkum Woodget: I think it will overcome all this obfuscation in time
Orange Montagne: I'm sure Tara, but no telling who!
Clubside Granville: We'd have to get them back on the Premium idea and off the interopterability bandwagon!
brinda Allen: hmm who wants to tell the king he has no clothes?
brinda Allen: 12 million indeed
Velouria Infinity: LL has to get things straight, once and for all, to me this platform is already in a fast decay track
Kevni Koolhoven: noooo Velouria!
Velouria Infinity: yep
Kevni Koolhoven: c'mon!
Orange Montagne: Prok that's the first thing in all their press, make it seem insurmountable
Malburns Writer: maybe why lindens hired that AOL guy last week - fast scaling
Larkum Woodget: it's trying to grow through an invisible unmentionable recession
brinda Allen: many of you have been here longer than i and i see it
Barbarra Blair: People have been saying that for three years now.
Clubside Granville: Scaling a piece of shit still leaves you with a piece of shit... there are bigger fish to fry
Velouria Infinity: you say and you say it and then one day guess what... we're there
brinda Allen: amen
Second Life: You have left the group 'SL Herald Editorial'.
Velouria Infinity: LL should read St. Augustine a bit
Velouria Infinity: mandatory
Clubside Granville: So what about the other topic Prok mentioned, Relationships? Who's got the juicy stories? lol
Larkum Woodget: No one should read St Augustine- it's nonsense
Tara Yeats: Velouria - because St Augustine's "City of God" is filed in some libraries under architecture?
Velouria Infinity: down with larkum :)
California Condor: In Orange's book "Metaverse Manifesto" I read that there are two kinds of people, those who will be augmented by VR and

those who won't. But this revolution is inevitable.
Kevni Koolhoven: Relationships are impossible in SL
Malburns Writer: i have a new alt who's rather fetching actually
Larkum Woodget: XD
Something Something: One alternative to meeting in virtual worlds is telepresence. A high-bandwidth setup with high-resolution video screens.

Like chatting over webcams on steroids. People react to it as though the other person is in the same room. The problem is the high expense (five

figures for even a basic setup) and the need to have a dedicated conference room, which needs to be booked and scheduled.
Velouria Infinity: no no Kevni
Kevni Koolhoven: yes yes Velouria
Velouria Infinity: obsession is the key, SL is at the core of it
Clubside Granville: lol
Tara Yeats: Kevni - relationships can be difficult period but that doesn't mean they're impossible
Cocoanut Koala: there's an awful lot of people having relationships, for something that is impossible
brinda Allen: live with me then
Kevni Koolhoven: they are deluded, imho
Orange Montagne: thanks for the quote CA
Velouria Infinity: psychopathology is our bread and butter, relationship fly on obsessive landascapes such as this
Clubside Granville: I thought SL's core was transgendered prostitution?
Cocoanut Koala: deluded?
Velouria Infinity: just... that vehicles little business
Kevni Koolhoven: sip!
Differ Darwin: people make relationships work. we are naturals
California Condor: To paraphrase you, Orange.
Larkum Woodget: Those Dixy chicks are everywhere
brinda Allen: ok im deluded and my brain got lost at thread 5 or was it 6
brinda Allen: nite all
Kevni Koolhoven: lol brinda!
Clubside Granville: Good night!
Velouria Infinity: nini dear
Tara Yeats: nite brinda
Larkum Woodget: 'night brinda
Orange Montagne: right Something the telepresence is intersting but somehow it becomes just another cameraphone
Differ Darwin: so?
You: I was just thinking how Uri's book is in fact the ultimate commodification eh Cocoanut?
Larkum Woodget: I know- it's like living your own diary every moment
Cocoanut Koala: i would say so, prok
Malburns Writer: Agreed something - but is like needle in haystack these days - who cares?
Something Something: One problem with virtual worlds is that they are by their very nature surveillance societies. In principle, every chat

transcript, every movement and every financial transaction can be logged and datamined even decades later.
Malburns Writer: nite Brinda
Clubside Granville: Uri's "Second Life" book that's 3/4 about TSO?
You: Are these deep personal relationships on SL a chimera?
Orange Montagne: Something yes it's probelmatic.
Velouria Infinity: not at all
Tara Yeats: Prok - definitely not
Velouria Infinity: a chimera, why?
You: yes good point, Clubside, I think he just didn't have the research notes as much for SL and Walker didn't have time either, they recycled

the Herald stuff on TSo
Larkum Woodget: for some people SL relationships are their only option
Something Something: Orange, if it's high resolution enough and high bandwidth enough, it becomes psychologically the same as a face to face

meeting. People react emotionally and physiologically the same ways. It's not the same as webcam chat.
Orange Montagne: but then again, any electronic communicatin goes through something which may or may not be bugged.
You: well I was thinking what humdog wrote about people projecting images of themselves, even multiple images, and the interplay of these

projected images and the falsity of it, I guess
Kevni Koolhoven: It is definitely not the same as a webcam chat
You: When she first resurfaced with her essay, I debate it quite a bit, I thought it was overly Marxist
Clubside Granville: Not to go off on a tangent *cough* but I didn't comprehend how he didn't start the book with an SL Herald article and then

tell the story...
You: I didn't see evidence that Linden Lab was commodifying.
California Condor: Cognition is powerful in SL and VWs in general.
Orange Montagne: this is true, Something. I guess it hasnt' been tested on humans like us.
You: However, later, as the Sheep began to scrape data and sell themselves to CBS, I took her point, I came to see she was on to something,

even if not accurate about LL -- or at least, not yet
Tara Yeats: Prok - my take is, some people attempt to project fake images wherever they are... it's not unique to online or vws at all
Differ Darwin: so what if it's all bugged? We can do the same can't we?
Larkum Woodget: We commodify ourselves if it comes down to it
Velouria Infinity: see... you will find half the peeps that get here to conduct business shift over to personal entamglement... that's a prologue of

what I just said
Orange Montagne: folks i'm going afk but will be back to read!
You: Larkum, that was ultimately her point, the extreme was the woman on the Well playing both mother and daughter
You: we've all seen those Internet histrionic sagas play out
You: and Pixeleen and Uri are of course sagas themselves
Velouria Infinity: you're into Lacanian terrotory now prok
Clubside Granville: What ever became of that CSI project?
Larkum Woodget: ah ok
Velouria Infinity: lol
You: it died I think, because it didn't get a lot of sign-ups
Tara Yeats: 100 years ago those "internet histrionic sagas" played out in people's parlors
You: what is Lacanian territory?
Velouria Infinity: google it
Velouria Infinity: :)
Cocoanut Koala: i was wondering that myself
You: well yes, you just have to read Turgenev's "A Month in the Countryside" to see the precursors of Internet dramas.
Clubside Granville: Well it's not werewolves...
Larkum Woodget: One of those crazy French philosophers of the 20th C - don't worry about it
Velouria Infinity: but I did
Kevni Koolhoven: chat lag is a barrier to communication in SL
You: I think the ability to have all those private IMs going is a big killer
Amiya Walcott is Online
You: I almost think an office would have to disable this somehow or people undermine the meeting
You: of course, they do that on Blackberries now too
Differ Darwin: attention allocation is the killer
Larkum Woodget: true Prok- it makes for a snake pit
Velouria Infinity: am I sounding negative here? That's really not the core of what I've found, relationship is SL is tied to obsession, remember

