Stalinism (UPDATED)

Prof. Robert Bloomfield of Cornell University (Beyers Sellers in SL), head of Metanomics, at the Woodbury-organized griefing expedition to RL Linden Lab, waving a drink above the tag BAN PROK.

Wow, Second Life can be so damn *creepy*. What's worse, the griefers -- who are expected -- the ageplayers -- who are expected -- or the faux liberals, who you'd think would at least draw the line at crime, even if they want to eterntally give the benefit of the doubt to terrorists with unhappy childhood. Oh, excuse me. I mean, erm, "militants". No, let's try it again: radical students. Radical chic students. And, oh, hey, professors! Radical chick professors, too!

Naturally the Woodburies showed up to grief my meeting tonight on the subject of group guilt by association, and associating with guilty groups. And meanwhile, another drama was unfolding, as Carl Metropolitan had ruled, finally, as we can see from the comments (I repaste here below the fold) on the Imnotgoing Sideways problems, and as a result, had half of his board quit. If I were him, I would have have stayed with the right-thinking half of the board who grasped that you can't have griefer groups in your midst. In fact, given IMG's profile of ageplay edgecasing, I would have never even brought him into the group to start with, and if that sort of profile appeared or was noticed after the fact, I'd say, sorry, that's inappropriate, and we can't have that here, move along, go find some other way to, uh, "help newbies".

Freedom of association is about being able to pick and chose who you want in your group by the criteria that you see fit, under the law. It also means that you can't hide behind that freedom to endlessly expect to be given a pass if you commit violations of law. In the U.S., freedom of expression and freedom of association will usually trump anti-discrimination law or regulations; i.e., the Boy Scouts of America, in a landmark court case, got to reject open homosexuals from their group. Was that the right thing for them to do? Well, I wouldn't want that to be a criteria in a group I was in, because I think a group should tolerate gays. But that's not what this is about; it's about a law principle, which is that if you don't want gays in your group, and you are a voluntary group, i.e. not some state employer or public institution, you are not required to be forced to end your discrimination or change your beliefs. There are other cases fighting that sort of test, i.e. women in clubs that traditionally only had men.

In our little world, this particular story was for Carl somehow induced by the 4chan malice of wishing me to commit suicide -- let's not forget that Woodbury openly embraces 4chan now; it used to be that they just sort of accepted it but didn't advertise it, and you had to look to find it; now it is brazenly on Tizzy's profile, and he even made an SL version slchan.com -- which I wouldn't advise you to browse if you don't want bugs.

Helena, who is usually a lot wittier and more enthusiastic about my classic liberal ideas was a particularly whiney bitch tonight. Why? Because somehow, she got a burr in her saddle that she had to play the Inquisitor and constantly quiz *me* on my liberal bona fides. She was terribly worried lest I be making a false accusation of an innocent party. Blah blah. She was terribly concerned that some "guilt by association occur" in this matter. She totally didn't get it simply because she didn't sit still and read my blog for the last week.

Let's go over the basics again: I don't make an accusation of who did this chalking. So I don't make a "false" accusation because I have no idea who did this chalking. That has not been my concern, who did this chalking. What we know about this chalking is that Loki Clifton says "The Lindens did it" and somebody else says "we thought the Lindens allowed residents to come do this" and others say "everybody was there and everybody did it" and people like Hydroe who was sober enough to write his own name on the wall claims he "didn't see" who wrote Ban Prok -- it might have been Meif Ling, who wrote his name under it with a w-hat sign; it might have been anybody. Who knows? Nobody is talking. But that's not what this issue is about. It doesn't matter if you can find the smoking gun of who did it. What matters is that *the Woodburies deliberately set this up to rope the Lindens into the appearance of vandalism, making it appear as if they condoned something that they didn't quite condone, at least as a corporate entity, although some of their more feral members in the code cave may have.

If Lindens come out and shake the hand of Woodbury staff who believe they have Linden sanction to chalk (and given that the Lindens shook their hands and then they chalked, they sure as hell seemed to have that), then...what does that mean? It means that some Lindens, coding or grid monkeying on a Saturday night when the party bus rolls up on a public street look the other way, don't care, think it's funny, whatever, and then "everybody" does it. the Woodburies are keen to implicate EVERYBODY so everybody is made a little bit wrong. Lindens, big and small, Philip and Kona. Famous people like Crap or Eshi or Filthy Fluno who chalked too, or SecondLie, the Twitterer. Infamous griefers like Tizzy and the rest of the creeps.

Then, the next day, the blogs and the pictures. And "everybody did it" and "the Lindens said it was ok" and "BAN PROK" -- which is what I care about because it incites griefing against me with impunity. It unleashed a tide of harassment of me as bad as I've seen in years, causing move-outs and causing me loss of business, particularly with the chicken kill.

Why did those creeps feel motivated to write BAN PROK! on their building? I suppose it was because I criticize opensource extremism, and boycotted SLCC over the immoral choice of a keynoter, Ray Kurzweil. Ultimately, these, er, "progressive" extremists and lovers of the "open" show their hand by their call to BAN PROK lol.

For some reason bladyblue Bommerang began trying to engage these griefers deluging my meeting in Voice and trying to reason with them -- I never do that. Not advisable. Legitimates them. And she said that the Lindens and Woodbury should issue a press release like Carl did

The reason half the board of NCI could quit is not only over politically correct "principles" that aren't principles but caving to criminality. It's because...they don't really see anything wrong with IMG's vulgar and disgusting profile, number one, and number two, they don't see anything wrong with him being in Woodbury, which they think is a hoot and sort of edgy or at worst a mere annoyance. They think it's not serious, or shouldn't be taken seriously, and that I'm a problem, not them. That's what that was about -- and of course, a lot of ignorant old women in NCI, of the type I had to wrangle with endlessly when I banned IMG, whining that he was such a good person and helped newbies blah blah -- and of course, that was what it was about: worming in, trying to go legit, trying to make ageplay and Woodbury respectable. It's like the time Plastic Duck went to help Relay for Life. Sigh.

[15:03]  Prokofy Neva: Um, Tizzers dear, you and your griefing friends cannot rent on my land, you are not welcome because you harass me and my tenants. You wILL NOT get refunds when you grief by renting. Bye!
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[15:13]  Jim Korpov: lag

