This is apparently the future gift shop, though not marked as such, nor are there any cards here explaining *this* part. The sign says MUSEUM; it is part of the museum. The Breeze replicate appears to be fully part of the museum complex and has a display in the wing opposite this room from FLW's life. These items by Frey Bravin are for sale.
Below the fold, I'm parking a copy of the latest replies on the thread about the new Frank Lloyd Wright museum, because the Lindens are likely to remove them. Here we have Troy Vogel screaming, accusing me of defamation, and threatening legal action. Sigh. Why? Because...I asked why this museum looked like a museum of his furniture to sell his furniture in his store because....the museum is filled with his furniture and his store is right next to it. I also asked about Frey Bravin selling his furniture in the museum, and not making it clear where the proceeds are going.
It's right to ask these questions about a project that the Lindens have advertised on their "Eduscape" blog about "Education," which claims to be an "educational" project. It's normal, and just. That it would turn into this sort of raging and screeching isn't about me, but is about the recurring problem of Linden favouritism, lack of due diligence and awareness of basic ethical issues, and a culture of unaccountability among some creators who get Linden favouritism. That's all. It's always been about that, and continues to be. It never gets better. Each time an incident like this comes up, instead of seeing the Lindens answering questions simply and swiftly, we see threats, bans, and thugs. We see some residents getting their businesses favourited at expense of others. Why is this necessary? They could achieve their same goals of fronting some particularly talented people they like and feel help their world just as easily by making sure to attend to the optics and ethics.
When asked whether any of these builds involved unauthorized copying, we get a vague, incomplete, defensive and even beligerent response. I'm actually not the one who raised the issue of the designs and the copyrights -- others did, and the Lindens let it stand without comment so far. Here's all we've been given on the rights question:
Pathfinder Linden: Have you reached out to the real life estate of Frank Lloyd Wright? What do they think about this project in Second Life?
Frey Bravin: Yes, we have established contact with members of The Frank Lloyd Wright Preservation Trust and The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation, they are very supportive in our goal of exposing the works of Mr. Wright to people worldwide.
Kamael Khevious says then:
I hate to be a downer, but FLW's works
are all copyrighted by various organizations, so support from the
Frank Lloyd Wright Preservation Trust and the Frank Lloyd Wright
Foundation doesn't mean much. For example, the Western Pennsylvania
Conservancy holds the rights to the Kaufman house. While I don't know
whether the people in question have cleared the permissions for use of
things like floorplans and photos, I'd strongly suggest LL pay more
attention to possible (and I emphasize "possible" because I am NOT making accusations here) DMCA violations before publicizing builds like this one.
Cincia Singh says:
Kamael
that's not being a downer, it's due diligence. With all the drama about
DMCA in SL you would think something like this would have been
thoroughly vetted.The sign at the front entrance acknowledges two
copyright holders out of the many who have rights to FLW's materials.
Do either of them hold copyright to the structures or their likenesses.
The text in the notecard would seem to cover only the use of the name
Frank Lloyd Wright and "his" likeness ... not the likeness of the
structures.
As for the quality of the build ... not bad. It's not what I would call "intricately detailed" though.
Frey then says:
Let me assure you, before this project
was started I went out of my way to ensure that there would be no
potential copyright and /or licence issue.
Well, do you have the rights to the *buildings replicated with prims in SL* or not? Or just to the pictures of FLW and his buildings in RL? I agree with Cincia that what is given out on site isn't sufficient to clarify this matter.
Frey tried to TP me and wrangle me into an argument inworld and demanded to give me a tour, but I'm not interested in getting harangued. I went back later and confirmed: inside the museum there is a store with the sign Frank Lloyd Wright with four pieces of his furniture for sale. For sale. With proceeds to go to him. And no notecard that says anything different.
What he is literalizing about, evidently, is his concept that the Breeze replication is "not the museum". Huh? That's a strange thing to be claiming about a room off the foyer that has a big sign FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT MUSEUM on it. Hello? And...the entire area is a museum, of both pictures and history posters on the wall and the builds themselves. Suddenly, the Breeze replica 'isn't part of the museum"? but that's not how it is presented or described.
And once again: it's *OK* to sell content in this museum, or in the replicas of the buildings adjacent to what Frey might somehow formally call only "the museum," but...it's not clear that the proceeds go to him personally, or the tier. And once again, I confirmed that Troy Vogel's store is just a few meters away from the entrance.