that
You: well but so does email in the office, people adapt
Cocoanut Koala: well
Malburns Writer: performance is nmore important than method
Kevni Koolhoven: obsessed with email?
Cocoanut Koala: what do you mean? relationship in SL is tied with obsession?
Velouria Infinity: precisely
You: the number of manginas out there including Pixeleen of course poisons the well.
Velouria Infinity: lol
Clubside Granville: I guess it depends on expectations... since I don't plan on a business discussion, but a social one, meandering and IM

disruption probably won't matter (hopes)
Velouria Infinity: the well is poisoned from the start :))
Cocoanut Koala: what are relationships tied to obsession?
You: well has anybody here actually sat in a RL related business meeting in SL?
Cocoanut Koala: *why
You: we now have splash screens from the Company telling us to have RL business meetings in SL!
You: they even have this slogan now on their website
Kevni Koolhoven: yes, prok
Velouria Infinity: I have of course as well as many of my associates
You: which looks a little fake with those avatar pictures
Malburns Writer: yes Prok
Differ Darwin: not yet
Tara Yeats: I have, Prok
You: every time I see that, I swear the slogan is saying "Bring Your Boobs Into SL!" er we mean RL group or business, but we'll show you these

avatar boobs just so you get interested.
You: there's a disconnect in the message
Cocoanut Koala: lol
Velouria Infinity: lol
You: they shoudl have a picture of people in business suits without their boobs hanging out quite so much
Velouria Infinity: precisely
Tara Yeats: yea, there's a disconnecty in the illustrations, for sure!
Kevni Koolhoven: boobs are important in SL
Cocoanut Koala: why are relationships in SL tied to obsession?
You: or maybe not
Clubside Granville: The use of the avatar pictures always bothers me... they look worse than PlayStation 1 game characters but I think the Lab is

disturbingly proud of them
Malburns Writer: lol Prok
Tara Yeats: and without bare midriffs as well
Something Something: One story that's told about telepresence was that one person in a meeting mentioned she had to go to the washroom, and

the person on the other side starting giving her directions... to the local washroom on her end. She had absent-mindedly forgotten that the other

person was in a different city. I don't think you get that in virtual worlds. Avatars also can't capture genuine facial expressions, genuine

gestures, lip movements synchronized to voice, etc. Ultimately, corporations and medium-sized businesses will resort to telepresence for

scheduled meetings rather than setting them up in virtual worlds. On the other hand, virtual worlds will probably be preferable for impromptu

unscheduled meetings.
You: maybe the future of work is to have sexy avatars to keep you from getting bored in the staf meeting
Velouria Infinity: you see how your clients drift? You ever observed that?
Malburns Writer: maybe why Zebra went AWOL to Forterra
Larkum Woodget: Relationships in SL are tied to obsession because relationships are tied to obsession
Malburns Writer: no boobs
Cocoanut Koala: ok
You: who cares about facial expressions? if you have communication with the soul, you don't need a puppet
Velouria Infinity: bravo larkum
Velouria Infinity: bravo
You: SL in fact enables better access to the soul, precisely because there is no puppetry
Cocoanut Koala: so, relationships are, by definition, obsessions?
Kevni Koolhoven: relationships == obsession == boobs
Larkum Woodget: yep
You: they put more of that in, they will reduce in fact that access you achieve in that IM state of satori
Clubside Granville: MegaPrim Boobs?
Larkum Woodget: XD
Cocoanut Koala: depends on how long the relationship is
Cocoanut Koala: I would say the "obsession" factor dies pretty early
Kevni Koolhoven: how long is it?
You: Something, you have to ask, why bother with a silly VW? Just make video work better
California Condor: I've been to Cancun for IT training before. It is strange, Prok, to have sexyness in a meeting but really it is not all that strange.
You: by the time you have the ability to overlay stuff on to videos you watch and have it be interactive, you won't need the VW
Velouria Infinity: nope, that's one thing, in SL obsessive behavious express themselves from the start
You: you'll have better video of RL which doesn't need all that jazz
Clubside Granville: As soon as there is more fibre Prok those things will work better
Clubside Granville: Right now too many low-bandwidth nodes in the loop
Malburns Writer: obsessions are extreme relationships more like
Malburns Writer: whether with ppl, objects, fantasies
Kevni Koolhoven: Virtual Relationships are only possible in SL
You: I have to go to these awful video conferences at work, the people are always asleep in the other cities, or walk like they're on the moon, I

think they don't work
You: but people in IBM who are in the anti-Sl group push it because they have higher fidelity equipment I guess
Velouria Infinity: psychopathology is the bread and butter of our current social network and structure, not an aberration
Cocoanut Koala: that sounds fairly nuts to me
Velouria Infinity: pathology is the norm
Cocoanut Koala: very nuts, actually
Velouria Infinity: not t all
Cocoanut Koala: totally
Tara Yeats: From at least the reports from some studies, there's a "presence" element to VWs that people get that doesn't happen w/teleconfs
Tara Yeats: for meetings
Clubside Granville: And often direct route transfer. When you are a slave to a generic provider check out a traceroute to who
Larkum Woodget: lol coconut
Clubside Granville: you are talking to and watch a few "bad apples"
You: well the point about this guy hyping the marketing thing to me, is that his company was trying at least to develop some suite of services to

offer, and they will probably succeed, just as Clever Zebra or any of these companies have some success while people are still in the fascinated

hype faze
Clubside Granville: in the middle screw it up for everyone
You: what we forget is that even if New York and San Francisco marketers got over the hype, they might not have in Nebraska yet or

Baranavichi
Differ Darwin: 55/38/7 rule applies in meetings. body language/tone of voice/actual words: message content percentages
Velouria Infinity: do you see any hype left?
You: btw what's been fascinating to me is how the real story of Georgia has come out on twitter and Wired and all kinds of new fangled social

media stuff but a lot of it hasn't surfaced yet to mainstream media
Differ Darwin: Chat deprives us of 93%
You: but I couldn't find a single Georgian on SL
You: somebody is having an event about the war though, I think Russians
Clubside Granville: As you see with the Public Service announcements about converter boxes for people who still use Television antennas, just

this country alone has many communications issues to resolve
Velouria Infinity: I've been on Belmont Club for a week about the conflict
Velouria Infinity: and I recommend it
Malburns Writer: mainstream media sleeps on or is slave to own agenda
You: for the first time ever, I saw a U.S. General in a State Dept briefing getting up and talking seriously about cyberwar as a precursor and

enabler of war, it was eerie.
Velouria Infinity: thats true, saw that
Something Something: I think there's a gradual change from webcams to videoconferencing to telepresence. At some point, there's a suspension

of disbelief and you almost believe you are there. Facial expressions are important I think in business meetings that involve contracts and