[18:32]  brinda Allen: Hi prok :-)
[18:38]  Prokofy Neva: hi
[18:38]  Rocket Sellers: hi
[18:38]  brinda Allen: :-)
[18:39]  Avatar ejected.
[18:40]  Prokofy Neva: Discrete Dreamscape is ejected for chicken killing.
[18:40]  Prokofy Neva: Kovino Firehawk as well, for repeat griefing
[18:40]  Avatar ejected.
[18:40]  Anjelie Daehlie looks confused
[18:40]  Prokofy Neva: they're all going to deluge in and whine about their rights and how you should never engage in guilt by association, but of course, they've all been documented repeatedly and individually as griefing and harassing
[18:41]  Prokofy Neva: they're going to keep up the word salading tho
[18:41]  brinda Allen: Hi club :-)
[18:41]  Clubside Granville: Howdy!
[18:41]  Prokofy Neva: Hi Club
[18:41]  Prokofy Neva: Hi Helena
[18:42]  Prokofy Neva: Did I see you at that MacArthur event?
[18:42]  Helena Whittlesea: heya prok and all
[18:42]  Helena Whittlesea: i was there, yes! i waved to you
[18:42]  brinda Allen: Hi helena
[18:42]  Helena Whittlesea: then got a phone call in the midst and could only pay half attention, booo
[18:43]  Helena Whittlesea: hi brinda
[18:43]  Clubside Granville: I guess I rarely look at groups myself, except if I can use them to peek at a last login date...lol
[18:43]  Helena Whittlesea: do you only see that if you're a member of the grp in question club?
[18:43]  courageous Chrome: lol
[18:43]  Prokofy Neva: well you have to in the rental business to try to see if you will have griefers
[18:44]  Helena Whittlesea: robertklein? i love robertklein!
[18:44]  brinda Allen: I always loook at groups even if there just passin thru
[18:44]  Helena Whittlesea: is that a reliable indication, prok, about potential griefing
[18:44]  Prokofy Neva: well it's just a wild guess, Helena, but a group called Bolshevik Poultry Exterminator Corp or BAN PROK!
[18:44]  Prokofy Neva: of course I *might* be wrong
[18:45]  Helena Whittlesea: i do too if i think of it brinda! sometimes i still don't think to even look at profiles, which is a little odd but completely true even after... 2-1/2 years i think now
[18:45]  Prokofy Neva: but I think it's safe to say they will be griefers : )
[18:45]  Helena Whittlesea: hah!
[18:45]  Helena Whittlesea: yeah those might be hints huh prok
[18:45]  Helena Whittlesea: hey honey
[18:45]  Clubside Granville: I wish, with open groups, you could have a ban list like any parcel, so you could keep it open but exclude the troublemakers... though I guess it could get long...lol
[18:45]  Ash Marat: hey honey
[18:45]  Ash Marat: hello prok, all
[18:45]  Prokofy Neva: Hi Ash
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: Discrete Dreamscape is one of the nastiest griefers I've seen in SL, killing 50 chickens deliberately and harassing me endlessly with his groupies
[18:46]  Prokofy Neva: there's another one
[18:46]  Avatar ejected.
[18:46]  Helena Whittlesea: this being the topic of course i'm going to look at every profile of every person present and closely scrutinize all their groups. ; )
[18:47]  Helena Whittlesea: these people here?
[18:47]  Helena Whittlesea: maybe they get bored easily
[18:47]  courageous Chrome: lol
[18:47]  Prokofy Neva: Discrete Dreamscape lies about the Emerald viewer and disavows responsibility for the the thuggish Thuglyfe created from it and all its hacks and exploits, irresponsible
[18:47]  Helena Whittlesea: that happens with boring people
[18:47]  Prokofy Neva: well the big news is that Carl Metropolitan has done something very important
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: he has banned from working in NCI anyone who is in a hate group
[18:48]  Clubside Granville: Cool
[18:48]  Anjelie Daehlie is getting a little nervous, and Googles "Prokofy Neva"...then goes GOOGLEy-eyed at the number of hits....
[18:48]  Helena Whittlesea: what qualifies as a hate group
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: so he's ejected Imnotgoing Sideways for refusing to leave the griefing group Woodbury University
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: so IMG is whining and ranting on his blog endlessly about how he isn't a griefer, but then he can't explain why he can't leave a group documented with hundreds of griefers over the years
[18:48]  Prokofy Neva: so he says "because it wouldn't matter"
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: that's often what Lindens say too when I discuss this with them
[18:49]  courageous Chrome: He also resigned himself a couple of hours ago as i'm sure you know
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: they say "but they'd only make another group"
[18:49]  Prokofy Neva: to which I say, "Yes, but like gang insignia and all conspiracies, when it's another group, it's not quite the same; what they crave to do is to seek legitimacy and force liberals to turn their values inside out for them"
[18:50]  brinda Allen: well sometimes its not a qwestion of right and wrong as far as business is concerned... its often the perception of right and wrong
[18:50]  Helena Whittlesea: what is this, kovino
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: Kovino is one of the w-hat/btards in Woodbury and Rodney Linden fanclub coming and harassing me
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: I had this scene unfold
[18:50]  brinda Allen: Im not gonna open mine JIC ive read the original note
[18:50]  Helena Whittlesea: handing out notecards?
[18:50]  Prokofy Neva: I brought Blue Linden on a tour of Ravenglass
[18:51]  Clubside Granville: Need to find teh blog for a few laughs...lol
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: Lindens often don't grasp what goe son in this big world
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: and I showed him the big grief builds
[18:51]  brinda Allen: seldom here
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: he hadn't heard of the giant Refrigerator of Ravenglass, imagine
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: so while we were discussing, oh, art and Stalinism (they have all kinds of Stalin regalia there)
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: they all show up
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: with Pixeleen in tow too of course
[18:51]  brinda Allen: never reaqds the forums or blogs?
[18:51]  Prokofy Neva: and they proceed to harass me in front of Blue, with a sense of impunity
[18:52]  Prokofy Neva: Yeehaw Ragu even starts ramming and pushing me deliberately, as if to say "even the Lindens cannot stop me, nyah nyah"
[18:52]  Anjelie Daehlie senses the dimes drop finally, and listens intently
[18:52]  Prokofy Neva: so I think -- I hope -- Blue got it a bit
[18:52]  Anjelie Daehlie: I can hear - who is speaking?
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: what they always do here is once banned, go on the Linden water as a "safe area"
[18:53]  Helena Whittlesea: did blue say anything to you about it prok?
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: well he just observed it all
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: he then said he wuold AR Yeehaw -- I was busy trying to ban them from my parcels, the bans strangely drop out
[18:53]  Clubside Granville: Got Woodbury dude chatting through voice...lol
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: then today I again had another posse
[18:53]  Anjelie Daehlie: /em notes the gender reference
[18:53]  Prokofy Neva: gender reference?
[18:53]  Helena Whittlesea: ha!
[18:53]  Anjelie Daehlie: just curious ...
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: oh I never put on voice
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: anyway so I have probbly filed like 50 ARs
[18:54]  Helena Whittlesea: you're speaking now!
[18:54]  Anjelie Daehlie nots that all are refering to Prokofy as female, and the Prokofy in front of her appears male...not that it really matters
[18:54]  Prokofy Neva: oh well, what can oyu do
[18:55]  Prokofy Neva: I don't know -- let's see if I could shut off voice
[18:55]  Prokofy Neva: chrome sorry, I'm trying to block them
[18:55]  courageous Chrome: np
[18:55]  courageous Chrome: no pain
[18:55]  courageous Chrome: lol
[18:55]  Prokofy Neva: who is speaking?
[18:55]  Prokofy Neva: oh it's a loop
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: who are you talking to?
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: well I certainly *can* judge people who have been griefing for years on end, geez lol
[18:56]  Prokofy Neva: do any of you understand criminal law? do you grasp the notion of conspiracy? of intent to commit crime?
[18:56]  Rocket Sellers: Jono Matova and Kovino are talking to bladyblue on voice
[18:57]  brinda Allen: for reason or no reason
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: oh well the thing is not everyone can participate, and I don't think you should legitimize two chicken killers who come and deliberately harass
[18:57]  brinda Allen: amen!
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: you do not "reason" with people like that
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: they are all word-salading and Haskelling
[18:57]  Jim Korpov: yes it was
[18:57]  Prokofy Neva: it's just a racket
[18:58]  Clubside Granville: I guess the NCI proclomation is having an effects...
[18:58]  Jim Korpov: Look, anyone can invite people to the group.
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: today Kovino came and rented from me and Tizzy Teardrop, who is the administrator of Woodbury, and who claims his group does not tolerate griefing, showed up too, and a gaggle of them flew around bothering me and my tenants as I banned them one by one from each parcel
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: which is what you have to do
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: this isn't "guilt by association" -- it's removing people who commit TOS offenses, harassing, spammnig, crashing sims, etc.
[18:58]  Prokofy Neva: it's all well documented
[18:58]  courageous Chrome: you need any help let me know
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: I mean, after the 101st case, do you think it's safe to say, hey, this group is a griefing group! hello!
[18:59]  Tonis Galicia: What does that name even mean?
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: the Lindens have a rule now which I actually don't think they should have because they will only interpret it overbroadly and unjustly
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: and that is "individual or group defamation"
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: so if I come in Rodney Linden's group and say, "Hey, Rodney Linden! How come you have 12 chicken killers in your group?! He ejects me for "defamation" or "harassing support staff"
[18:59]  Prokofy Neva: instantly
[19:00]  Tonis Galicia: What are chicken killers?
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: but if those chickenkillers make a group BAN PROK1 and come and spew obscene particles and selfreplicator prims, gosh, that can stand, that isn't "group defamation" or "individual defamatoin"
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: on the forums, you may have noticed they will remove or block threats attacking one person or making a poll on one person
[19:00]  Prokofy Neva: except...when they don't
[19:00]  Tonis Galicia: What are "chicken killers"?
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: people who come on your land and deliberately push your artificial intelligence chickens off world to kill them, and they can't be replaced then
[19:01]  brinda Allen: suggest we all just turn off voice and see what happens
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: er rather revived
[19:01]  Helena Whittlesea: these poor kiods
[19:01]  Helena Whittlesea: : )
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: Im' turning off voice for this parcel
[19:01]  Clubside Granville: The chicken products are unique I believe, Tonis, so some script actions can push those physical objects off the map and they won't return to inventory so they die. Is that the short of it?"
[19:01]  Anjelie Daehlie chuckles
[19:01]  Rocket Sellers: oh boy
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: because I don't wish to have a voice meeting
[19:01]  Helena Whittlesea: awwww
[19:01]  bladyblue Bommerang: lol ok sorry
[19:01]  Prokofy Neva: bladyblue has her own shtick to do, do it on your land with them
[19:01]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, that's too bad
[19:01]  Helena Whittlesea: you're just giving them fodder
[19:02]  Tonis Galicia: What is an artificial inteligence chicken?
[19:02]  Prokofy Neva: I don't legitimize them
[19:02]  Helena Whittlesea: i don't know any of these people but i know bs when i hear it
[19:02]  Prokofy Neva: well Carl took a controversial move and I'm glad he did
[19:02]  Helena Whittlesea: a bunch of kids who have a lot to learn: summary judgment
[19:02]  Helena Whittlesea: they'll learn
[19:02]  Clubside Granville: They want to voice chat bladyblue to avoid having what they say posted...lol
[19:02]  Helena Whittlesea: meanwhile, shall we continue discussion?
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: the fact is, he should have more closely examine dthe creepy avatar profile of IMG and not accepted him for that reason, eek, it's creepy, and sorry, but creepy has to be removed from settings like that you are NOT obliged to tolerate ageplay edgecasers
[19:03]  Rocket Sellers: hi Athena
[19:03]  Athena Maeterlinck: Hello Rocket.
[19:03]  Anjelie Daehlie is an old lady, and is baffled by the entire conversation
[19:03]  Clubside Granville: The sion chicken is a producr Tonis
[19:03]  Helena Whittlesea: ha! anjelie, it doesn't seem that complicated, honestly : )
[19:03]  Clubside Granville: Do a search, you'll find them everywhere...lol
[19:03]  Prokofy Neva: the sion chickens can get expensive, and the Lindens will not roll back a sim where they've all been killed
[19:03]  Tonis Galicia: Ahhh
[19:03]  Anjelie Daehlie: ah
[19:03]  Ash Marat: this is a vexing ethical issue
[19:04]  Prokofy Neva: I tried to get them Lindens on this 3 times, appealing their decision, but they made an immoral call on this, which has its own ramifications for metaversal ethics, of course, they said, "The scripted items are behaving as the creator intended"
[19:04]  Rocket Sellers: because they were designed to die
[19:04]  Tonis Galicia: Sorry I am ignorant about a lot of this stuff
[19:04]  Anjelie Daehlie: and griefers move in to kill people's property?
[19:04]  Tonis Galicia: I'm fairly new, but I can see how that is very unethical.
[19:04]  Prokofy Neva: note to people 30 years from now: do not let Linden Research inject, insert, or place any nanobots into your bloodstream because they may decide that your Creator intended you to die, so you are exhibiting "expected behaviour" if they kill you
[19:04]  Clubside Granville: That's not a problem Tonis, it's a recent phenomenon that. because of script-induced lag, became known to a lot of people running parcels in addition to the purchasers and resellers of the chickens and their eggs
[19:04]  Helena Whittlesea: and btw prok -- if you expressly did not want people to speak voice, i'd have been happy to respect your wishes in your space -- apologies for that if warranted.
[19:05]  Athena Maeterlinck: I don't let Linden Labs do anything I don't have to.
[19:05]  Anjelie Daehlie: Working as designed *chuckles*
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: I kept saying to these Lindens: pretend that the object list says "seeing eye dogs" or "diabetes warning systems"
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: they should be agnostic to the NATURE of destroyed property
[19:05]  Helena Whittlesea: they should do and be a lot of things
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: see this happens because they have no concept of private property rights whatsoever
[19:05]  Clubside Granville: lol
[19:05]  Helena Whittlesea: they aren't. the reasons are not mysterious.
[19:05]  Prokofy Neva: ever piece of property in SL is a scripted/coded item that they view as *theirs*
[19:05]  Tonis Galicia: So we are not allowed to use voice here?
[19:06]  Prokofy Neva: I don't want to have a voice meeting
[19:06]  Helena Whittlesea: it's prok's land tonis, if that's what prok wishes, i'm ok with it
[19:06]  Tonis Galicia: I get it
[19:06]  Athena Maeterlinck: Apparently not. Its a better choice for a meeting like this anyway.
[19:06]  Prokofy Neva: I'm happy to speak in voice when everybody has it on and working but we don't usually have it, it's a chore, and doesn't work for some people
