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    « Comrades | Main | Landmarks Petition »

    November 10, 2009

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    Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Reprising the Enterprise: Will Working in SL Work?:

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    Ciaran Laval

    Neither Ewan or I called for an end to grandfathering for all, we called for an end to grandfathering on transfer. There's a big difference between the two and you damn well know it.

    melponeme_k

    "That's where the Lindens hustle starts to let the mask slip -- because they really do see the main grid still *primarily* as a launching pad to create more enterprise customers, likely conceived as the greatest profit center in the future."

    LL is now in the business of birthing baby grids. This is the ultimate end result. Think of SL as a place to teach companies how to run an interactive world. The companies will get to experiment concepts on their closed grids while their reps scrape our data on the main grid. They can't get rid of us, we are the Dumbo, Shibuya, Portobello Road etc of virtual worlds.

    They will sell our tacky behinds back to us within the next few years.

    They just don't want to be public because they don't want us to see what they do take.

    cube inada

    "He could reveal the entire thing was merely a prototype for business to generate lots of scrap -- that now was *in the way and had to get gone*.


    i THOUGHT i did.?;)

    Cynical Optimist-

    ive used this term to describe my being for decades...

    I accept that filter unconditionally.:)

    Ive learned you cant tell anyone anything, Experience is all that seperates expert from amature. BOTH can love the work.

    Experience ends the amature.. but its not free or fast. Its not something as SHINY as Meta. IT has value. It Can be VALUE.

    darkest before the dawn,,,yada yada. or not.

    p-2 -- im not taking the test.;)
    But soon hunger may force me to steal the Burritos.

    Prokofy

    Ciaran, you did not make it clear that you specified transfer, that is not what you said on the forums even if you clarified later in the blogs, so stop being an ass.

    Max Burns "PixPol"

    Prokofy --

    Loved the amusing write-up of my blog. I'd love to be smart enough for malevolence. Wish I were as much of a D.C. lobbying fat-cat as you make me seem!

    AnnOtooleInSL

    Maybe LL needs to pay a little more attention to the fact the FTC has them on their radar which means they can easily fall into the FTC's sights. Attempting to control and manipulate international trade is the domain of Congress not Linden Lab. I advise Klingdon to make the changes in his staff necessary to remove the old guard that practices blatant favoritism and seeks to control and manipulate international trade. I think there are some racketeering laws that may apply as well.

    "Traditionally, the word racket is used to describe a business that is based on the example of the "protection racket" and indicates that the speaker believes that the business is making money by selling a solution to a problem that it created (or that it intentionally allows to continue to exist), specifically so that continuous purchases of the solution are always needed. Example: in a protection racket, a representative from the racket informs a storeowner that a fee of X dollars will be required every month for protection money, though the "protection" that is provided comes in the form of the racket itself not causing damage to the store or its employees."

    In effect Linden Lab would do well to completely reset the solution provider program in it's entirety and start over by disallowing any participation in it by anyone involved in it's current configuration. I'm sure there are best practices somewhere to follow that don't include favoritism and attempting to control international trade.

    Alternatively Linden Lab can dispense with all of the issues in a single move and close the Second Life Grid and be done with it and only sell SLE. They simply won't need many consultants to provide content and they can be happy with their cottage business and leave the development of the 3D Metaverse to other organizations with an active interest like Microsoft who has execution capability like no other and who is likely to advance the 3D Metaverse faster than anyone else can. Heck even the video game companies are shifting to "MMOFPS" where war endlessly rages in large scale "grids". I think someone is missing the good intel on what all is really going on in this business space.

    Right now it feels more like LL is just keeping the main grid open for a money stream and have little intention of advancing it while they are fully focused on SLE. What do they need for that? 10 developers?

    Klingdon needs to stand up and state in unambiguous words exactly what *his* Second Life looks like in 2010, 2011, 2012, and beyond so people can make the adjustments and plans they need to make.

    Prokofy Neva

    Max, are you going to correct the record of your mistakes about this program that are TERRIBLY misleading or just misrepresent it to hype to your clients?

    What's to research, Hmz, that Ciaran is an ass and is double-talking himself out of this now? But I knew that.

    LeVey Palou

    "Right now it feels more like LL is just keeping the main grid open for a money stream and have little intention of advancing it while they are fully focused on SLE. What do they need for that? 10 developers?"

    And in a nutshell you have stated what all of us have known but not said in so many words. That they plan to fleece the residents for every penny before ultimately pissing on us.

    With the homestead fiasco they knew what they were doing. The Lab made enormous profit on both ends of that abortion.

    This platform means so much to so many people...it is a personal experience, people live out their dreams and fantasies through this medium.

    That means nothing to the Lab, the fact that they have a responsibility to people that is more altruistic than their need for capital which they make in abundance already. I am ok with them making money, I want them to make money, but I also want them to acknowledge this amazing product means something.

    That is the real shame in all this I believe. They missed the most important factor about their product and it is the factor they wish to to excommunicate.

    Prokofy Neva

    I actually think that's a pretty primitive interpretation, LeVey, and you should stop being so self-referential about all this. I don't think "it means nothing" as anybody who had a product that produced people who would stay on it 40 or even 100 hours a week wuold have to grasp what they had, even if their attitude toward it was cynical and derisive.

    While it is true that these very rich people put in their own money, and don't have that same feel of a need to work and gain profits the way we might, they have still made it a goal to make the company profitable, which apparently it is, barely, but they've ploughed the profits back into development to make it better (to me, begging the question of whether they really are profits then if so much development is needed).