negotiation. People like to try to read the other guy before they have confidence in doing business with them. That's why people spend hours

flying to another city to have face-to-face meetings rather than conference calls.
Larkum Woodget: that's what I love about Chat Differ- it's pure communication- pure logic with no "personal style"
You: well but it's adapting too Mal, the Times is putting on all the bells and whistles and acting like sk8ter dudes themselevs now with all kinds

of stuff
You: can you achieve telepresence without a VW?
Cocoanut Koala: i think you're right, something
Something Something: At some point, a difference in degree becomes a difference in kind.
Larkum Woodget: you can't be an alpha monkey in here
Velouria Infinity: the US needed old ussia to get serious about this mess. Obama is pretty fried BTW
Velouria Infinity: *Russia
You: Sarkozy had everything but the umbrella.
Tara Yeats: Something - I have found that f2f time at some point closes the gaps, and makes virtual cmu way easier subsequently
Clubside Granville: Tekepresence is just a fancy word for higher-resolution, more secure video chat
Differ Darwin: 8) pure words leave many connotations dangling.
You: well is that what you mean by it Something?
Something Something: Well "telepresence" is actually a product sold by the likes of Cisco and HP, companies like that. Cisco actually calls it

TelePresence.
Something Something: Yes, Clubside's definition is right I think.
You: but they are using some other thing that is on the flat INternet, no? webinars?
Larkum Woodget: but at least the message is not smothered by extraneous social forces
Differ Darwin: f2f provides the other 93%
You: but you can't collaborate on objects together, and manipulate objects as you can in SL
Clubside Granville: Yes Something, and in a fabulous SL cross-over the continuation episode of the CSI:NY SL episode featured Cisco

telepresence!
You: not that it is bug free etc
You: yes that was interesting they did that Clubside
Malburns Writer: telepre4sence is big, but Cisco particularly advocate future of VW - VW will be much more
Something Something: They use a dedicated setup, conference-room that needs to be booked and scheduled and costs in the five figures
You: I had never heard of that stuff until CSI, and those ads made me click through and read all that Cisco stuff
You: which had Hollywood movie directors making their movies collaboratively with other people on their laptops I think, it was cool
Velouria Infinity: ah hardware people!
You: but see won't there be some markup that goes right on the screen in time?
Something Something: I think VW and telepresence will both work for different things. Sort of like watching a movie or watching a play.
Clubside Granville: Cisco has the advantage of being one of the top Tier 1 TCP/IP providers so on secure networks they can guarantee

bandwidth
Clubside Granville: We poor schlubs are at thje mercy of god knows how many intermediary providers
Kevni Koolhoven: oh Crap!
Velouria Infinity: and until they get us to compete on secure space this platform won't succeed as the 3D Internet it ought to be
Differ Darwin: 8)
You: uh oh
You: they're coming for us
You: no man knows the hour
Larkum Woodget: we need telepresence to make a base on the moon before anyone actually has to go there
SparkleZ Dumpling is Offline
Velouria Infinity: lol
Crap Mariner: boy, do i feel dead on my feet
Clubside Granville: Have any media providers (TV studios, movie studios) offered in-world streaming content like they do on their websites

where people can sit and chat like they are in a virtual screening room?
Tara Yeats: LOL Crap
Differ Darwin: for the Moon? why?
Something Something: Larkum, the moon won't work. Speed of light issues, too much latency.
Velouria Infinity: then "what do I have to do to make them do me" lol
Carl Metropolitan is Online
You: you look just dead Crap
Larkum Woodget: telepresence allows people to operate remotely
Malburns Writer: hi Crap
ravenaire Ducatillon is Offline
Velouria Infinity: oh that Goth lag
You: I never saw that Clubside but in a way they are doing an extension of TV with L-word
Tara Yeats: Club - I don't thin k the major media has, but lots of individuals have
Tammy Nowotny is Offline
Velouria Infinity: he has it thru his liver but no blood cummin
Malburns Writer: Yes Clubside
Velouria Infinity: suspicious
SparkleZ Dumpling is Online
Clubside Granville: That's one thing I want to try... a smaller tier provider like USA Networks streaming re-runs of "Burn Notice" and people are

synced to the viewing so they can yell at the screen virtually
Differ Darwin: people can't improvise well via telepresence where tool work is concerned
Something Something: Two seconds round trip for communications with the moon. That's too long for many applications.
Velouria Infinity: Crap, seat those old bones
Differ Darwin: yup
You: wow
Tara Yeats: Differ - might that be more a result of lack of practice/experience than something hardwired?
Larkum Woodget: I dont' see how we can go there wet and organic until robots have built something substantial before hand
You: something way more important than Death Takes a Holiday!
You: Mal has a store-bought skin on!
You: help!
You: I'll bet some girl made you do that! eek!
Tara Yeats: LOOL Prok
Clubside Granville: lol
You: Tara! fess up
You: eek he has store-bought hair too!
Malburns Writer: huh?
You: my God Mal you are transformed!
Crap Mariner: With all sorts of old movies becoming public domain, the classics will compete with the new garbage nicely
Tara Yeats maintains a suitable silence
You: good work!
Velouria Infinity: distracting yep, scary no way in Hell
Malburns Writer: have been like this for while
Malburns Writer: weeks
Differ Darwin: Tara: When the VW tools give us the input we expect from our senses, I'd say it might work.
You: shows you how much I get out
You: lol
You: I have a new store-bought skin too named "Ivan" or something lol
Malburns Writer: have new alt - he's even more kool - lol
You: well we still have Something to hold up the standards of Philip-like ur-avatar!
You: wow
Something Something: heh
Larkum Woodget: I think SL works because there isn't so much input. RL is too in-your-face for a lot of folks
Tara Yeats: Differ - I'm just thinking of various creative settings/toolsl I've worked with, e.g., studio recording - it takes a while to get past the

"omg I sound like *that?!" phase
You: I can't see but a few feet in front of me
Tara Yeats: yea, his new alt is hawt!
Malburns Writer: i would not have philip hair if you paid me
You: Crap you're an IT guy in RL
You: can you see your RL office having a meeting in SL?
You: is it ready for that yet?
Tara Yeats: a good thing, Mal!
Crap Mariner: hrm.... not at this point
Velouria Infinity: he's runnign a few cron(s) it seems
Differ Darwin: Tara: 8) makese sense. We don't have the input we need for real work, though. RL might be in your face a lot, but we are evolved

for it.
You: if not why not?
Crap Mariner: we already have chats via IRC
You: IRC???
Crap Mariner: and phone call conferences.
Crap Mariner: yup
You: but I mean, you know,t he normal people, not the geeks
You: or is it all geeks at your job
Crap Mariner: we keep runnign chat channels for each department
Crap Mariner: pretty much all geeks except for the sales jerks
Angela Talamasca: once sl is more stable, yes, it is ready for inworld meetings. however it still needs to overcome its perception problem. (jmo,