[19:06]  brinda Allen: isnt that the thing about we give them certain 'rights" over our creations?
[19:06]  Athena Maeterlinck: Voice tends to cause problems when people overlap all the time.
[19:06]  Anjelie Daehlie: the chickens produce lag is why people wish to see them killed?
[19:06]  Tonis Galicia: Prevents people from stepping on one another
[19:06]  Prokofy Neva: we also want to make a transcript because I publish the transcripts
[19:06]  Athena Maeterlinck: Well if we kill for causing lag then we should be killing avs right and left.
[19:06]  Tonis Galicia: So why would one purchase one of these chickens?
[19:06]  Prokofy Neva: well the lag is indeed a factor but that's not the issue of why they killed them, they killed them becaues they *can* as a form omf abuse
[19:06]  Rocket Sellers: research?
[19:07]  Athena Maeterlinck: Why did the chicken cross the road?
[19:07]  Prokofy Neva: like Discrete Dreamscape wishes to show that he as a hacker and coder will take over anything he wishes and kill anything he wishes and fuck you if you get in his way
[19:07]  Prokofy Neva: it's that thuggish opensource criminality at work
[19:07]  Clubside Granville: No, two separate issue Anjelie... people kill them because it's a griefer action... the lag was an issue that had people banning the chickens themselves from parcels until the scripts were re-written
[19:07]  Prokofy Neva: the new v. 12 is less laggy, I've been testing them
[19:07]  Avatar ejected.
[19:07]  Tonis Galicia: If it is for research, isn't it possible to put them on property that people can be kept out of?
[19:07]  Clubside Granville: That was fast for Intblubber! lol
[19:07]  brinda Allen: hahahaah
[19:07]  Prokofy Neva: IntLibber is a frequent flyer griefer too, he's main is banned or suspended, he's here on an alt I didn't manage to ban, he's threatening me with "libel" for um defaming Woodbury ROFL
[19:08]  Clubside Granville: It's funny how supposedly educated people (enough to get into college) don't understand what libel is...
[19:09]  Tonis Galicia: I think most people do not understand libel
[19:09]  Tonis Galicia: They think anything they don't like is libel
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: well libel is something that has to meet three tests in a U.S. court
[19:09]  Clubside Granville: It's a "scary" word some think they can throw around but its definition is pretty straight forward...
[19:09]  Helena Whittlesea: it's not scary if you understand it
[19:09]  Helena Whittlesea: funny how that works
[19:09]  Prokofy Neva: well I've yet to see a libel case stick in SL, they are threatened constantly
[19:10]  Clubside Granville: Has Woodbury also been put on Ban-Link? Is Travis still running that?
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: no of course not
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: he wouldn't do that
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: he thinks they are innocent until proven guilty, every one of them, lol
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: if they make 100 alts that rape people, he doens't care, it's still a case by case basis
[19:10]  Prokofy Neva: I think it's helpful to have witnesses
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: so I am going to TP friends in more
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: you can see how they are when they keep landing and hanging around an area like this, even when banned
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: most of my land is mainland, and that means it has Governor Linden safe areas like this where they hang and taunt
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: so it's annoying
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: by and large I ignore them
[19:11]  Prokofy Neva: in fact, I didn't publicize their grief builds for months on end, I figured they'd get tired of paying the tier
[19:12]  Clubside Granville: Oh, I forgot, it was meant for individuals instead of groups...sorry... Well, are the "mafias" that the Herald also covers that are at "war" with PN, etc. still an issue... do those groups also go on these chicken killing or other griefer sprees?
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: but when they escalated significantly with the chalking episode in RL, that was incitement to grief worse, and I had to begin to document it
[19:12]  Helena Whittlesea: what's the chalking episode, if you can say, prok?
[19:12]  Helena Whittlesea: (i don't know all these details, sorry if that is presumed...)
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: well the chicken killers now include Woodbury University, Woodbury Conspiracy, w-hat, b-tards, 4chan, SLchan, all the variant therefore and the Emerald viewer thugs
[19:12]  Clubside Granville: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/08/ban-woodbury.html?cid=6a00d83451cfe069e20120a505630d970b
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: and they've made some specific chicken killing groups
[19:12]  Prokofy Neva: and the fact is, this isn't just about me
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: they've attacked the chicken farms too but those people won't talk as they feel it's bad for business
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: they think if they don't talk, if they are silent about violence, it will go away
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: they feed the conspiracy further
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: they prevent human soldiarity
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: *solidarity
[19:13]  brinda Allen: anarchy is never about one of us!
[19:13]  Prokofy Neva: so eeveryone thinks, oh, that's not me, it won' happen to me, and then it does
[19:14]  Clubside Granville: I hope these viewer exploits finally shut down the "great experiment" that is the open viewer... let them connect to a test grid as has been suggested, just keep third=party viewers off the main... though I know all the bot programmers and such will bitch
[19:14]  Prokofy Neva: The thing is, if you decide that a group has reached the tipping point of being objectionable, and ban it, you haven't committed some offense, it's your right on your land to ban whom you wish
[19:14]  Ash Marat: of course. indeed without cause or provocation.
[19:15]  Helena Whittlesea: gosh, at least they can spell "ban". clearly they're getting something for their "education" dollars. har.
[19:15]  Prokofy Neva: the larger issue is whether the Lindens can take action like RL police do who ban gangs as such, and RL high schools, who ban gang insignia as such, and RL, which recognizes the legal principle of conspiracy when it does everything from try the SS to the Black Panthers. If you show up with a cop-killer in a terrorist group, you will not be able to say, "I was just here admiring the scenery"
[19:15]  Ravenglass Rentals Belarus Chicken Farm $200: LEASE REFUNDED: leased by Dook Buckenburger located in Belarus (201.406891,189.827927,25.246000) has ended. Refunded L$565.
[19:15]  Prokofy Neva: the Lindens have taken action sometimes to remove groups but usually it's if they are obscene
[19:17]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, about the grafitti -- i have to say i'm not prepared to blame anyone if there aren't witnesses or security cameras or other actual evidence of who did it. it's too obvious that someone could've done it who knows how to make it look like the work of others. the whole thing is so mindbogglingly dumb and inane - to think this involves supposed people interested in 'educating' themselves?! har! - but i'd want to be ethically consistent
[19:17]  Anjelie Daehlie reads the Alphaville Herald occasionally...and now wonders if there is a publication with an opposing viewpoint
[19:18]  Prokofy Neva: oh I disagree, I think the Lindens create an enabling environment when they signal to people that it's ok to be douches and deface buildings and harass individuals, it's not about catching some one culprit, but if you have a photo that shows a Linden smirking while he shakes hands with a Woodbury University professor as everyone gets out of the party bus and then they chalk up the building, I think you can say it's wrong
[19:18]  Prokofy Neva: maybe you can't make an arrest, but you can say it's morally unacceptable
[19:18]  Ash Marat: do these conditions implicate any student of woodbury who is a member of the woodbury univ. group?
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: of course they do
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: They announced the following Ash, you aren't keeping up with the story
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: 1. They announced that they were running a party bus with liquor that had permission from Philip Linden to park at Linden Lab
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: 2. They put this on twitter, on signs in RL, all over
[19:19]  Ash Marat: no, i don't know the whole story
[19:19]  Helena Whittlesea: let's see the smirking photo! i need to judge the smirk!
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: 3. They then added to that that they had permission from Philip to chalk the building
[19:19]  Helena Whittlesea: (smirks are in the eye of the beholder. heh)
[19:19]  Helena Whittlesea: says who, prok, re: permission
[19:19]  Prokofy Neva: 4. Everyone believed that they were entitled by Philip to come chalk the building, and dozens did
[19:20]  Helena Whittlesea: anyone other than philip himself? eh. grain of salt.
[19:20]  Prokofy Neva: 5. I contacted Philip he said, no, he knew nothing about it
[19:20]  Helena Whittlesea: you DO keep in mind you're talking about children, right?
[19:20]  Helena Whittlesea: essentially.
[19:20]  Helena Whittlesea: i mean really. come on.
[19:20]  Prokofy Neva: 6. Philip said that anyone could park on this street; it was a public street; he didnt' see why they were asking permission
[19:20]  Prokofy Neva: 7. Anyone familiar with active measures operations would know why they did this: they did this to implicate Philip and make it seem like he sanctioned them
[19:20]  Helena Whittlesea: and it worked -- if you take their word for it!
[19:21]  Helena Whittlesea: i don't get why you get sucked into all this bs, honestly.
[19:21]  Ash Marat: are there any grown-ups at woodbury univ. involved?
[19:21]  Helena Whittlesea: honestly. *honestly*.
[19:21]  Helena Whittlesea: har! my thought exactly, mr. marat.
[19:21]  Helena Whittlesea: how about this: are there any grown-ups at woodbury univ?
[19:21]  Prokofy Neva: Sucked into BS? Because it has to be documented. If it happened in RL and stayed there, who would care? I wouldn't care, not my building
[19:22]  Anjelie Daehlie has RL kids in college, and needs to go to send them txts, so excuses herself and leaves quietly
[19:22]  Prokofy Neva: but iwhen this group, saying they have sanction from Philip, chalk a tag saying BAN PROK! and put out the story everywhere, with photos, the next day that a) Lindens authorized it and b) Lindens also wrote it it signals a new escalation of griefing against me and my properties
[19:22]  Helena Whittlesea: gosh anjelie, i hope your college kids are a little...uh.... brighter than .... some....
[19:22]  Prokofy Neva: it's allowing some Lindens and griefers to go feral on a customer, as one person commenting on my blog aptly put it
[19:22]  Prokofy Neva: go read my blog and see the pictures, don't make me explain it 10 times
[19:23]  Helena Whittlesea: prok --- that's my question: why do you repeat that 'they say they were sanctioned by philip'? as though that means anything
[19:23]  Prokofy Neva: if you don't grasp the ramification of it, it's just that you lack the depth of documentation and details that I have had four years to compile, as these people harass me incessantly, but I refuse to be hounded off my land by then, I don't allow them to do it, you document it, you report it, you expose it, uyou live your life
[19:23]  Helena Whittlesea: who cares what they say? they're children starved for attention. have pity.
[19:23]  Prokofy Neva: um, Intlibber is a 41 year old male
[19:23]  Prokofy Neva: Prof. Edward Clift is in his 30s
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: these are not children
[19:24]  Helena Whittlesea: i mean, sure, scorn too, they're also apparently not too bright and should be expending their efforts in ways that are more useful to themselves... but really.
[19:24]  Helena Whittlesea: no? what are they?
[19:24]  Rocket Sellers: they're obviously not terminal adult stage...
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/08/further-on-woodbury-university-and-linden-lab-chalking.html
[19:24]  Helena Whittlesea: who's edward clift?
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: it diminishes the underlying moral problem when people keep saying "it's only kids" or "kids will be kids"
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: they aren't kids, and they destroy real property
[19:24]  Helena Whittlesea: no no no, you grossly misunderstand
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: Edward Clift is the Woodbury University professor who is supposed to be supervising these students
[19:24]  Prokofy Neva: but he's in on it
[19:25]  Helena Whittlesea: i am NOT saying it's "ONLY" kids or that kids will be kids
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: as you can see from his interviews in the Herald
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: and the fact that he deliberately bought land next to me to build grief builds
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: look at his SL profile MC Fizgig and see he uses the Patriotic Nigra insignia
[19:25]  Helena Whittlesea: ok. cut to the chase. what's his beef with you.
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: His beef is that I went, on my other account, Random Unsung, in 2007, and reported on Woobury University for the Herald
[19:25]  Helena Whittlesea: i don't care about patriotic nigra. racial epithets don't incite me like they're apparently "supposed" to. big deal. yawn.
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: after the Herald got dozens of complaints aobut this group
[19:25]  Prokofy Neva: I had never heard of them before
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: I had never heard of b/tards, 4/chan, anime, mooty kips and all the other bullshit that makes up their culture
[19:26]  Helena Whittlesea: prok --- what is your summarized take on it, i'd like to know. what do these people have against you? i mean really, why don't they spend their time doing something to make something --ANYTHING -- better?
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: so I went and saw a lot of people in Hitler and hello kitty and other wacky regalia just behaving stupidly and it was clear they weren't engaged in any real educational activity
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: it wasn't even art
[19:26]  Helena Whittlesea: prok: please see above.
[19:26]  Prokofy Neva: helena if you don't mind, I can give you the short courst
[19:26]  Helena Whittlesea: thanks that would be great
[19:27]  Helena Whittlesea: because no, frankly i don't have time or interest in slogging through years' worth of backstory and dumb h.s. melodrama
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: In 2005, a group called W-hat, which is an Internet hacking group known for somethingawful.com forums which are tasteless, crude, vulgar, obscene, sometimes unlawful with child porn, etc
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: related also to 4chan.com which is an image board which is also filled with creepy stuff like that posing as art
[19:27]  Helena Whittlesea: (yes yes i know sa.com. see above re: yawn.)
[19:27]  Prokofy Neva: go to slchan.com to get a faceful of it -- in two minutes you'll grasp it
[19:27]  Helena Whittlesea: right, i know the type.
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: ok so I, having never heard of these people nor cared what they did, merely said, on a forums, which had hundreds of answers, that I thought that their World Trade Center parody called I'm Falling For You was in poor taste
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: because I had lost a job in the real 9/11 and lost neighbours
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: I said it was wrong, and shouldnt' be blessed as art
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: so they decided to attack
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: they sent people with fake Muslim names in airplanes