Here's another aspect of all this: if you follow the link in the Linden blog, you land here at the main entrance of the museum:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/DiLemma%20City/60/241/22
That's where I landed the first time, and remembered the name of the sim, "Dilemma".
The next time I came, I typed Dilemma into the map, so as not to have to go looking for the blog SLURL again, and now I landed here, in front of the main entrance *to Breeze*, which is behind the large main building of the museum:
http://slurl.com/secondlife/DiLemma%20City/128/128/21
which is right in front of the Breeze, and the furniture for sale, and kitty-korner to Troy's store.
Looking at the sim's entire layout, I would have to say it defies the imagination not to call the Breeze building part of the Museum. After all, as you walk into this building, it has displays of FLW's buildings and cards about his life and a guestbook on the one wing. Hello! That's a museum! Right across the foyer there is what perhaps will be a "gift shop" but isn't labelled as such and has signs that say, as I've reiterated, "FLW Museum". All of this is in the same complex, with the same FLW designs on the roof as the rest of the build.
In any event, if they'd like to take lessons on literalism and distraction, they can go see Dale Innis, I think it's obvious to anyone who visits the sim: it's a furniture store mall connected to a museum, and the relationship of the stores and their creators and the sales and the museum upkeep *are not clear*.They see it differently -- as a museum with some furniture stores connected to it perfectly legitimately and a gift shop that they have in their mind that didn't open yet or get built -- because they are inside the project, and they don't care how they look to the outside. They have their little coterie of friends; they have their Lindens; apparently they even have the real FLW trust. This is Second Life.
I'll be interested -- but in a weary sort of way -- to see what happens next. No doubt Blue will simply erase all the comments because Troy threatens criminal action and I answer his threats. And he'll lock the thread. He may or may not ban me; it's immaterial. If Blue attempts to give me a little talk inworld, I will mute him. Wait, you can't do that to Lindens. Well, I simply will log off.
I couldn'lt help thinking of how this was somewhat of a replay of four years ago, when I was banned also for speaking out about favouritism, and also about a Pathfinder thread. Back then, Pathfinder was smarmily touting a scholarly journal with an article mentioning several SL residents, the usual favourites, Aimee Weber, FlipperPA Peregrine, and Cubey Terra. The whole reason those particular much-feted and much-displayed FIC, constantly on the website front page and pitched in the news constantly by the Lindens, could end up in this article, was because they were...fronted by the Lindens. This scholar, Betsy Book, who happened to go on and become the VP of There.com, didn't just happen to notice them -- they were pitched. As if this was favouritism enough, Pathfinder flogged it *some more* by exclaiming about the piece on the forums in the sort of boosting for the Lindens have become famous.
The article was about how to succeed in business in Second Life. So I responded in another thread (because the first one was hopelessly sidetracked) by noting that if you wanted to succeed, getting the Lindens to pitch you to their friends, and then after the article comes out, boost it on the forums, would ensure maximum success for your business. I was savaged with hateful posts by all the FIC of the day who were pals with the Lindens and the feted ones, and I noted, in passing, that Aimee's name was "like" "every prom queen you love to hate", and that was part of her brand. I made one more post about the danger of monopolies in SL (some of which went on to become in fact monopolies, and one key one, Slexchange.com, was bought out by the Lindens and became the Lindens' own shopping site XStreetsl.com). (BTW, I also uncovered this gem of Torley flogging Aimee's panties.)
I'd like to think that in five years, the Lindens have grown up. That they can no longer cave to screeching bullying over-entitled children that they've spoiled rotten. That they are capable of mature moderation, and differentiating between somebody screeching about "libel" and the actual state of affairs, which is the optics of this sim aren't good and they need to make it right as they've linked their brand to it. You would *hope* that Blue, as beaten down as he is in the Linden setting, will be able to come on and say something like "We've determined that the materials used from FLW are done with permission, and we're inquiring about the replicas of the builds" -- because frankly, Frey nor the Lindens have answered that adequately --there's a different between pictures from the Trust about FLW's life and his RL buildings, and replicas in SL -- we can't be sure the FLW Trust understands that - it's not been explicated. In fact, the defensiveness of Frey and curtness of the answer only raises more questions.
Next, you'd hope Blue would say something like "We want to assure everyone that the tip jars go to supporting the museum, which is a non-profit venture, and that residents who have donated their furniture and time to the work of the museum have also put their stores on this sim, so if you want to shop for furniture inspired by FLW, you can help support SL's craftsmen as well". But that sort of finesse and maturity is likey beyond the Lindens, and they are likely to use far cruder methods of simply removing everything, and evening using ban sticks.
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