from a retired cto)
You: well that sounds like a peculiarly geek solution, IRC channel
Crap Mariner: we have multiple datacenters and locations, so we have to be connected constantly
Crap Mariner: yes
Crap Mariner: and CHEAP
You: we have conference calls and people constantly send Blackberries all day, they drive me nuts, because then they don't want any document

back from me longer than 3 lines
Clubside Granville: We have plenty of non-geeks at my job but I have established enough of a divisive vibe that I get to miss meetings so I'd

never see my company doing it! except behinf my back!
You: er not sure that's progress Clubside!
You: OMG
Malburns Writer: Hello Alt
Something Something: I think it's a cultural question more than a technological question. When today's teens start hitting the workforce, or a

generation from now when they're in charge, things might be different and meeting in virtual worlds might be perfectly natural to them. It usually

takes a generation for a change like that to permeate a society.
Tara Yeats: w00t!
You: gorgeous!
Differ Darwin: cocktail parties use the short communication style too
You: yes, I see some Pygmalion at work here
Angela Talamasca: yeah, well, today's teens will be using myspace! j/k
Malburns Writer: he he
You: quite the hair on that dude
Tammy Nowotny is Online
Larkum Woodget: true Something!
Clubside Granville: I have a general question for anyone willing to comment... would I be an asshole for advertising that my Forums don't have

advertising?
Cocoanut Koala: he's such a dummythough - i think his brains are in the other guy!
Velouria Infinity: you would be
Tara Yeats: sounds like a good selling point to me, Club
Tara Yeats: LOL Coco
Larkum Woodget: Advertising is a sore point in SL Club...
Tara Yeats: Hi IntLib
Malburns Writer: Hi Intlibbr
[19:32] IntLibber Brautigan: heya
[19:32] Larkum Woodget: Advertising is a sore point in SL Club...
[19:32] Tara Yeats: Hi IntLib
[19:32] You: Hi Intlibbr
[19:32] IntLibber Brautigan: heya
[19:33] Velouria Infinity: you overestimate the negative impact of advs, thats typical of aged resis in SL, live with it
[19:33] MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Malburns Footman (1m)
[19:33] Clubside Granville: I know, and all the other non-LL Second Life forums have a LOT of advertising... but I didn't want to get blasted for

pointing out that mine don't... lol
[19:33] Velouria Infinity: yo IntL
[19:33] Larkum Woodget: I'm surprised we're not all talking about the Latest Linden Blog re Ads...
[19:33] Something Something: Maybe in the future there won't be meetings at all. People will just constantly send Twitter messages to each

other all day long, so everyone will constantly know what everyone else is up to at all times. Of course they won't actually get anything done

because they'll be too distracted from 24/7 multitasking. But by then we'll have robots doing all the actual work for us and AI doing all the actual

thinking, so it won't matter :)
[19:34] Tara Yeats: hah Something!
[19:34] Tara Yeats: posted tonight, Larkum?
[19:34] Clubside Granville: You're talking about Torley's tutorial ads Larkum?
[19:34] Angela Talamasca: something, in 25 years, if we're lucky. AI is way behind the curve.
[19:34] Differ Darwin: I want software telling me what to pay attention to.
[19:34] Velouria Infinity: whats with Torley lately he's got an island
[19:35] Larkum Woodget: no the one from last week by whatsisname Linden
[19:35] Clubside Granville: lol
[19:35] Clubside Granville: They NEED that guy!
[19:35] Angela Talamasca: i think Larkum is talking about the receent b* session regarding ad farms, etc.
[19:35] Larkum Woodget: the fluffy post that didn't really say anything
[19:35] Tara5 Oh is Online
[19:35] Tara Yeats: ah - Jack Linden's - we poked at that topic a week ago larkum... you missed it
[19:35] Larkum Woodget: with the forum that contained absolutely nothing new
[19:35] IntLibber Brautigan: lol some people will always want to be told what to do about every aspect of their lives, SL was supposed to be a

place to get away from creeping PTA-fascism
[19:35] Kevni Koolhoven politely and respectfully takes leave
[19:35] Larkum Woodget: oh
[19:35] Larkum Woodget: ok
[19:35] Larkum Woodget: I'm a slow old man
[19:36] Velouria Infinity: ooooooook
[19:36] Clubside Granville: The forum where 300 people said they agreed -- TWICE?
[19:36] Velouria Infinity: lol
[19:36] Tara Yeats: LOL Larkum - and Prok is quick on the "hot topics" ;-)
[19:36] Angela Talamasca: of course it's nothing new, if u were around when the web was in its early stages, you would see a similar

phenomenon.
[19:36] Larkum Woodget: I was watching the entire series of "The West Wing" on DVD last week- so I kind of have an excuse... maybe...
[19:37] Clubside Granville: I'm on to Fantasy Island now, Larkum... the CLASSICS!
[19:37] IntLibber Brautigan: quite so Angela, and monetizing the web is what has made it into an economic force. being anti-advertising is

seeking to de-monetize SL
[19:37] Differ Darwin: 7 years worth?
[19:37] Larkum Woodget: I was around when tv was in it's early stages LOL
[19:37] Velouria Infinity: i guess I agree with this gentleman :)
[19:38] Clubside Granville: So you respond to those ads that ask "Do you remember when TV went from Black & White to Color"?
[19:38] Velouria Infinity: you DO NOT respond, you just have to, BIOLOGICALLY
[19:38] Angela Talamasca: the ads were what was behind the dob bombs...um, dot coms.
[19:38] Larkum Woodget: advertising in SL has to with money like putting a gun in someones face and demanding a wallet has something to do

with money
[19:39] Cocoanut Koala: my younger daughter, when she was about 14, told me that watching TV, she thought the old black-and-white shows

were when the world ITSELF had no color! Then it got color, and the TV shows started being in color.
[19:39] Cocoanut Koala: that is, she told me she thought that when she was younger.
[19:39] Clubside Granville: lol
[19:39] Tara Yeats: LOL Coco!
[19:39] Angela Talamasca: in the early days, it was popups and sex sites. it's matured, bc the critical mass was finally reached.
[19:39] Angela Talamasca: my prediciton is the same will occur for 3d environs.
[19:39] Tara Yeats: true, Angela
[19:39] Clubside Granville: Well this has been a lot of fun but I actually put a solid TWO hourts of work in today and am tired!
[19:39] Clubside Granville: Thanks for the great chat!
[19:39] Differ Darwin: makes sense
[19:40] Cocoanut Koala: omg clubside!
[19:40] Tara Yeats: have fun with your meaningless tv chats, Club! ;-)
[19:40] Cocoanut Koala: that is exhausting!
[19:40] IntLibber Brautigan: IMHO the main problem on the mainland is the pastiche of adult and PG parcels and sims next to each other, there

really should be separate continents for each type of content
[19:40] Differ Darwin: 8) red light districts?
[19:40] Angela Talamasca: i agree intlibber.
[19:41] Tara Yeats: that would help, Intlib
[19:41] Angela Talamasca: there u go! lol
[19:41] You: that what zoning is intended to be i think Intlibber - but how and when and where is anyone's guess
[19:41] Tara Yeats: maybe they should just ... rearrange the mainland sims?
[19:41] Velouria Infinity: I'd love to have LL respond to all the ARs we've filed for sexbeds on PG sims we've witnessed lately, zoning is only

