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« Fall-Out Continues from LL Shopping Sites Grab | Main | Typepad Borks »

January 28, 2009

Comments

Porky

I remember as a newbie Plum was my welcome area of choice, or rather i was put there and educated by the residents which used the space.

Now it's a sandbox, the rest says it's retired, not a hangout anymore little by way of help for newbies though i imagine many pass through.

One thing has puzzled me greatly since my newbie days and even now - the vehicles sandbox ran by the lindens. There's no rezzing allowed. So umm where do you test your vehicles??? If there's a rez point i guess I don't see it as i teleport in!

I wish they'd look after and keep public spaces relevant and useful to the residents of SL

Clubside Granville

Thanks to some adjacent land in the next region and some nice neighbors agreeing to a swap I now own all of Oswald, my "Fantasy Forest". The region is designed to both show that the Mainland is full of wonderful places and to serve as a public meeting place for people to hold events. I have clusters throughout the region that can handle seating for four or forty and every size in between. It's also designed to show off creations from a variety of Second Life builders to serve as inspiration for people to shop and explore.

Getting people interested in using the area is the problem (and maybe I'm naive in thinking there are groups of non-land-owners who wish to hold events), one I never faced with my sandbox back in 2006. Is it my wording for Search Places? Do I have to pay for Classifieds to attract people to a public place? I have the same problem in Bella where I own the access routes to the inner Atoll waterways and have enough free prims to let people rez their boats to go off and explore. While not the big open water of the new sea regions, the river inside the Atoll offers sights to see while boating (and unfortunately some treacherous obstacles as the Lindens allow ban lines and security orbs to overlap the public waterway).

I agree, however, and support public places and think they are important. I experienced in my sandbox enough people who wanted a place to hang out, who even created groups to keep in contact, to create a feeling that these places were needed. The problem today then is how to let people know. Do I need to try to get in the Showcase? How much more effort do I need to expend beyond the cost of creating and maintaining these spaces? I may not have the potential to dump the kind of cash into the Linden coffers as home page links to a shopping site can, but aren't those of us providing these places adding to the overall image which helps the Lindens? Shouldn't they care about public places and without eating us find a way to let the residents and potential residents find us, to get back to encouraging the exploration they so highly touted back when I joined?

Krissy Muggleston

I'm not in-world now, but I'm hoping a simple search of "Oswold" and "Durango" will lead me to these places. I look forward to checking them out. I wish you all the best with donations, I know I will donate. And I'll pass the word.

Krissy Muggleston

*Oswald

Proper spelling is key. :)

Paddy Wright

Perhaps a look at Fermi and Little Blue Sandboxes may provide some answers. Both are privately owned. Both attract genuine traffic of 30k-40k a day and an daily average of 500 visitors. At most times there are around 40 residents enjoying the facilities. These sandboxes provide a wide range of activities, are well policed and far more popular than the Linden Sandboxes. And each has very active groups.

Prokofy Neva

Thanks for your support, Krissy. You can search under SL Public Land Preserve or Durango. Not sure what the "Oswald" is from?

Krissy Muggleston

Oswald is Clubside's region, and I didn't find it in search. I did find Durango, which I enjoyed and will return to soon.

Clow Hesse

You seem talk often about brazilians in your posts Profoky, are we in a grater number than i think of? :)

Prokofy Neva

Yes, you are greater in number than you realize.

Brazil is overrepresented in SL, as you can see here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pxbDc4B2FH957sq1J6R7bRQ&gid=1

i.e. it has a greater presence in SL than it has numerically in RL.

But there are all sorts of reasons for that. It's a big burgeoning country. It took over Orkut this way, too.

Prokofy Neva

Desmond, unlike you, I'm not interested in using the great state capitalist socialist powers of the Lab to funnel customers to my doors artificially. It's just more interesting to me to see if they get there by more organic means. Maybe that's proof that I'm not really a true good little bidness avatar like yourself, I don't know.

Having seen the list of criteria to get into the gateway, I simply couldn't clear all those hurdles anyway.

The infohub battle is about getting the Lindens to establish the rule of law. They have begin to do this more (ad farms, land cutting) and have begun cooperating with residents even though it's more like cooptation (Blake Sea) so there is a faint hope that perhaps they might become civilized.

Our job in Second Life is to help civilize the Lindens and make them fit for the broader role of guiding policy in the Metaverse.

Clow Hesse

Yes i think you are right, since i joined SL in 2006 where the brazilian community was just an little flying island somewhere called vila brasil the presence became huge with the Secondlife BOOM.

There was something about SL in TV Magazines and finnaly some company brought it here and the population and business became very big.

If SL didnt had the Machine requirement it has now, a lot more brazilians would join it but hardly would be like orkut .

Thanks to share the spreadsheet good info there.

Desmond Shang

For future reference I presume the above comment was in regards to my comment here:

http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/01/so-nunue.html#comment-6a00d83451cfe069e2010536f7f543970b

I see distinct issues here, even if they overlap quite a bit.

One, your infohub battle and rule of law there. Far as I can tell that's an issue you could take up with the manager of the Mainland - now just one of many estates on the grid.

Two, the issue of who shines at doing what - and I agree, if there is a bit of specialisation we can all benefit. Service providers can shine by being just that - in fact we all shine brightest in our core specialties.

Third, the new resident gateways and participation. I think the key with these is not some strict adherence to criteria (though some basics are important) - but a 'win win' for everyone involved. New residents, the grid, the people doing the gateway. That 'win win' is the very basis of civil society in the first place.