[19:28]  Helena Whittlesea: ok stop ---
[19:28]  Prokofy Neva: disrupting events, bashing me, replicating shit etc
[19:28]  Helena Whittlesea: stop please prok
[19:29]  Helena Whittlesea: short version --- is that it, is that the basic inception of a 'war on prok'
[19:29]  Prokofy Neva: Why stop, Helena? You are too liberal, so liberal your brains fall out?
[19:29]  Helena Whittlesea: hah!!
[19:29]  Prokofy Neva: it's ok to say when art is not art, but assault
[19:29]  Helena Whittlesea: oh gosh you don't know me very well ; )
[19:29]  Helena Whittlesea: nah, feel free to continue, but i just want to know "the" basis
[19:29]  Prokofy Neva: when someone attacks you in an airplane, and takes that building and crashes it over your avatar head during an event, guess what, it is no longer art
[19:29]  Helena Whittlesea: so i understand
[19:30]  Helena Whittlesea: what the supposed trigger was that set these people on some apparent neverending mission
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: well you are constantly giving them the benefit of the doubt in this sort of whiney superior way, and I find it offensive
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: get a clue Helena
[19:30]  Helena Whittlesea: ah, prok, you should sto pand think
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: these people are sinister deadly fucks who want to prevent Second Life from being used for anything but nihilist anti-culture
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: no, YOU stop and think
[19:30]  Helena Whittlesea: i want to know who 'these people are'
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: yuo've been agitating and poking at me all evening with this shit, go read it and see what's up, for God's sake
[19:30]  Cor Ember: Was it the Herald articles that brought you to their attention?
[19:30]  Prokofy Neva: these people have cost me HUNDREDS OF REAL DOLLARS in lots tenants, property, time over the years
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: I calmly and collectedly AR them, ignore them, log off, give my tenants refunds etc
[19:31]  Helena Whittlesea: if someone wrote graffiti on a building and made it look like you did it idoubt you'd think it was fair for people to assume you DID do it? i think ethical consistency is important, i'd have thought you did too
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: like I did *just now* to a tenant leaving
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: so please -- spare me your politically correct homilies
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: they are mislplaced
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: you ahven't lived the harassment of them; I have
[19:31]  Prokofy Neva: the Lindens don't address the problem at its root which is why it persists
[19:31]  Helena Whittlesea: prok -- you don't know me, you really shouldn't make assumptions. really. i promise you.
[19:32]  Helena Whittlesea: lindens --- who expects more from them at this point? honestly? you? do you? really?
[19:32]  Helena Whittlesea: you seem smarter than that
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: but what you DO need to know is that in 2006, the Lindens DID ban 50 of them at once, and closed one group, so when it gets bad enough FOR THEM they will act
[19:32]  Helena Whittlesea: i'm being as frank as i can
[19:32]  Rocket Sellers: expecting the LIndens to fix everything is like expecting god to answer all your virtuous prayers
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: Um, no one can know you if you refuse so coquettishly each time not to give a RL name, even as you imply you are famous and important
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: so -- bullshit
[19:32]  Helena Whittlesea: why did they reopen the group?
[19:32]  Helena Whittlesea: what?!
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: I don't need to know you to judge that your whining and pestery comments to me tonight are off course
[19:32]  Prokofy Neva: you aren't grasping the higher issues here
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: I don't wait for Lindens to fix rocket
[19:33]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, prok. slow down.
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: I use all kinds of means to mitigate; I move on
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: I don't publizie it even
[19:33]  Helena Whittlesea: sloooow down
[19:33]  Helena Whittlesea: or not. i mean really, what do i care?
[19:33]  Helena Whittlesea: sort of baffling, but. shrug.
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: Look at my blog and count the articles I've done -- there's this skewed belief that I "filled" the Herald with articles on these people -- there are a handful. The comments they themselves put everywhere are what gives the impression
[19:33]  Prokofy Neva: You don't have to care
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: you aren't required to care'
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: you *can* grasp the higher issues tho
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: you don't create a climate of impunity
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: try to hear this: it's not just "about me"
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: there are hundreds of people they grief
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: lots of communities
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: but those communities ARE SILENT
[19:34]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, why do you turn on people if they insist on ethical consistency
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: that's all
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: that's why you have this sense it's "about me"
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: Um, where is there any ethical inconsistency, Helen?
[19:34]  Prokofy Neva: what is your point?
[19:35]  Helena Whittlesea: see above -- about the graffiti thing. that's all i commented on.
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: You seem to believe *I* am doing something wrong here. Hello?! What the fuck?
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: again, you aren't grasping
[19:35]  Helena Whittlesea: what if someone made graffiti that appeared to be created by prokofy neva? should we assume it was created by you?
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: what it means *to create a climate of impunity*
[19:35]  Ash Marat: i never heard any such thing, any indictment of you, prok
[19:35]  Helena Whittlesea: see above
[19:35]  Helena Whittlesea: please.
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: it's about a gang of thugs seeing that a gtag has been ALLOWED and seeing that as a dog whistle to harass me MORE
[19:35]  Helena Whittlesea: see above. please.
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: the Lindens sure take it seriously they are investigating it
[19:35]  Jordyn Jinx: Prokofy I understand your concern, but can't these children just return on alts? I think the real adult solution here would to ignore them and let them become bored of pestering you rather than feeding them.
[19:35]  Helena Whittlesea: i commented on one specific things.
[19:35]  Prokofy Neva: Philip sure took it seriously; he said it was terrible -- read his letter to me
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: No, that's bullshit
[19:36]  Helena Whittlesea: i don't care about philip. i'm asking about you.
[19:36]  Helena Whittlesea: one. the graffiti that you cited.
[19:36]  Helena Whittlesea: see above. please.
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: this idea that "they'll just return on alts and just make new groups" is what enables them and feeds them
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: the new group will have less people; the new alt will have less age and reputation; no, it's not the same
[19:36]  Stegano Kaczor: I agree, If they keep attacking you just ignore them. They'll get bored and leave you alone.
[19:36]  Prokofy Neva: so attacking the groups by freezing them is the answer
[19:36]  Helena Whittlesea: no response to the above?
[19:36]  Jordyn Jinx: What would be your ideal solution? If you could have a wishlist that Philip would grant right now, what would it be?
[19:36]  Rocket Sellers: cut paste Helena
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: just like high schools ban gang insignia; just like a judge determines there are criminal conspiracy groups, and acts accordingly
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: it's not the liberal violation you imagine, that's your problem
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: you feel some sacred liberal precept is being violated here
[19:37]  Helena Whittlesea: are you talking to me, prok?
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: but you don't realize THAT is what they WANT you to think to keep IMPUNITY
[19:37]  Ash Marat: ha. you're off the mark, prok
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: and you can judge accurately and determine that WHEN crime takes place, which isn't hard to document, you act, you ban the group
[19:37]  Prokofy Neva: if you don't want to be accused of crime, don't join a criminal conspiracy
[19:38]  Helena Whittlesea: ok, ban all the groups you want. i simply would like to know what you think about my bleeping grafitti question?!
[19:38]  Helena Whittlesea: yeesh.
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: No, Ash, you're just farther to the left than me, and not willing to look at the consequences of empty-headed liberalism
[19:38]  Helena Whittlesea: great! swell! i agree about don't join a criminal conspiracy! see above. please.
[19:38]  Helena Whittlesea: oh lord.
[19:38]  Jordyn Jinx: So say woodbury went away tomorrow, the group dissolved and their land reclaimed. How does this stop hundreds of new alts from being created?
[19:38]  Ash Marat: ha! that's very presumptuous! =)
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: Helean again: your questoin isn't relevant
[19:38]  Helena Whittlesea: is it ever
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: because that is NOT the context
[19:38]  Prokofy Neva: you're making up an irrelevant hypothetical
[19:38]  Helena Whittlesea: ok. so answer it anyway? pretty please?
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: the people who did this chalking are bragging happily that they did it
[19:39]  Helena Whittlesea: YOU brought up the graffiti, prok. i didn't know about it until YOU did.
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: they are saying Lindens did it as well
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: they are photographing each other
[19:39]  Helena Whittlesea: apparently YOU thought it was relevant.
[19:39]  Helena Whittlesea: at least, until now.
[19:39]  Helena Whittlesea: come on. a little intellectual honesty.
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: No, Helena, go back and read what I just pasted as a list of issues framing this event
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: they deliberately, knowingly portrayed it as sanctioned by the Lindens
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: THAt is the context
[19:39]  Helena Whittlesea: i'm asking. you seem smart. what is the freaking problem? HONESTLY?
[19:39]  Prokofy Neva: You're the one being intellectually dishonest here by refusing to grasp the implications of deliberate knowing LYING about the Lindens
[19:40]  Helena Whittlesea: don't cite it if it's not relevant, for future reference. that would be my humble suggestion.
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: which I discovered AFTER by geting Philip's comment
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: Helena, WHAT THE FUCK
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: stop being such an ASS
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: go back and read the fucking context
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: honestly, you are being deliberately obnoxious
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: why?
[19:40]  Helena Whittlesea: haven't missed a line, prok.
[19:40]  Prokofy Neva: you can see that these are people who cause objective harm? What on earth is your problem?!
[19:40]  Helena Whittlesea: i disagree. respectfully. well, sort of. at this point.
[19:40]  Helena Whittlesea: i'm capable of ignoring them. are you?
[19:41]  Jordyn Jinx: I am a developer, and as a dev we find the root of a problem and a solution. You are claiming that A. You are losing money because your tenants are upset. and that the solution would be to ban groups such as Woodbury?
[19:41]  Prokofy Neva: What factor makes you wish to give the benefit of the doubt to Tizzy Teardrop, who wrote on Twitter, "Philip has given the green light to park the party bus in front of the Lab"
[19:41]  Rocket Sellers: sense of humor?
[19:41]  Prokofy Neva: Jordyn, can you realize that the Lindens ALREADY in 2007 seized Woodbury Island?
[19:41]  courageous Chrome: monetary loss is hard to just ignore
[19:41]  Jordyn Jinx: Did that fix anything?
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: it' snot like this company doesn't have discretionary power to act even while all you liberals stand around with your thumbs in your mouth pondering it
[19:42]  Ash Marat: i think the problem is indeed one of ethical consistency, but it's not here, it's at LL
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: they acted becaues their server records showed crashing, obscenity etc
[19:42]  Helena Whittlesea: prok -- i don't care about twitter. i'm fine with dropping my question. since. well.
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: they seized their island
[19:42]  Rocket Sellers resents being called a liberal
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: they expelled Tizzers Foxchase permanently
[19:42]  Helena Whittlesea: ha! rocket! hear hear
[19:42]  Prokofy Neva: your question is some silly hypothetical that isn't listening to the facts on the ground here
[19:42]  Helena Whittlesea: oh prok, please. YOU brought it up.
[19:43]  Jordyn Jinx: I think we have a different definition of facts, but that's okay. Please continue.
[19:43]  Helena Whittlesea: i'm listening very closely. very.
[19:43]  Prokofy Neva: they lied about being sanctoined by Philip because they wanted to implicate the Lindens -- they want to draw the Lindens into their criminality
[19:43]  Prokofy Neva: and they succeed in doing that when they get someone like Rodney Linden to snicker along with them
[19:43]  Helena Whittlesea: when and where did rodney linden snicker? [PN: by coming to Ross on Tizzy Teardrop's TP and "exploring" and being insolent to me and pushing his bear on me (!) when I asked him if he egged on griefers -- read the past post about this, please, and stop playing D.A.]
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: The Lindens should ban the accounts for griefing, and seize their island becaues this is the second chance they've had, and they've deliberately violated the TOS
[19:44]  Helena Whittlesea: everybody doesn't read every blog so it's a mistake to assume 'everyone' knows all this stuff, you do get that prok? [PN: if you keep pestering for a back story and keep demanding answers to hypotheticals, you get them. And you're told to go read the context and stop being a bitch.]
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: why they were allowed to come back on alts with this caper with Intlibber, the land baron, I'll never know, that too should be investigated
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: Jordyn, the facts are pretty clear, not sure of what your point is
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: Philip seems to grasp better than you do why he instantly had to disavow this
[19:44]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, new question --- how many ppl other than you are on record with complaining 'officially' about specific, named folks (presumed alts or otherwise)
[19:44]  Prokofy Neva: let me paste what he said:
[19:44]  Ash Marat: this all comes back to looking for judicial consistency at LL. so that facts don't really matter.
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: [to Philip] "There's a claim everywhere now in the blogosphere that you authorized the Woodbury University "Party Bus" to pull up and park at the Linden Lab parking lot and also that you gave the go ahead for the gang there to put graffiti all over the walls of the LL building entrance in RL.