welkie
[19:41] IntLibber Brautigan: but as I commented on the Sl blog, zoning will drive up land prices by creating artificial scarcity in each type of use,

just as zoning increases land value sin RL
[19:41] Angela Talamasca: maybe they flip a coin?
[19:41] Velouria Infinity: land price up? no problem
[19:41] Something Something: you might be a decade away from being able to monetize the 3D web the way that the 2D web has been

monetized. The stage we're at with SL is similar to old BBSs in the 1980s running on 1200 baud modems.
[19:41] Larkum Woodget: I agree int- neighbouring sims can't have different zoning
[19:42] Cocoanut Koala: wait - cant you have a sexbed in your house on a PG sim?
[19:42] IntLibber Brautigan: nope
[19:42] Velouria Infinity: nope
[19:42] Cocoanut Koala: can you have sex in your house on a PG sim?
[19:42] IntLibber Brautigan: in a dreamland PG sim, thats ground for forfeiture
[19:42] Velouria Infinity: no
[19:42] Cocoanut Koala: !
[19:42] Larkum Woodget: does anyone thing that the monetization of the 2d web is a good thing?
[19:42] Cocoanut Koala: I didn't realize having sex in one's own house was a no-no
[19:42] IntLibber Brautigan: in fact their covenant clearly states sex is banned in PG sims
[19:43] IntLibber Brautigan: yes Larkum
[19:43] Tara Yeats: coco - just turn on your radar... and don't tell! ;-)
[19:43] Angela Talamasca: something, though i've been watching this 3d stuff for quite some time and am impressed with the progress, i agree.

we still have a long way to go.
[19:43] Differ Darwin: monetization leads to investment. necessary
[19:43] Larkum Woodget: I think it's a good thing in some ways
[19:43] IntLibber Brautigan: I think that monetizing the 3d web is a lot sooner than you think, there are some things that will make it happen:
[19:43] IntLibber Brautigan: a) web on a prim
[19:44] Larkum Woodget: but it's a shame that so much free exchange of ideas has now gone into hiding
[19:44] IntLibber Brautigan: b) voice as voip service to the whole internet and phone networks
[19:44] Angela Talamasca: Coco, you can have a sex bed/furniture in your house on a pg sim. you just can't run a sex business out of it, or run

around nekkid with your windows open.
[19:44] Larkum Woodget: especially medical data
[19:44] Something Something: Angela, in what ways are you impressed with the progress? Technologically, SL is roughly at the same place it

was in 2004 or 2005. They've rearchitected the internals a bit, but the user experience hasn't changed since then
[19:44] Cocoanut Koala: well, that's what i thought, angela
[19:44] Larkum Woodget: finding anything deep is impossible
[19:44] IntLibber Brautigan: on the contrary Something, its improved markedly since then
[19:44] IntLibber Brautigan: windlight for instance
[19:45] IntLibber Brautigan: also the inworld browser
[19:45] Tara Yeats: Lark - true, re: medical data, ;unless you have library access somewhere to get into the full articles in the journals
[19:45] Velouria Infinity: Pixeleen have a chair dear
[19:45] Cocoanut Koala: inworld browser - you mean the SEARCH I can't SCROLL?
[19:45] IntLibber Brautigan: no
[19:45] Angela Talamasca: re: web on a prim. perhaps, but that's like sayiing, okay, i'm gonna go into a 3d world so i can read 2d stuff. seem

backwards to me.
[19:45] IntLibber Brautigan: http://www.ace-exchange.com < click on that in chat history
[19:45] Larkum Woodget: and I dont' want to pay for a years subscription to get an answer on one querie!
[19:45] IntLibber Brautigan: Not quite Angela
[19:46] IntLibber Brautigan: for those of us who know the history of the WWW
[19:46] bowlofnoodle Tomorrow: web inworld allows collaborated browsing
[19:46] IntLibber Brautigan: we know that the www and html was built on top of command line and zero graphics interfaces that preexisted

Mosaic
[19:46] Angela Talamasca: the power in 3d is the visualization. in fact, i did my masters thesis on immersive environs and their impact on

society. my theory is fairly simple, people already characterize web forums as "spaces". whereas 3d spaces adds yet another dimension.
[19:47] IntLibber Brautigan: without web on a prim to provide consilience, there wont be a migration just as in the early internet there was a

migration from usenet and email lists to the later social networking sites and web forums
[19:47] Angela Talamasca: i know, intlibber, i am simply saying that the 2d bit is like saying, okay, i'm gonna get a brand new car, but use my old

tires.
[19:47] You: VW is "presence" - full stop
[19:47] IntLibber Brautigan: not quite Angela
[19:48] IntLibber Brautigan: and for sure, I always keep my tires from my old car to put on my new car if its a similar model
[19:48] Angela Talamasca: yes, that's true. bc old habits die hard. or otherwise put, people get used to a way of doing things
[19:48] IntLibber Brautigan: but its more like when you sell your car, you dont abandon your CD's in it
[19:48] Angela Talamasca: this type of comm is new for many people, and for some, perhaps even uncomfortable
[19:49] Angela Talamasca: plus, not everyone has the compute power/bandwidth
[19:49] IntLibber Brautigan: thats a simple matter of Moore's Law
[19:49] You: yes Angela - ppl are scared of the degree of immersion i think
[19:49] You: take time to grasp - some never will
[19:49] Larkum Woodget: it's uncomfortable like Brad and Janet were uncomfortable walking into the Frankenfurter mansion
[19:50] Larkum Woodget: those of us who are already Frankies have no trouble XD
[19:50] You: he he Lakum - good analogue
[19:50] IntLibber Brautigan: you have some who think anything with 3 dimensions automatically = 'game'
[19:50] Tara Yeats: LOL
[19:50] Angela Talamasca: but give them another decade, and? i think it will be old hat by them
[19:50] Angela Talamasca: then
[19:50] IntLibber Brautigan: but recall that even microsoft first thought the internet was a game and a fad
[19:50] Angela Talamasca: right, and others who think SL = a way to make money. i personally see it as an excellent venue for collaboration. but

that's just me.
[19:50] Tara Yeats: Angela - I agress - with the same caveat of there being computer/internet luddites now - some will never adapt
[19:51] Tara Yeats: agress = agree
[19:51] You: Microsoft - what a surprise. They though web would never catch on in 1995 -= doubleturn with a ywar
[19:51] Angela Talamasca: heh, at least i'm not the only one making typos! :)
[19:51] IntLibber Brautigan: those of us on the bleeding edge should never let the luddites place limitations on progress
[19:51] IntLibber Brautigan: else we'd still be in caves
[19:51] Tara Yeats: IntLib - I agree! Just noting they exist and tend to get left behind to some degree
[19:52] You: now they are talking .net to power open sims and racing to get Open sim on Xbox before Sony get Home going!
[19:52] Velouria Infinity: what do you mean by luddities IntL?
[19:52] Tara Yeats: and that some of us who hang out on part of the bleeding edge are luddites abouty other parts
[19:52] Angela Talamasca: lolol. dunderheads.
[19:52] Larkum Woodget: good point Int !
[19:52] IntLibber Brautigan: luddites are people who are anti-technology, anti-progress
[19:52] You: #luddites are human vegetablkes!
[19:53] Angela Talamasca: like i said, dunderheads. lol
[19:53] IntLibber Brautigan: those of us on the bleeding edge need to recognise that whenever we feel a luddite urge it is a sign that we need to