Think of gateways as a mechanism from the service provider, to allow them *to* specialise in what they do.

Of course there are criteria, there always are. It costs $L 100 to form a group, $L 10 to upload a texture. At some point, using a tool like groups or land or gateways is not 'using the great state capitalist socialist powers' ... and just using the mechanism as it was meant to be used.

It's perfectly reasonable to have criteria for gateways - otherwise 4chan and somethingawful goons would easily redefine the grid with hellish gateways of their own, drawing off the young legions only out for mayhem and lulz. I see a bit of responsibility being exercised so that does not happen, and that's a good thing.

Think of it this way, Prok - you spend hours and hours helping residents, and could stand shoulder to shoulder with others that have gateways already.

Give it a shot, and that way the Company does what it does best, and you do what you do best. Seems that supports your plan, to me.

Prokofy Neva

Um, the Estate Manager of the Mainland, whom you imagine so haughtily as merely "one of many estate managers on the grid" is in fact YOUR big estate manager in the sky, TOO, dude. That's why you can't be afford to be so arrogant and smug about all this, and think the mainland is something you can squint at from afar through your Victorian spyglass.

The basis of civil society is not established by having one company make this ridiculously hard hoop for people to jump through -- and frankly you know full well that people have been awarded this dedicated sign-up page newbie stream without even half of the criteria met and without even a tenth of the interesting content you have in Caledon. So it's all bullshit.

The Lindens should have a range of partnerships. Anyone willing to stand on their own defended land, or on very poorly defended Linden land, and greet and help people coming into SL should be encouraged unless they are outright idiots.

The best way to encourage this is through a free market of advertising of services to newbies. The Lindens refuse to enable within their own world the same free market they so aggressively take advantage of in the real world.

But they can be pressured to open up the space somewhat.

No, Gateway is exactly what the name says on the can: Gateway. Those who are either rising on their own through the Social Darwinism of the Grid to come to the attention of the Lab, like NCI or Caledon, or those whom the Lab choses as it casts its eye about for prestigious partners who bring them cash, are the ones they want to funnel their customers too.

The problem is that these "customers" in this "funnel" are people who make up the public of the world. The world. Not the product. But the world.

4chan already redefines the grid, Desmonds. You are fucking clueless.

I have no interest in jumping through these considerable number of hoopes to become a "Gateway". Hiring 24/7 staff -- with what? My meager profits? Are you kidding?!

I have no interest in forcibly having to show "growth". Where? How? As I said, that model doesn't apply to an infohub, where the "growth" comes from LL's signups, not from me and my existing business. They are separate things.

And so on.

I don't care to be co-opted like you are, Desmond. What I want the Lab to do is not punish and obstruct people who do rise to the occasion and help newbies. And for this, I need them simply to step up on a few simple ideas. Like making it a policy not to allow bots in infohub sims because they take up space needed for real people. Like not allowing mega prims because they blight the view and lag the sim. That's all. Nothing earth-shattering here.

I also want them to give a big nod to these 14 hubs, each of which has many days 20,000 traffic on it from natural causes, not camping! and help these people fulfill their mission and not neglect or kill them.

To do so, they need to figure out how to solve the griefing problem -- and I've suggested that making a group and enabling residents to eject griefers would be a start.

In fact, this power cannot be effectively used as YOU would use it on your land. If you had a gaggle of 6 ugly avatars deliberately making themselves ugly in ridiculous get-ups, putting rocks on their head, playing sound clips and gabblign tag-lines, making suggestion or even harassing comments to newbies -- and flying under the TOS radar -- you'd make short work of them.

Such people would never get to the cell-splitting stage in Caledon. They wouldn't because anyone with private property near the infohub would eject them immediately just because they were annoying nits. You as the governor might pause for a minute and think what rule you could invoke to get rid of 6 sim-clogging idiots hobbling your mission, but in the end, you'd say "Disturbing the peace" and stop the liberal hand-wringing.

Desmond Shang

>>And for this, I need them simply to step up on a few simple ideas. Like making it a policy not to allow bots in infohub sims because they take up space needed for real people. Like not allowing mega prims because they blight the view and lag the sim. That's all. Nothing earth-shattering here.


Both of these are in service terms already, effectively. 24/7 bots - or anything staying online defeating the natural logout mechanisms was against service terms the last time I read them through, though, admittedly that was a while ago.

Megaprims also, as I understand it, aren't yet allowed on the mainland due to the potential parcel overlap and griefing problems they can create. Tacitly, smaller megaprims aren't worried about I believe, but last I heard they were only formally allowed on private isles.

It's not service terms issues, it's enforcement issues that you are facing. I too would like to see 24/7 bots gone from the grid, especially during peak hours when the average joe can't log in or function to save his life. Even if the bots are 2% of the problem, that's 2% that should be reserved for real human beings.


>>I also want them to give a big nod to these 14 hubs, each of which has many days 20,000 traffic on it from natural causes, not camping! and help these people fulfill their mission and not neglect or kill them.


Agreed, I'm amazed that any people are still struggling at helping out around them for all this time.


>>To do so, they need to figure out how to solve the griefing problem -- and I've suggested that making a group and enabling residents to eject griefers would be a start.


Well, this is a tough one coming from you, Prok. You were horrifically negative about the sailing regions getting resident control over public land, yet in mere weeks you are wanting to play ball.

And that's fine, if that's truly your philosophy, but I see some principles being surrendered here. I think you would be a great infohub manager. But at the same time, read back through your criticism of same.

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