Is that true?

Also, there's a claim that Lindens participating in this authorized prank put up the tag BAN PROK with your consent.

Is that true?"
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: that's my email to him
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: now his reply:
[19:45]  Almitra Vella blushes profusely, Hey, Ash, nice to meet you . . .
[19:45]  Prokofy Neva: Hi Prok! I just got back last night from a camping vacation (I left immediately after my talk at SLCC saturday morning), so I haven't heard or seen anything about this. I remember being asked by someone whether it would be OK to come by to visit the office with a bus, and I said it sounded fine but that going into the LL office wouldn't work because we couldn't give tours, etc. Not really sure why anyone would even bother to ask - it's a public street. I certainly didn't approve graphitti (or hear any mention of it). From this picture it looks like chalk - at least I certainly hope so! It would never be OK for a Linden to write something like 'Ban Prok', or for that matter anything desparaging about a resident. I wasn't there so have no idea whether any Lindens were there at the time.

I'm sorry that someone wrote that - not nice at all I agree."
[19:45]  Ash Marat: did you sit on me or something? i'm not looking
[19:46]  Jordyn Jinx: Prokofy, from the pictures that I saw on your blog. There were Lindens shaking hands and greeting the woodbury university people in an amiable manner. If they did not want them there, would they have not called the police? [PN: Duh? And now, Brain Surgeon, could you put together the facts that a) Lindens greeted Woodburies amiably but b) Philip said he didn't invite them to pull up the bus and graffiti the building! Honestly, people are so stupid.]
[19:46]  Almitra Vella glaces about, trying to look innocent
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: Ash, you have to behave as if you can expect judicial fairness from an executive authority even though they aren't legitimize and do not display it; it's often the only way to induce justice into being
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: you try first in our world rather than resorting to RL
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: that's all
[19:46]  Helena Whittlesea: that is startlingly naive, prok
[19:46]  Avatar ejected.
[19:46]  Helena Whittlesea: i must say. surprisingly so.
[19:46]  Helena Whittlesea: nice deflection by good old philip, too. heh
[19:46]  Helena Whittlesea: bless his heart
[19:46]  Prokofy Neva: yes well, it's as good as it gets
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: but he's right, look at the pictures
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: it's an open stret, not a parking lot
[19:47]  Helena Whittlesea: to wit: not very good. har!
[19:47]  Helena Whittlesea: to further wit: par for the LL course
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: they drew him into it so that they could make it appear as if he was involved, it's a classic KGB -style tactic
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: make someone perform some little favour that is something that isn't even clandestine, to make them feel involved with you, and implicate them
[19:47]  Helena Whittlesea: yeah yeah so why are you here? why indeed -- give me an alternative and i am so there....!
[19:47]  Ash Marat: see also: CIA
[19:47]  Helena Whittlesea: ha! indeed, mr. marat ; )
[19:47]  Prokofy Neva: the KGB uses far more and with far deadlier results
[19:48]  Helena Whittlesea: once upon a time, yes
[19:48]  Jordyn Jinx: I did a little bit of research into who attended this event, and it was more than just a group of students.
[19:48]  Jordyn Jinx: http://img83.imageshack.us/i/img1301m.jpg/ [PN: Picture of Robert Bloomfield, drink in hand, above BAN PROK tag. This merely establishes that he was there when it was there, doesn't establish that he did this, but it could make sense. I had already banned him from this blog recently for having Intlibber/Woodbury one of the spillover venues for Metanomics, which I thought was immoral.]
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: the CIA you can fix by media and justice as we are doing now about CIA torture; the KGB you can't fix, which is why I mention it
[19:48]  Jordyn Jinx: I'm sure you might recognize this individual.
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: Jordyn, nobody said that
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: except those here ranting on about "kids"
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: thees are middle aged men
[19:48]  Helena Whittlesea: oh prok. please.
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: SLCC is an event with 1,000 people at it
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: this is a sub-event of SLCC
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: and the other thing Woodbury did
[19:48]  Helena Whittlesea: people in college are kids, in my estimation. that's to whom i referred. are you clear on that yet? if not, i'll be happy to elucidate.
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: was draw in lots of public figures on to this bus, like Crap, Eshi, etc
[19:48]  Rocket Sellers: i think SLCC had about 250 this year
[19:48]  Prokofy Neva: so that they could show THEM chalking too
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: and make it seem like tout le monde
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: 1,000 is what they had in Chicago
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: they get numbers like that
[19:49]  Helena Whittlesea: numbers mean everything and nothing
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: not sure what they had this year
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: not important
[19:49]  Ash Marat: draw in? those people are supposed to be the smart ones.
[19:49]  Helena Whittlesea: heh
[19:49]  Helena Whittlesea: ; )
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: the point is this event was one attending by at least as many people who can fit on a bus: let's say 63 peole
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: or 52
[19:49]  Prokofy Neva: or whatever
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: so they got people on the bus who participated in it because they believed it was sanctioned
[19:50]  Jordyn Jinx: From what I understand the bus made about 10 trips back and fourth.
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: they arrived after hours, got Lindens inside to come out and shake their hands
[19:50]  Helena Whittlesea: say, stylus -- would you mind removing yourself from my lap? thanks ever so!
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: now, some Lindens looking at this say "They don't look very welcoming"
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: I say "they're smirking"
[19:50]  Helena Whittlesea: not that i don't appreciate a good stylus in its proper place
[19:50]  Prokofy Neva: someone else says "the Woodburies presented them with a fait accompli" etc
[19:50]  Helena Whittlesea: just that my lap ain't it ; )
[19:50]  Helena Whittlesea: thank you! : )
[19:50]  Stylus Nightfire: sorry didnt rez you then
[19:51]  Jordyn Jinx: The attendance at SLCC this year was 589.
[19:51]  Helena Whittlesea: i understand. have done it myself. np stylus
[19:51]  Stylus Nightfire: was wondering my it felt confortable
[19:51]  Prokofy Neva: Interoperability -- that usually is a marker for content theft and crime
[19:51]  Helena Whittlesea: hah! : )
[19:51]  Stylus Nightfire: hehehe
[19:51]  Stegano Kaczor: uh
[19:52]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, do you continue to lose revenue even now as a result of woodbury et al. activities, is that part an ongoing thing
[19:52]  Prokofy Neva: on that sim I do, when they put in the grief builds, I had 3 tenants in large lots all move out at once because they began griefing in addition to wrecking the view, they flew around with giant penises, etc
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: so I just made lemonade out of lemons, I converted it to another newbie area with $150 cabins
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: I abuse report them, they subside, the Lindens remove the alts from the People list, they go away, months pass, etc
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: now they were all activated again by the BAN PROK
[19:53]  Helena Whittlesea: ok, and that ongoing griefing is all traceable back to your criticism of the wtc thing?
[19:53]  Jordyn Jinx: I have just been informed that Carl Metropolitan has stepped down from his leadership position in NCI over the fact that 1/2 the Board if Directors left over his decision to ban Woodbury members from joining NCI.
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: but more than that, by other things such as my criticism of the opensource movement on the JIRa
[19:53]  Prokofy Neva: THAT is what really bothers them, and that's why thugs like Discrete Dreamscape is also targeting me
[19:54]  Rocket Sellers: seriously Jordyn?
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: they hate criticism of their criminality with content theft, hacking etc
[19:54]  Jordyn Jinx: Yes
[19:54]  Helena Whittlesea: or i guess, subsequently, your complaints about griefing?
[19:54]  brinda Allen: thats too bad..i feel sorry for carl an ungtenable position
[19:54]  Cor Ember: Yes, Carl resigned.
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: well the NIC board members are wrong and Carl is right
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: they shouldn't have an ageplaying grief group member in NCI, full stop
[19:54]  Helena Whittlesea: well gee, who in their right mind doesn't have some basis for at least a partial criticism of the spuriously named 'opensource' movement?!
[19:54]  Prokofy Neva: if they can't eject someone on that basis, they can't keep their good reputation
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: well I have a consistent critique as you know Helena
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: and they hate that and grief me over it contantly
[19:55]  Helena Whittlesea: yes i do know
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: each time I put up a JIRA or a blog I get deluged with people telling me to be "an hero" and commit suicide, etc
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: Carl saw that this group posted on my blog telling me to commit suicide
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: that put it over the edge for him
[19:55]  Helena Whittlesea: and i've agreed with much of it.
[19:55]  Prokofy Neva: he thought that was going too far and Imnotgoing Sideways should not be in the NCI unless she was willing to quit Woodbury
[19:56]  Prokofy Neva: if you go and read my blog all this week, you'll see the most hair-raising awful anonymous comments and comments from all the people who were here tonight, all of whom are members of Woodbury
[19:56]  Prokofy Neva: and members who have to be *invited into this closed group by administratros*
[19:56]  Kerry Takashi: What this basically is, is industrial warfare...but on a small scale relatively speaking. Nothing will be done until an attack is made on a big company and it really hurts LL's bottom line.
[19:56]  Helena Whittlesea: kerry, you're probably right
[19:57]  brinda Allen: so mvery true Kerry
[19:57]  Helena Whittlesea: all this other stuff is mere backchannel chatter to LL
[19:57]  Helena Whittlesea: (which doesn't make them that different from any other corp, despite their supposed desire to be perceived as 'different'. ah, sweet naivete...)
[19:57]  Prokofy Neva: It's industrial warfare, but not sure from which industry, other than the industry of Leninist nihilism, unless we posit that Pixeleen engages in sabotage so that education and business will pick Croquet and Wonderland and not SL, but I think that's likely stretching it
[19:58]  Kerry Takashi: What they are doing is setting the ground work for opensource. SL must support their stance and they will see to it that it will. Then can hold up SL as a shining example of "free". LL looks willing to fall on the sword for it.
[19:59]  Prokofy Neva: well you have to remember who benefits from opensource
[19:59]  Prokofy Neva: ask the Leninist question, "who profits"
[19:59]  Helena Whittlesea: there's no such thing as a *shining* example of free.
[19:59]  Prokofy Neva: and that is big IT like IBM that gets free R&D from oS
[19:59]  Helena Whittlesea: behind every supposed "shining" example of "free" is someone/s whose pockets are lined. suggest otherwise, and you and i will have an interesting talk.
[19:59]  Kerry Takashi: It won't be free for us, of course. But the movers and shakers, yes.
[20:00]  Kerry Takashi: Small business must be stifled. It's success hurts the opensource movement.
[20:00]  Ash Marat: eh, it's just like the cabals that form among fanboys (and their girl hangers-on, usually) of all kinds of rpgs or anyplace else where übernerds feel slightly empowered
[20:01]  Ash Marat: they try to stage revolts against game companies, other player groups, whatever, all the time
[20:01]  Helena Whittlesea: too true.
[20:02]  Ash Marat: the main difference is that LL keeps its consituency at arms length as it feigns to embrace them
[20:02]  Kerry Takashi: I will find it interesting what steps Blizzard takes to protect the IP of mapmakers for Starcraft. They seem to be willing to allow these developers to sell their wares. They will be a paradigm.
[20:02]  Helena Whittlesea: b i n g o and bingo was his name OH!
[20:02]  Ash Marat: where the better game companies, the ones i know, go deal with those groups directly and either fuck them up or win them over
[20:02]  Helena Whittlesea: it's sort of sickening when you think about it. LL's M.O.
[20:02]  Helena Whittlesea: i mean in a pitiable kind of way. (no sarcasm. honestly.)
[20:03]  Helena Whittlesea: that's right mr. marat
[20:03]  Cube Republic: whens SL's 10aniversary?
[20:03]  Jordyn Jinx: In 2013
[20:04]  Cube Republic: interesting to see what develops, will they trundle along or update and improve, was the system ever planned with longitivity in mind?
[20:05]  Cube Republic: or was it short term financial gain for some silicone overlords
[20:05]  Kerry Takashi: Well that is the question. We may have been in someone's little human exhibit all along. Very Slaughterhouse 5
[20:05]  Cube Republic: yeah
[20:05]  Cube Republic: well we rarely play pac-man, things progress
[20:05]  Ash Marat: i would think it pitiable if i didn't believe it to be 'sinister'. the pitiable part is the underling naifs who think they're doing something cool and important and even upstanding.
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: Heelen is still jamming on me in IMs about somehow feeling this issue is about possibly *falsely* ascribing this crime to Lindens or Woodbury
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: she is still not GETTING IT
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: here's the facts, again
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: 1. Loki Clifton says "The Lindens did this"
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: 2. Tizzy Teardrop says "we had the Lindens' permissions to do this"
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: 3. Philip says "I don't know who did it, I wasn't there"
[20:06]  Cube Republic: SL is like las vegas, you dont go into las vegas and gamble on the slots and then complain youve lost loads of cash lol
[20:06]  Jordyn Jinx: http://img83.imageshack.us/i/img1301m.jpg/ [Picture of Robert Bloomfield, again, only establishing that he was there, not establishing that he did it, unless we're to see this as a 'victory dance' photo which it might well be.]
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: 4. Adric Antfarm points out that in the photo in 9:28 pm when the Lindens greet the party bus, the BAN PROK isn't showing
[20:06]  Jordyn Jinx: Robert Bloomfield did it. [BTW, Jordan Jinx works for Sun Microsystems in Irvine, CA--PN]
[20:06]  Prokofy Neva: 5. At 12:30 am or so it IS sohwing
[20:07]  Ash Marat: right, cube.
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: well it doesn't MATTER who did it
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: that is not the point
[20:07]  Kerry Takashi: Yes. SL is exactly like Vegas and the Chicken Ranch.
[20:07]  Cube Republic: chicken vegas
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: it could be M Linden or it could be anybody, not important
[20:07]  Ash Marat: darth vegas
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: the point is, it happened WHEN the Woodburies said they had permissions and AFTER the Lidnens greeted the Woodburies at the door
[20:07]  Cube Republic: sonic the crap hole
[20:07]  Cube Republic: lol
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: that's the point
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: impunity
[20:07]  Prokofy Neva: creating a climate of negligence and impunity
[20:08]  Prokofy Neva: Helena juts hasn't followed the blog about this for days
[20:09]  Prokofy Neva: are you an NCI board member Jordyn? I bet you'd prefer to have an ageplay edgecaser and grief group member stay in NCI than have Carl stay as leader, just to be politically correct
[20:09]  Prokofy Neva: and that's why...you get what you get
[20:09]  Jordyn Jinx: Carl is a tyrant, Immy is a genuinely good hearted person that obides by the TOS.
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: No, Carl is a good man, Immy is a creep
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: and a member of a destructive group
[20:10]  Cor Ember: And she left NCI before Carl resigned as Exec Director
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: so?
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: it was an issue he had long been battling for weeks
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: and Desmond discovered it too
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: I had to ban IMG from three parcels because he came with griefing groups just as you saw tonighit
[20:10]  Prokofy Neva: and despite that he persitsed
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: Here is the profile of this Imnotgoing sideways, a man dressed as a girl child avatar:
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: "Just listen for the bell and look for the little naked one. I respond to "Immy". =^-^=