be expanding our minds more and are being hung up on old memes
[19:53] Cocoanut Koala: gag me with a spoon
[19:53] Angela Talamasca: seriously, though. most people are afraid of technology.
[19:53] Larkum Woodget: Luddites are people who want SL to look like a nice vanilla slice of suburbia
[19:53] Tara Yeats: oh I dunno, Int - I still can't find a compelling reason to spend $ for a cell phone
[19:54] IntLibber Brautigan: lol I only got one last year myself, but cause I live in the boonies just out of tower range
[19:54] IntLibber Brautigan: I only use it when I travel
[19:54] Tara Yeats: also in the boonies
[19:54] Angela Talamasca: but that's the whole power of sl, isn't it. that everyone can go for their own look.
[19:54] IntLibber Brautigan: right
[19:54] Larkum Woodget: oh oh I'm about to go pfft -
[19:55] IntLibber Brautigan: progress is about expanding the freedom people have to explore options
[19:55] IntLibber Brautigan: passing rules limiting what people can do is luddistic
[19:55] Angela Talamasca: exactly, and be able to explore those options without others putting them down for it. in either direction.
[19:55] Velouria Infinity: that's the divide here... on one side it's tekkies jumping in, on the other the peeps that barely grasp to get their boxes

online
[19:55] Velouria Infinity: you do not want both?
[19:55] Cocoanut Koala: heavens to mergetroid
[19:56] Angela Talamasca: we need both. just like we have both irl.
[19:56] IntLibber Brautigan: the "tekkies" (a term I despise) need to do more evangelizing
[19:56] Velouria Infinity: thats right, we do need both
[19:56] Cocoanut Koala: i think you're doing enuf for all of them, int
[19:56] Angela Talamasca: how about technodweebs? *innocent look*
[19:56] Tara Yeats: Vellour - I think when there are enough reasons to adapt, the slow adapters do
[19:56] Cocoanut Koala: and the word "evangelizing" is particularly apt
[19:56] Velouria Infinity: have U ever seen advertising on the part of LL?
[19:56] Velouria Infinity: ever?
[19:56] Cocoanut Koala: since it is all "this is this, and that is that."
[19:57] Tara Yeats: Velour - they don't need to with the user buzz that comes out of SL! LOL
[19:57] Something Something: Advertising won't do LL any good, until they can improve concurrency.
[19:57] IntLibber Brautigan: Well I've been talking about extropy and transhumanist progress for 15 years now....
[19:57] Cocoanut Koala: first off, "change" is not equivalent to "progress"
[19:57] IntLibber Brautigan: right
[19:57] Cocoanut Koala: secondly, the idea that nothing should ever be limited is particularly dysfunctional
[19:58] IntLibber Brautigan: laws against technology is change, but not progress
[19:58] Angela Talamasca: old argument. people hate change
[19:58] Velouria Infinity: and how do they improve concurrency? You imply they need to stay below the treshold because they can not afford

any better!
[19:58] Cocoanut Koala: ALL laws regulating technology are wrong?
[19:58] IntLibber Brautigan: yes
[19:58] Cocoanut Koala: ok
[19:58] Cocoanut Koala: how is it that
[19:58] Cocoanut Koala: of all things in the world
[19:58] Tara Yeats: wb Prok
[19:58] Angela Talamasca: there is a need for some regulation. just be judicious about it.
[19:58] Something Something: Google Lively might beat out LL there, because Google's proprietary architecture (BigTable, MapReduce,

whatever) is all about scalability
[19:58] Cocoanut Koala: only technology should be free of legal
[19:58] IntLibber Brautigan: it is firstly impossible to legislate against innovation and creativity
[19:58] Prokofy Neva: sorry, my meeting utility crashed
[19:58] Prokofy Neva: can someone send me the chat log
[19:58] You: wb prok
[19:58] Cocoanut Koala: should be free of legal framework?
[19:58] IntLibber Brautigan: all you succeed in doing is hamstringing your own national economy
[19:58] Prokofy Neva: I had to go to check disk and spend forever getting back on
Cocoanut Koala: how is it that
Cocoanut Koala: of all things in the world
Tara Yeats: wb Prok
Angela Talamasca: there is a need for some regulation. just be judicious about it.
Something Something: Google Lively might beat out LL there, because Google's proprietary architecture (BigTable, MapReduce, whatever) is all

about scalability
Cocoanut Koala: only technology should be free of legal
IntLibber Brautigan: it is firstly impossible to legislate against innovation and creativity
Cocoanut Koala: should be free of legal framework?
IntLibber Brautigan: all you succeed in doing is hamstringing your own national economy
You: I had to go to check disk and spend forever getting back on
IntLibber Brautigan: you leave it to competitors to bypass you
You: Um, Intlibber, you aren't welcome here due to supporting all the griefers on my land
You: bye
Avatar ejected.
Something Something: Velouria, improving concurrency is a hard problem.
Cocoanut Koala gave you New Note.
You: thanks for the log Coco
You: Luddites are actually the anti copybotters of their day, they fought for a fair wage for their craft, sound familiar?
You: they fought industrialization which would have reduced their wages, which they had fixed with a kind of craftsmen's cartel
Cocoanut Koala: This notion that any legal framework for things technical
Cocoanut Koala: is "anti-progress"
You: they aren't the evil incarnate that Wikipedian historians remember
Cocoanut Koala: against ALL other things on the planet, which operate under a legal framework
Velouria Infinity gave you at the Dam, Fri Aug 15.
Cocoanut Koala: is just astounding
Cocoanut Koala: I've met backwoods fundamentalist preachers more open-minded
You: if you need me to catch you up on what intlibber has been doing on my properties, read my blogs
Cocoanut Koala: than the proslytizing I heard from int
Cocoanut Koala: but you sent him away before I could get him to respond, prok
Velouria Infinity: what did he do?
Malburns Writer gave you Missing chat block.
Angela Talamasca: you can't really get away from a legal framework, esp considering the compositoin. unlike the web, people's spaces meld into

and sometimes annoy each others.
Cocoanut Koala: (not that he would have)
You: well IM him
Cocoanut Koala: IF you are against a person's idea, then you are a luddite, and against progress
You: I was trying to eject him when I froze
You: he is a big sponsor of Woodbury University, which is reprehensible
Cocoanut Koala: well, read the notecard I sent you of the chat
Cocoanut Koala: he was in a PULPIT
You: those people are constantly griefing me and now Shaun, who is his ally, has ad-farmed land next to my rentals and put them to sale for

$1999
Velouria Infinity: aha, then maybe Pixeleene, she was here before, was with him?
Cocoanut Koala: preachin the word
Cocoanut Koala: pixleen was here?
Velouria Infinity: yes
Cocoanut Koala: oh goodness
You: Pixeleen isn't welcome either, good lord, what's astounding is that she even creeps around my properties in person now hanging with the

b/tard griefers, anything for a story
Velouria Infinity: behind me like 15 meters on top of the right dam
You: she is sending me IMs via another person now as I have her muted, urging me to write a eulogy on the Herald for humdog
Velouria Infinity: i asked her to sit down
Cocoanut Koala: hehe
You: and I pointed out that Uri couldn't even get through HIS eulogy without taking a huge swipe at me and cocoa
You: and the person said oh, I didn't realize that at first but yes, i see your point
You: it was so gratuitous and false
Cocoanut Koala: and his swipe of me was incorrect, by the way
Cocoanut Koala: I was not a TSO cheerleader
You: because we actually campaigned for him
Cocoanut Koala: in fact, i instituted the "Free Urizenous" campaign
Angela Talamasca: lol, now that the drama is back... i have work to do. have fun!
Cocoanut Koala: sometimes I wonder about people
You: yes I was a big critic too, and what we exposed was HIS phoniness
You: on Terra Nova
Cocoanut Koala: that they don't remember things, or
Cocoanut Koala: backstab - whichever
Velouria Infinity: cya Angela
You: to think of what I have suffered for going to bat for Uri!
Cocoanut Koala: ditto
Angela Talamasca: cya, it's been real. :)
Cocoanut Koala: BIG TIME DITTO
Cocoanut Koala: even recently!
You: because all that got me was hordes of witch hunters stalking me to get my RL identity, with Uri's blessing
Cocoanut Koala: why do people want to make enemies? I can't figure that out
You: I'm amazed that he would do that, it's so gratuitous and unnecessary
You: and fake!
Velouria Infinity: i guess it reinforces their Ids
Cocoanut Koala: why would he be in a relationship, of sorts, with me, for years, then toss it out like that?
Cocoanut Koala: throw it away
You: It's all part of the drama of Internet forums of course.
Velouria Infinity: oh men surely have a brand new dock they deem secure before dumping the old knowns
Cocoanut Koala: it makes me worry - don't people realize when they dump on their old knows, they end up, ultimately, isolated?
Cocoanut Koala: *knowns
You: Imagine, Peter Ludlow comes and friends me on Facebook, to tell me that humdog has died, and then turns around and writes that crap, but

it's all of a piece I guess
Cocoanut Koala: well it's a dumb game, and it turns me off to the internet
You: you know, one of the things that Montserrat used to do is vent about Uri to me lol
You: they had a "complciated" relationship
You: for years and years, going back to the Well
Cocoanut Koala: must have, for him to insult her like he did
Velouria Infinity: i see I think... the exciting novelty factor they see into the "future" so to speak
Velouria Infinity: this is what pushes men, women as well, to jump
You: He seems to have concluded she had no graduate degree
Velouria Infinity: the exciting
Cocoanut Koala: "Imagine, even a working mother without benefit of the training of an advanced degree can still hold her own talking with the

likes of these vaunted men"
You: but that may not have been true, she was very intelligent
You: yes that was awful
Cocoanut Koala: geez
Cocoanut Koala: schmuck
You: of course other working moms that say stuff he doesn't like don't count
You: asshole
Cocoanut Koala: well that about covers that, lol
You: I'm trying to remember what Mont called herself in TSO, do you remember?
You: maybe it was Montserrat
Cocoanut Koala: yues
You: I think in fact it was, I'd have to dredge that up
Cocoanut Koala: montserrat snakeankle
You: but Snakeankle is an SL name
Cocoanut Koala: oh TSO
Cocoanut Koala: i don't know
Cocoanut Koala: didn't know she was in TSO
You: yes she was
Cocoanut Koala: listen prok
Cocoanut Koala: IF I DIE
Cocoanut Koala: which i have no plans of doing
Cocoanut Koala: make sure Uri writes no ode to me
Cocoanut Koala: i don't want one like Monserrat got
You: well if *I* die, you have my permission to eulogize me by taking a swipe at Uri!
Cocoanut Koala: hehe
Velouria Infinity: lol, you have witnesses on that lol
Cocoanut Koala: if URI dies, I will maintain a discrete silence.
You: oh, I won't
Cocoanut Koala: i know you wont, lol
Cocoanut Koala: what IS in his craw, though?
Cocoanut Koala: i think
Cocoanut Koala: it is becaue
Cocoanut Koala: you and I have decried the new SLH
You: it's odd that all her accounts are gone out of SL now
You: as if someone came and wiped them
You: or maybe she left SL a while ago
Cocoanut Koala: yet - when I did that, I always said it was due to lack of him
Cocoanut Koala: no she didn't
You: but Cindy Claveau also memorialized her as if she had just talked to her in SL
Cocoanut Koala: yeah, that
You: oh wait
You: no montserrat Snakeankle is still there
You: it's the other one "Tovar" that isn't there
Cocoanut Koala: maybe uri . . . is just losing it.
Cocoanut Koala: then i also thought
Cocoanut Koala: he did THAT
Cocoanut Koala: so we would come and comment
Malburns Writer: well folks - i nees but unplug organics - gone 4am here
Tara Yeats: well, think my day's hike in RL is demanding some qualitiy horizontal time - good discussion everyone!
You: well don't give him the satisfaction
Malburns Writer: good chat - see you soon
You: ok thanks for coming Mal
You: of course, your alt may stay and continue your fabulous existence!
Cocoanut Koala: bye mal and tara!
Velouria Infinity: cya
You: silent chap tho
Tara Yeats: LOL
Tara Yeats grabs the Footman by the collar and drags him off to the boudoir
Something Something: have to log off for the day, bye everyone...
You: lol
You: long time no see Something!
Velouria Infinity: bye Somethin
You: thanks for coming
Tara Yeats: nite folks!
Cocoanut Koala: bye something!
Something Something: thanks
You: I wonder why Intlibber even came to this meeting
Cocoanut Koala: int was going on and on, with this proclamation and that proclamation
Tara Yeats is Offline
Cocoanut Koala: and I thought, where's prok
Malburns Footman: Ooops - forgot this one
Cocoanut Koala: i looked around, you were GONE
You: heheh he talks!
Malburns Footman: goodbye from him and goodbye from me - lol
You: meh, Footman, you're a dummy
You: lol
Cocoanut Koala: well i should get back to work
You: it's funny how when Mal has two of them on, one of them doesn't have that "lived in" look
Cocoanut Koala: true
You: well I'm just furious at it all!
You: lol
Cocoanut Koala: fun convo prok!
You: ify ou had 6 weeks to live
You: would you spend it on SL or RL?
Velouria Infinity: lol
Tammy Nowotny is Online
Cocoanut Koala: i would probably spend more in real life, just getting things in order
You: I'd spend 3 on SL putting my land to sale and 3 in RL
Cocoanut Koala: but otherwise, i would live just as i always do
You: lol
Velouria Infinity: just dont think about it
Cocoanut Koala: i would do nothing different, i don't think
Velouria Infinity: dead wont be part of your life unless you do make it part of it
Cocoanut Koala: i don't plan on making it a part of it
Velouria Infinity: *death
You: I think I'd tend to spend it more with RL people is what i mean
You: but I'd come on here too
Cocoanut Koala: yeah me too
Cocoanut Koala: i mean, people here ARE real people, so - you wouldn't just drop them, ya know?
You: well exactly
You: they don't become fictitious just because they have perfect windblown hair like Mal
Cocoanut Koala: omg wait till you read that notecard i gave you
You: I have to scroll back
You: and read
Cocoanut Koala: and you will see why i was sitting here listening, then growing more concerned
Cocoanut Koala: with the PRONOUNCEMENTS
You: ok
Cocoanut Koala: i mean, it's like, culty or something!
You: I thought Intlibber was off on OpenSim these days
Cocoanut Koala: pulpit, you'll see what i mean
You: yeah he and Angel Fluffy, two most scary on SL for my money
You: too bad I missed it but I will respond on my blog
Cocoanut Koala: well, all i know is what i heard tonight - was awfully
You: what did you amke of it Orange?
Cocoanut Koala: pontifical, in a scary sort of way
You: well he is a cultist, you know, in all that Libertarian stuff
Cocoanut Koala: "Luddites are anti-tech, anti-progress people"
You: oh dear
Velouria Infinity: he's prolly ALWAYS been like that has he not?
Cocoanut Koala: "there should be no legal constraints on tech"
You: there he goes again with his PTA fascism
Velouria Infinity: he said so
You: I dont' even go to PTA meetings
You: and I should!
You: lol
Cocoanut Koala: i think he mentioned pta
Cocoanut Koala: i should have, but didn't
Cocoanut Koala: tell ya what, prok
Cocoanut Koala: i don't care how advanced the world gets
Cocoanut Koala: people will still put down women, mothers, and any sort of pta type concerns
You: so wait
You: Intlib is backing ad farms???
You: ugh
Cocoanut Koala: well he wasn't clear on that
Cocoanut Koala: just "advertising" is all I caught
You: I seem to recall he was pro ad tower
You: because he's an absolutist on capitalism
Cocoanut Koala: i kept looking for his white robes
Cocoanut Koala: but, he was dressed in black shirt and pants
You: if you own land, it's yours absolutely uber alles to do absolutely anything
Velouria Infinity: I think I agreed on what he said bout advertising
You: and if you encroach with some sort of community standard that's PTA fascism
Cocoanut Koala: i see
Velouria Infinity: but then he went onto "luddities" etc
Cocoanut Koala: it's like, to him, if it has technology in it, then it is somehow special
You: "[19:53] IntLibber Brautigan: those of us on the bleeding edge need to recognise that whenever we feel a luddite urge it is a sign that we