See more in my Picks. (^_^)y"
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: So it's flaunting the idea of a naked child, number one
[20:11]  courageous Chrome: ahh gross
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: number two, the web profile says : https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/tags/ageplay
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: to let us know that he is aware of the ageplay rules and is edgecasing them
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: taunting us
[20:11]  courageous Chrome: i can't look
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: number three, are his picks with sayings like this:
[20:11]  Prokofy Neva: "What little things crawl underground? Little creepy things, are what. Odd happenings occur when this thing comes above ground. (^_^)"
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: and this
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: "Because barely legal is still legal and in SL your 18th birthday can be yesterday, everyday. =^-^="
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: "Lolichan's Lolicons, Darkly Cute, Ferguson (55, 238, 94)"
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: Lolita and 4chan mixed together, what a combo
[20:12]  Cor Ember: You know she claims she came alone that first time, right?
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: and this, in a first life spot, showing a girl anime
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: "Some people are best sheltered way from normal society as their makeup, mentality, and psychology are intrinsically harmful.

It's not too hard to believe that I'm simply one of those people."
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: that's bullshit
[20:12]  Prokofy Neva: she came with the group, she merely happened to come after they were banned
[20:12]  Jordyn Jinx: She is 18 and age verified, but that is a WHOLE different argument. Take that one up with Marianne McCann.
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: and EVEN if this is somehow correct there are the OTHER times she came WITH A group
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: several others
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: in Ross
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: where she arrived WITH a group, anhd was banned
[20:13]  Cor Ember: Ah. Wondered about that because I couldn't believe you would eject for no reason.
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: I didn't even particularly notice her, I banned all those who arrived and started particles, spam etc with Woodbury tags
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: she came WITH a group that spammed, particles, put out self replicating things
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: if she didn't do that herself
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: but has the tag
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: so what?
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: they came to DISRUPT a meeting on Iran
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: with INTLIBBER
[20:13]  Cor Ember: Yeah, I agree.
[20:13]  Prokofy Neva: so they are banned, full stop
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: then AGAIN I plan ANOTHER meeting and who do I find again
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: and have to ban AGAIN
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: etc
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: please, don't feed me all this bullshit
[20:14]  Rocket Sellers: um chickens are self replicating?
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: it doens't matter if this person is 18 and age verified
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: that's what they want you to do
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: they want you to accept their pushing pushing and edgecasing to criminalize you too
[20:14]  Cor Ember: Coming along to watch is the same as instigating it.
[20:14]  Kerry Takashi: Again, Age play is another activity that needs to be exposed from outside. LL won't do a thing about it. The last time they moved on it was because they saw it on major news casts. Its awful but if it explodes, it could close the world for everyone.
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: I don't see why anyone would accept into NCI, to work with the public, with newbies, in the public eye, a person who says: Some people are best sheltered way from normal society as their makeup, mentality, and psychology are intrinsically harmful.

It's not too hard to believe that I'm simply one of those people.
[20:14]  Prokofy Neva: on their profile
[20:15]  Prokofy Neva: and who flaunts ageplay like that
[20:15]  Prokofy Neva: it's just not acceptable
[20:15]  Prokofy Neva: and if the libs at NCi swallowed THAT they can then stlil ask: why woodbury, a griefing group that destroy property?
[20:15]  Rocket Sellers: Intlibber asks me to deliver this message: " I have never griefed one of her meetings, ever, she has always banned me to exclude my opinion" [PN: Bullshit. People banned from disrupting a meeting don't keep hanging outside if they are in fact honest; furthemore, Intlibber came to the Iranian meeting with a group that spewed particles and self-replicators to try to crash the sim; that's aiding and abetting, not giving an opinion. BTW, Intlibber never has anything of substance to say, he just blusters].
[20:15]  Prokofy Neva: It's ok to take a moral stance; to pick who you want in a group; to have standards; to say that creepy ageplay edgecasers and griefers are not appropriate; that's what freedom of association is all about
[20:16]  Prokofy Neva: it's OK to exercise freedom of association and not require that political correctness trump it
[20:16]  Kerry Takashi: Woodbury needs NCI just as NCI needs Woodbury. NCI acts as laundering and NCI, I guess, feels they won't be griefed.
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: Kerry, that's what this is about
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: it's about Woodbury laundering itself
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: PRECISELY
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: trying to get in good with a reputable group and destroy it
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: which they have done
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: they ahve succeeded in creating a scandal, splitting a good group, and forcing out a good man
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: THAT is their handiwork
[20:18]  Prokofy Neva: THAT is what they are here for
[20:19]  Prokofy Neva: it's not good
[20:19]  Kerry Takashi: Its a mutual affiliation.
[20:19]  Prokofy Neva: it's not about benefit sof the doubt and freedom
[20:19]  Kerry Takashi: two to tango
[20:19]  Jordyn Jinx: There are those that believe Stalin was a good man. [PN: Yes, I'm not surprised that Sun Microsystems employees have odious beliefs like this or need to reference odious beliefs like this, and of course, they love open source criminality because it helps their bottom line.]
[20:19]  Prokofy Neva: it's about DESTROYING freedom of association of other people in the name of insisting on yours; it is diabolical; it is unlawful
[20:19]  Prokofy Neva: yes, that would include the Woodburies, as they always appear in Stalin get-ups and sell Stalin coats and props on their land
[20:20]  Prokofy Neva: why defend that? it's banality of evil
[20:20]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, what do you think might be different if you ignored the stalin getups
[20:20]  Helena Whittlesea: or wore your own!
[20:20]  courageous Chrome: she's back
[20:20]  Cube Republic: havnt stalinesque clothes always been popular with students?
[20:20]  Prokofy Neva: I don't ignore criminality, especially criminality involving mass crimes against humanity where my inlaws were murdered
[20:20]  Prokofy Neva: I don't care, that's wrong, it's hideous, it's criminal
[20:21]  Helena Whittlesea: after a point, does it seem as though you sort of allow it to continue if you 'play along' by responding/acknowledging? i mean, i'm asking [PN: Like I said, Helena is being a trolling bitch here, and needs to be called on it, promptly.]
[20:21]  Prokofy Neva: it's just that there is still politically correct idiots who can't equate hitler and Stalin
[20:21]  Helena Whittlesea: some would say the pc thing is to kneejerk respond to a stalin uniform
[20:21]  Helena Whittlesea: you do know that
[20:21]  Prokofy Neva: i was just thinking today one of the reasons this is the case is that Stalin killed many, many more millions than Hitler, and kept a system intact where there were no victors to put it to an end and close the camps, and no survivors were able to openly tell their stories, so it is a hidden violence
[20:21]  Prokofy Neva: No, I don't "know that" Helena
[20:21]  Prokofy Neva: my you are being a witless and whiny bitch tonight
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: it's really unseemly
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: my incorect assumption.
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: beneath you
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: do you not, really? ok.
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: no, namecalling is unseemly.
[20:22]  Cor Ember: Goodnight, all.
[20:22]  courageous Chrome: yes he did
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: it is not "incorrect" or "kneejerK' to call symbols of mass murder what they are: revolting
[20:22]  Stegano Kaczor: later
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: of course they are.
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: namecalling is a good thing
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: you can call them revolting and then move on to the next thing.
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: perhaps it can shock you out of your stupor
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: namecalling is good, stalin uniforms are bad?
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: cartoon stalin uniforms, yet
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: you're in some sort of politically correct haze where you can't see the facts that you normally have no trouble seeing
[20:22]  Rocket Sellers: i've about had it with this no build, noscript, no push, no voice banninated parcel
[20:22]  Helena Whittlesea: prok, stop.
[20:22]  Prokofy Neva: namecalling is good to get you to wak up to your sillyness
[20:23]  Helena Whittlesea: i'd like to have a civil intelligent conversation.
[20:23]  Prokofy Neva: calling someone "PC" in reacting to Stalin uniforms is itself Stalinism
[20:23]  Helena Whittlesea: oh, i'm not sillly.
[20:23]  Prokofy Neva: and YOU know it
[20:23]  Helena Whittlesea: i called the reaction pc. as i believe it is.
[20:23]  Prokofy Neva: and I will NOT be civil to those who can't concede the basic humanity involved in expressing revulsion to Stalinism
[20:23]  Kerry Takashi: His camps certainly gave birth to some of the most dangerous organized criminals in recent history. He is the rancid gift that keeps giving.
[20:23]  Helena Whittlesea: odds are those wearing those stalin uniforms know a tenth of what you know about stalin.
[20:23]  Prokofy Neva: and have to say some fucked up, dumbass, politically correct piece of bullshit as you just did
[20:23]  Prokofy Neva: so?
[20:23]  Helena Whittlesea: indeed. so?
[20:23]  Prokofy Neva: they 'll learn, as you wlil when they are told that they are witless as you are being told because you know better
[20:24]  Prokofy Neva: anyway, I'm done being taunted by you on my own land
[20:24]  Prokofy Neva: get a clue, Helena
[20:24]  Prokofy Neva: read the background and stop enabling crime
[20:24]  Helena Whittlesea: i'll be happy to leave. is that what you'd prefer?

 

UPDATE: Carl Metropolitan, Owner of NCI just released a statement
_____________
NCI Policy: Griefer Groups & NCI Officers
08-27-2009

Effective Tuesday September 1st 2009, no one may hold a position of responsibility at NCI (Land Officer, Helper, Board Member, Manager) while being a member of a hate group or a griefer group. Anyone who is a member of any such group needs to leave that group or leave NCI. If someone holding a position of responsibility at NCI joins such a group, when that affiliation is discovered by NCI management, they will be given a warning and asked to leave either that group or NCI. If they choose to stay in the griefer or hate group, they will be removed from their position of responsibility at NCI.

For the purposes of this policy, the following groups are considered to be hate and/or griefer groups:

Woodbury University (and associated groups)
Patriotic Nigras (and associated groups)

Additional groups may be added to this list when appropriate. Groups may be removed from this list when there is clear and compelling evidence that the group has stopped encouraging or tolerating hate and griefing activities.

Evidence for affiliation with a griefer or hate group shall consist of one or more of the following: 1) the presence of such a group in the Groups list of a person's Profile window, 2) public admission of membership in such a group, or 3) public and well-documented participation in griefing or hate activities alongside members of such groups. The Evidence section of this policy shall not be applied retroactively events or actions prior to 09-01-2009.

---

Now for some explanation:

For the past two weeks I've been more stressed about this than anything I've dealt with in the four years I've been running NCI. People on the BoD have very different beliefs about what should be done (if anything). I understand and sympathize with both sides of this issue. As I told Gramma last night, there is no good solution. The policy I am implementing is a bad solution. It's just what I believe to be the best bad solution.

I had been leaning towards the "ignore it and hope it will go away" solution. To be brutally honest, that usually works. However, over the past few days several things have occurred to push me to this decision.

First, I've learned that the Lindens who run the Community Gateway program are very strict on the issue of griefer groups. The appearance of tacit support by NCI for such groups could endanger Caledon Oxbridge. And since NCI Caledon is seen as an extension of Caledon Oxbridge, a policy of "Griefer group members okay on this side of this line, but not okay on the other side of this line" would likely (and reasonably) be seen as disingenuous equivocation.

Secondly, I've read the comments on Prokofy Neva's recent blog entries on the subject of Woodbury and other griefer groups. Over the last two days, multiple commenters associated with Woodbury have suggested he commit suicide. I'm sorry; I'm not going to tolerate that kind of evil shit anywhere near NCI. I don't care what anyone thinks of Prokofy, that's just beyond the pale.

Three, I've been amazingly stressed and depressed in RL and SL. I've been tearing myself up (among other things) by avoiding making a difficult decision. Avoiding doing what I knew was right, but would piss off people I cared for and respected. That's a bad reason not to do something. And it is a failure of leadership on my part. If I can't make the tough decisions, what does NCI need me for?

I know the policy above is going to upset some people. It goes against the well-considered advice of some of NCI's most active and vital officers. If you strongly disagree, I ask that you please give me the benefit of the doubt and accept this new policy. If you find you can not in good conscience do so, I will understand. This is a contentious issue that people of good will can disagree on.

However, this is a final decision. I'm acting in Executive Director mode. This is not an opening position for debate.

I'm sorry. I wish I had something better.

Carl

***

UPDATE 8/29/09

Here's a response that came in today from Robert Bloomfield (Beyers Sellers) who is going to remain banned from this blog because he is a leader in Metanomics, it is within his power disassociate himeslf from Intlibber, even if he can't stop him from streaming the show and using the brand name. The idea that "anyone can stream it" strikes me as ill-advised as a policy at one level, but it's actually a policy I encourage -- I believe these types of organizations and events *should* publicize their stream because of the limits of SL.

But I also think then that if they find not just their stream but their brand name is being used by griefing groups or to create events that are not in the spirit of their organization, they need to publicly condemn them and urge a cessation of their key words. And I'm not hearing that from this letter, I'm hearing buck-passing to Dusan who is likely to dither.

Also, I'm not the one who suggested Beyers wrote this on the wall; Jynx is the one claiming it and sending me the link. I've pointed out that he is *victory-dancing* which is different.

I believe Beyers when he says he is enough of a ham -- a showboat is what I'd say -- and is sufficiently imbued with vanity that had he chalked this, he'd be pointing to it and looking into the camera with more ownership, but that's not the point; the point is, he's happy to caper in front of it as a background and therefore is complicit in it.

***

Prokofy,

Someone told me that you are now suggesting I wrote Ban Prok on the wall of Linden Lab. 
You'll have to look elsewhere for the author.  My students could tell you that if I had
written Ban Prok it would have been practically illegible, even if it had been at
shoulder level; it looks to me like I would have had to get on my knees to write that
low.  In the picture I am simply hamming for the camera.  I am enough of a ham that if I
wanted to highlight that bit of writing, I would have been far more obvious. 

While I am at it, I notice you have banned me from commenting on your blog because
IntLibber (who I guess has some association with Woodbury I don't understand) has been
showing Metanomics and even has named his parcel that.  Two points on that:  First, we
have several event partners, and we work closely with them.  Int/Woodbury has never been
one of our event partners.  Anyone can stream the show to their own audience, and several
places do.   Whether they can name a parcel Metanomics or show our logo is a different
issue, but that bring me to my second point:  decisions on IP issues and event partners
are now Dusan Writer's (and Remedy Communication's) call, along with all other management
aspects of Metanomics.

Please believe me when I say that I'm sorry to hear that you are experiencing accelerated
griefing lately.  It's painful for you, obviously, but also has potentially chilling
effects across all of SL, especially for the edu/enterprice communities.  I hope that LL
will give you whatever support you need to get this problem under control. 

Robert Bloomfield

Comments

[Prokofy Neva]

BTW, who is this board, half of whom quit?

Deputy Director: Tateru Nino

Tateru is a) an ageplay apologist and edgecaster b) an extremist on questions of tolerating griefing groups because they make interesting scripts c) someone who hates me, so who would take a position against me "just because"

Not sure of how the rest of the votes went, but we'll here eventually, here are some names:

Deputy Director, IT: Garn Conover
Education: Afon Shepherd
Events: Gramma Fiddlesticks
Freebies: Blu Laszlo
InfoNodes: Kaine Lowenstark
Education: Afon Shepherd

[grieftards]

Why do these people remind of the Pranknet goons, as recently expose'd on The Smoking Gun website? A lot of their "star members" are rl sex-offenders(the molesting 5 and 8 year olds variety) as well

Anyways.. Why has LL let things slide for so long that even well-respected(and deservedly so imo) groups like NCI have now been dragged down to this level? Is this really the state the Second-Life world over-all is in? Or rather, wants to be in? I'm not entirely surprised mind you, birds of a feather stick together and all that.

Anything NCI does from here on out will be little more than resting on past laurels, I mean who in their right minds would associate with a start-up help group filled with(and apparently run by) age-players and grieftards(even if these "philanthropists" had the best of intentions)?

[Anon]

I'm glad NCI is taking a stand (finally) and well done to Carl for making that desicion, it can't have been easy.

As for your the dead chickens though it's not much help but GreenShamrock McMahon one of the Sion reps can now re-activate chickens which haven't been rezzed out of your inventory (ie, leave them in your lost and found until you contact her) because Lindens are refusing to do any more chicken-griefed roll backs all across the grid.

[Adric Antfarm]

To say that holding a leadership position in an organization that claims to be educational is incompatible with affiliation to a griefer or hate group doesn't seem unreasonable.

That it's just occurred to someone is odd and to then water that down calling it the least bad decision or act as if you just discovered the Lindens might have issues with groups that harass their customers does somewhat blunt the message.

It also seems strange one can simply cleanse themselves of affiliation in an instant like taking that step from KKK to NAACP or reverse provided one leaves the other first.

I don't see Tate being an age play apologist, but I don't subscribe to them having a lobby either.

Oh the chickens. They are gone. Hamlet says turtles are next big waste of L. Time to move on. It's too easy a twit even for the comically challenged SecondLie.

A success in pushing reform, but creating a martyr often succeeds in taking out one enemy only to create an army of them.

[Sioban McMahon]

Good for Carl for taking a difficult stand. NCI can't have any links to griefer groups. As the head of NCI, he has to keep the reputation of the group in mind, even when others can't.

[bladyblue Bommerang]

Immy was a complete stranger to Prok until Immy just happen to come around Prok's property and Prok noticed in her groups she was a Woodbury University member - it was - and continues to be - a blanket ban Prok chooses to place on any WU member. It is her land - she can ban whom she likes.

Immy wanted to cash-in on her 15 minutes of fame as a Prok target - but she hid behind being a SL Mentor and a NCI Officer when she distributed her press release all over the net. Prok is as serious as a heart attack and she pushes back. Knowing this - why fuck with her? Why distribute her blog all over the place if you do not agree with it? Seems foolhearty. The one little blog post would have just faded away had it been ignored.

I assume Carl's rule on NCI officers not being in griefer groups has been thrown out. So NCI is now wide open for WU members to join and move up in the ranks. Just wonderful.

NCI Leadership
Deputy Director: Tateru Nino
Deputy Director, IT: Garn Conover
Education: Afon Shepherd
Events: Gramma Fiddlesticks
Freebies: Blu Laszlo
InfoNodes: Kaine Lowenstark
Education: Afon Shepherd

Unless Immy bows down to Carl's authority, decides to follow his new griefer rules for NCI these people will start a messy power-grab within NCI that will be forum fodder for months to come.