need to be expanding our minds more and are being hung up on old memes"
Cocoanut Koala: and different from all other human endeavers
You: ROFL
You: pompous ass
Velouria Infinity: right, there
Cocoanut Koala: i believe that is where i said, "gag me with a spoon"
Cocoanut Koala: well i really should get to work, see y'all later!
Velouria Infinity: thats clear "geeky" isolationism I think
Cocoanut Koala: *she poofs before tempted to stay longer*
You: basically he's a extropian under the Libertarian guise

Comments

[IntLibber Brautigan]

Now, I showed up because it was announced the meeting was a community discussion, but apparently you had to live up to your Stalinist PTA-fascist nature and go and ban people you dont like without rational justification.

No I dont sponsor Woodbury University, WU pays ME a good amount of money to host their campus because ignorant, dont-bother-me-with-the-facts-my-mind-is-made-up idiots like yourself have vilified a University simply because of its visitors.

Secondly, Woodbury are NOT griefers. You, Prok, are the biggest griefer in SL with your vicious, vile, venomous hate speech, your need to label and categorize anything you hate as if its part of some grand Soviet plot against your personal drive to make space monies.

A number of people have learned what a hateful fraudster you are by you recently ejecting tenants you didnt like and keeping their money. Really, Prok, WHY EXACTLY are you in SL in the first place given how much you hate technology? Why should any of us even listen to anything you say given you repeatedly get so many things so entirely wrong simply because you absolutely refuse to listen to anybody besides your little internalized commissar whispering in the back of your brain?

Finally, it is complete and utter libel for you to claim I am sending anybody after you. If I actually were, believe me, you and all of SL would know it. In fact, I have regularly and steadily warned and taught young people who might otherwise grief due to the utter boredom created by the PTA-fascist suburban insanity you promote, against griefing. WU teaches these people to be productive, creative members of SL society. Of course, it is only natural you would hate such a place, as by eliminating griefing by draining their well of manpower, we eliminate the justification for your venomous angst-ridden spite-filled nastiness. Without griefers, you are exposed simply as a bitter, nasty old lady who really should find something else to do with her life if she seems to hate second life so much. Just WHAT are you still doing here?

[Prokofy Neva]

Oh, BTW Intlibber is banned from this blog, too, for the simple reason that he causes me damage in SL, by supporting the goons and b/tards who constantly grief me and disrupt my tenants. He was also a driving force behind griefing me on the Herald, constantly inciting demonstrations to have me "fired" (er, I quit anyway), constantly heckling me in the comments.

Intlibber is a loon.

It's funny how often he says "PTA fascist", it's his favourite phrase.

That he would whitewash Woodbury at a time when their latest griefing escapades, including Shaun Altman's adfarm griefing, are so well documented, is ludicrous.

"A number of people have learned what a hateful fraudster you are by you recently ejecting tenants you didnt like and keeping their money."

I've dealt with this false propaganda in two posts. I ejected two griefers who were renting provocatively right in the middle of Ravenglass merely to harass me. They don't get a refund for doing shit like that.

My business practices in SL are well known to be good and I have happy customers and few complaints. Nobody asks where their money is, as they do for Intlibber.

There isn't any "libel" in *reporting* the presence of Intlibber, well documented with screenshots, on Fizgig's land in Furness, and many other scenes like that. Geez, pretty lame to call something so easily refuted by a truth defense as "libel".

[Perestroika Zelmanov]

"personal drive to make space monies."

what fucking irony IntLib

[Prokofy Neva]

Yeah, that was hilarious, as if Intlibber doesn't make quite the "spacebux" himself.

[Lisa]

The Duchess had been on the bridge for a while before I noticed her. I was spellbound at the sight enfolding before me. Quickly, I signaled a hand to get her some coffee and a blanket. Being soaked and begrimed myself, I asked for a cup and tried to straighten up and pay attention to my uniform. She nodded gratefully, sipping the coffee, and finally spoke: "Late, as usual, O'Toole... but ye did well, sir." I grinned, noticing just the hint of a smile on the edges of her mouth.