It is quite sad that a guy can dedicate 4 years to building something and one volunteer can tear it down within a week.

[jim alpha]

Heh...

I keep re-reading Prok's exchange with Rodney.

One of these days it would be nice for Prok to explain which comment he made was him being 'insolent'

Because for the life of me, I can only see Rodney Linden being pleasant with Prokofy in that log, and Prokofy being very insulting to Rodney, very rude indeed.

I suppose if you don't do what Prok wants, you are insolent?

frankly, if Prokofy had treated me or any other human being like that in RL, they'd have found themselves in a very unhappy situation.

Hats off to ya Rod, you were able to not take the prok-troll-bait.

ce'st la vie...

[Darien Caldwell]

I really do feel bad for Carl. If ever there was an example of being between a rock and a hard place, this is it.

I'm glad to see he made the decision that was in the best interests of NCI as a whole, and everyone affiliated with NCI should be glad as well. Board members can be replaced, But no NCI at all would be a travesty.

[Prokofy Neva]

Chickens are not over, that's just Hamlet being a dick.

blady, every time you decide to "help" and "defend" you are in fact always insidiously making it worse, and that may be deliberate. I didn't "blanket ban" this Imnotgoing sideways, or engage in "guilt by association" because he had the Woodbury tag. I banned him *because he came with a group of griefers to disrupt my events, not once, but a number of times*. He tries to word-salad out of this by saying he came "alone," but if he comes after a string of them, sorry, he goes. And if he comes *again* to another event *with* a group of them disrupting with prims, spam, etc. *he goes*. He is put in the ban list. It's not personal, it's not a "heart attack," it's what you do if you want to keep having events. If for *yet another* time you schedule an event and once again, find him lurking in the area, then, sorry, he gets banned from the NCI and the plaza near the event *too*. I hadn't even studied his NCI connection until I saw that now what he was doing was arriving just before an event, and bringing in others of them, and then standing around in the NCI node "helping a newbie" which I saw from the chat they in fact hazing below the radar, in the way they always do. I do not need to participate in that.

At that point, I had only one objective, to prevent my events from being harassed by Woodbury assholes. I didn't make any requests of NCI to remove IMG; I told the supervisor of the IMG workers who harangued me that if IMG needed to help newbies so bad, he could do it at any one of the many other nodes out there, not this one.

Adrid is another "friend" who pretends to support the cause against griefers and then griefs more himself. I don't create martyrs by taking a stand and putting in my ban list fucktards who disrupt my events. They create their own martyrs. It would be like blaming Israel for suicide bombing, which I don't; martyr-creation responsibility belongs squarely on the shoulders of the criminalized movements who foster them. If more of them are spawned by doing normal things like crime control, you work harder in a variety of ways, some military, some law-enforcement, some civilian and social, to deter and hopefully end the issue, but you don't roll over.

Carl himself has quit NCI. So Woodbury University in SL, by infiltrating and attacking and forcing this venerable and good group of SL to confront the problem of their criminality split and harmed this group. That was their goal all along. That's what vicious little nonentities like IMG hope to accomplish.

Carl did the right thing; the half board members are wrong. He should have remained in the organization and ridden them out, so that they, as coddlers of griefing and harassment, would be isolated, and not him, as a liberal who draws the line when liberalism itself is threatened by the criminal.

The Sun Microsystems guy would then be isolated as the thug he was, aiding and abetting an edgecasing ageplay freak and Woodbury goon.

As for Rodney, any normal person can see he his being an insolent ass. His *coming there in the first place with Tizzers* to "see the donkey" and ridicule and heckle me by extension is the first act of insolence, and it goes downhill from there.

His trying to hand me a bear repeatedly when I'm calling him on being a griefer-coddler is the next big instance of insolence and any grown-up can see that.

It's preposterous to give Rodney the benefit of the doubt when he shows up in a griefer outfit at the behest of a griefer and behaves like a griefer. Don't want to be seen as any of those things? Then don't be those things and do those things, hello?

A ban on your parcel in Second Life is like an order of protection. If I had gotten an order of protection against a griefing marauder who had numerous times come and harassmed and and harmed my business, and he showed up there again, this time with a cop, but in a public place only near the place where I had an order of protection, and they both deliberately taunted me and the cop tried to keep handing me a teddy bear, it wouldn't be me cooling my heels at the station, it would be that cop's supervisor reviewing his conduct.

A reminder of why IMG refuses to leave his griefer group: it's a badge of honour and a tribal insignia which he has won through commiting offenses that are perversely "credits" in that tribal system.

[Yep]

Rodney doesn't wear a griefer outfit, his AV is unique.

On this point you need to admit your error.

I should know, since I helped him build part of it.

[Prokofy Neva]

It's not an error.

Rodney is wearing a classic robot/cybernatic/aggressive warrior outfit that griefers wear. Add to that the scythe moving through the air ready to smite anyone ruthlessly, and you completely the picture.

It's a cynical and menacing outfit and it associates him with griefers.

[Adric Antfarm]

Putting quotes around friend doesn't have the intended effect since I know I've made it further than most who never get past "commie bastard prick" and I've had hair dryers thrown at me, so you are only about mid-pack of my estrogen attacks.

Who knows, I think as the years past I can perhaps even advance to single quotes.

I'm not sure about the grief (which did not merit quotes) thing. If by this you mean not agreeing with 100% of what you say or perhaps not wanting to fight a 24/7 street battle where there can be no winner, guilty as charged. If it's the clown stuff, I am trying to do a better Prok, just give me time.

The update; I've never seen anyone in the edu world give a direct reply and this chilling shit is just that- shit. It would have no effect on the edu crowd if they choose to disassociate themselves from it.

I don't feel it's moral to send off the intellectuals to Siberia, but I can sort of see where they were going with that.

Someone clue me in here. What the hell is this griefer outfit all about? Don't tell me they run around like trek geeks in uniforms...

[Yep]

There is nothing wrong with Rodney's AV, itis cyberpunk. If you knew anything about him then you'd know that William Gibson, Neal Stephenson and other scifi authors are his heroes.

Just because you hate cyberpunk doesn't make it griefer AV

do you want to ban all cyberpunk content next?

Howabout steampunk?

You have no right to insult all of us cyberpunk fans this way. This is rude, arrogant, intolerant and vile of you.

Leave cyberpunk alone Prokofy.

[Prokofy Neva]

Um, there's plenty wrong with cyberpunk. It's nihilist and destructive. I'm not required to celebrate cyberpunk, or applaud its use by Linden Lab staff as a way to engage in under-the-radar menacing of customers.

I repudiate Neal Stephenson's Snowcrash as a destructive and nihilist work, and I don't celebrate its ideologies, prescriptive technologies, or outcomes. I view it as a dystopia.

You don't have to "ban all of cyberpunk and steampunk" to notate that when these groups menace and harass and indulge in coddling of criminality you draw the line on them.

I don't care if someone sees my calling out of Rodney Linden's bear-insolence as some "insult to all of cyberpunkdom" such as to come whistle to all *their* thugs to grief me moar blah blah. If that's how they are, they expose themselves in doing this.

I don't think Rodney's outfit is really a very friendly outfit for Linden Lab to have. I realize they have to indulge their code kiddies in the code cave with this concession to their puerile culture. I'm unimpressed.

[Prokofy Neva]

As usual, Adric, you're nearly coherent, trying to make so many cool references to many uber intelligent things -- you and cube3 should get together, you're two peas in a pod.

Yes, they run around in trek uniforms. If they don't scream "Beam Me Up Scotty" or the modern day memes like Nurse, Nurse, Meko Miko whatever or memes like that, it's because they are just *slightly* restrained but not by much.

[Goodbye]

You have no right to tell anyone how they should dress...

you ARE arrogant and intolerant.

... LEAVE CYBERPUNK ALONE.

[Adric Antfarm]

I am so using that line as a tag. Dale was going to be it with "best barely-comprehensible" but you are very good with words.

Cube3? Let me see.. Oh, I've always wanted to hang with someone who posts 300 images of spaceships. Just to ask them if they've ever seen another adult naked, but still.

I hear a hairball being coughed up. Must go offer comfort to my girl (and clean it up).

[Prokofy Neva]

Er, it's not telling somebody "how to dress" to express my legitimate revulsion at a get-up that involves a scythe moving through the air simulating executions by a cyber-grim reaper. It's just normal civilization.

Cyberpunk is one of those countercultures that the Lab seems to want to sequester a bit, and small wonder, given the aggressiven thuggery they incite when they say "if you criticize how we are dressed, we will get you."

[Goodbye]

Cyberpunk and Steampunk are a part of SL.

I wonder if Desmond from the Caledon sims will love to hear about how you just defamed him and his friends in Caledon.

You just insulted a large part of the grid.

[Adric Antfarm]

"You just insulted a large part of the grid. "

ATTENTION GRID! WOULD THE PART THAT HAS YET TO BE INSULTED BY PROKOFY NEVA PLEASE RAISE YOU HAND? SHE WILL GET TO YOU AS TIME ALLOWS.

ANYONE?

HELLO?

[Prokofy Neva]

Er, I didn't insult "all of cyberpunk and steampumnk, part of SL, and Caledon".

I said I think Rodney Linden's outfit is a griefer outfit and menacing. If it turns out that Rodney's outfit is a cyberpunk outfit that is cherished and embraced by a "large part of the grid" and they now feel they have experienced "guilt by association" and "insult," from anonymous fucktards named "Goodbye," then, well, they can do what they'll do, but I will a) be banning Goodbye as a grieftard himself who is violating my rules here requiring publication of a valid SL or RL name to keep posting and b) not caring what "the grid" thinks, as per usual and c) enjoying, on a selective, basis myself, those parts of cyberpunk/steampunk culture that don't at all seem tied to griefing.

As for one anonymous fucktard who thinks he can whistle and sic "the grid" or "most of the grid" on my and entire constituents of countercultures, good Lord, what an ass.

I think Rodney's outfit is inappropriate for work attire, even for a grid monkey in a virtual world.

I'd be happier if these Lindens all wore polo shirts with their names stitched on the pocket like the gas station attendants that they are.

[TooFunny]

In order to dig yourself out of the hole of insulting rodney, you insulted all of cyberpunk, then to dig yourself out of the hole of insulting all of cyberpunk, you then insulted all of Linden Lab by calling all of them 'gas station attedants' ...

great job!

"I'd be happier if these Lindens all wore polo shirts with their names stitched on the pocket like the gas station attendants that they are." -Prokofy Neva

^^ THIS IS NOW ON MY PROFILE PAGE! :)

[Crap Mariner]

"Famous people like Crap"

I needed a laugh tonight.

Thanks,
-ls/cm

[Prokofy Neva]

Er, I don't need to dig myself out of any hole "insulting Rodney". If saying that Rodney's outfit looks like a griefer get-up and seems to make common cause with griefers like Woodbury, then so be it, I'm happy to insult him, over and over again.

I think it would be better if gridmonkeys and indeed all the customer service Lindens wore polo shirts with their name stitched on them to reflect their retiring and modest role as mere gardeners/mechanics/upkeepers like gas station attendants, rather than to have them arrogate themselves to power-hungry monsters, which putting themselves in costumes like this helps them do.

People can get mad at my insults all they like. If they want respect, and don't want to be called children, gas-attendants, or griefers, they need to stop answer teleports to sims I work on and coming and being insolent to me and being secret-sharers in the ongoing griefing of me. End of story.