    I think the Lindens realize that many people's hopes and dreams are attached to their product, but long ago, in 2005-2006, they began to make it clear that there is the product and their need to market it, and your hopes and dreams, and they are separate, and they are not responsible for your use of their product.

    They aren't interested in making a world with us, which is what I thought they were at first, so it's a disappointment, but, hopefully, one could be made without them.

    I think if you read the interviews with M Linden, you can't fault him for not saying SL means something, although my main take-home about it is that he is mainly just buzzing in market-speak about its cool features.

    Still, I don't think you're really realizing what it means for someone like Kingdon to come and take on this very risky and complex position and to put the positive energy he has put into it. Have you ever had to do something like that in RL? I have. It's hard.

    You would have to say, without even being a fanboy, that he has improved performance and is trying to get more sales (which he did with XStreet's buy) and better service and more signups (which hopefully the viewer will deliver -- that's the proof of the entire pudding if he does).

    I think people fall into this bitter self-pitying shtick around Second Life which is mainly about their inability to try to make things of their own with or without the Lindens.

    I've always tried to find projects that doesn't rely on them, and then when I hit a wall where they are in the way and causing a problem, I start petitions, publicize things, etc. and try to change it, and if it's impossible, I try to find something else to do. Ultimately, there are the limitations one should expect from a place that is only on the Internet and not in your real home.

    I do feel they haven't quite got the mixture right for what they need to do to ease the transition. The messaging is so horrible from Amanda Linden and some of the others precisely because they are cynical marketing MBAs for whom those "hopes and dreams" things are just silly abstractions that they think of quaintly as the culture of people they have contempt for. But I don't think all the Lindens are like that from what I've seen, and I'm not sure the most cynical Lindens will stick around anyway.

    Ultimately, you have to take it a a good sign of their decency that so many Lindens who saw this coming, who knew about these things before we did because they were inside, left the company, whether Robin or Jesse or Everett or Sidewinder, they may not have specifically left over the more cynical commercialization of SL, but it was all part of the mix.

    I think we can't object to the cold commercialization of SL in ways that we will find sick-making being too close to the making of the sausage. What we can insist on however is policies that do not harm us. That we have to wring out of them, and I said, here has to be a transaction cost for their stepping on us.

    I'm actually hoping that as rocky as the ride has been, the Lindens are going to pull up their socks, get rid of opensource extremism at its most destructive, as the did with ad farms and bots, and they're going to more or less chart a course that will preserve some of what was the old SL, but of course, not all of it.

    Passing Merchant

    hmm enterprise solutions on a special super useful grid, when LL told staff to relocate or lose job...

    Way to promote your own product

    LeVey Palou

    "The messaging is so horrible from Amanda Linden and some of the others precisely because they are cynical marketing MBAs for whom those "hopes and dreams" things are just silly abstractions that they think of quaintly as the culture of people they have contempt for. "

    Agreed. You said it clearer than I did.

    "and they're going to more or less chart a course that will preserve some of what was the old SL, but of course, not all of it."

    Good grief how much is left now and will there be any left when they are done?

    I think too much of the culture is lost already. I feel it was cast aside without any regard and that really concerns me.

    But I will also say yes there are good Lindens aboard. Most of concierges are a decent group, the evening shift in particular. The problem I see though and what I throw stones at is they are not decision makers. If those Lindens who were in touch with the community were at the helm SL would be a much better place. I would rather spend my time praising than condemning because frankly I find it taxing on my fiber to complain so much.

    I used to take great joy in advocating SL to people who had never heard of this before. I miss that feeling.

    With kingdon I do not feel he ever appreciated the culture here. When he was new and we were greeting him and excited to have a noobie leader with fresh ideas and we shared with him our creations, our visions, our hopes and dreams I feel he was mentally attaching price tags on what he saw and not sharing in it's rapture. I feel his vision of the goal is far from any of ours. He wants to make this something ugly, some thing corporate. Something AOL.

    I hope you are the one who turns out to be right and I turn out to be way off base on this matter.


    Tracy Welles

    "This is turning from an Idea and Suggestion, into a torrent of Abuse and Dogma. Which is a shame, as it's starting to smack of blog-bullying."

    Pretty much what I said. If it's not war on one thing, it's war on something else.

    I still say Prok should take all of her skill and put it to fine use in programming. If she could get just half of what she writes done in code, we would have web 5.0 here by now.

    And while everyone wants to make a big deal about this SLE, I'll stick to what I stated which is that the whole thing is just to put another product out there to better the "image" of the company. I don't think you will see it do much. But that's just my opinion.

    Tracy Welles

    "That's retarded of course, because what is locked down in the SL Enterprise Workplace Store isn't copyright, and it isn't locked so that copyright can be protected; it's locked to create protectionism for one connected class of people."

    Come on Prok, you wouldn't like it if you were having a meeting and flying penises flooded the sim. The fact is, these divisions, whether they work or not, should be done. They feel just as I do, which is why I moved to opensim behind a firewall. Nothing different here, there need be a separation and that is why Linden moved the pornsters to pornster islands. It only makes sense to me and I wish Linden would have done all this long ago.


    Prokofy Neva

    Tracy, you are obviously young and ignorant and inexperienced. Do you do anything besides teleport between worlds in your interoperability group or are you just an alt? You're obviously a typical asshole British hater of Americans, and that is usually a product of ignorance -- particularly blindness about your own government's similar positions. For example, raging about the U.S. getting into wars while seemingly heedless of the fact that the UK was right in their along with them, seemingly "knowing better". And prejudice against me for being an American, and assumption that I suppose these wars, which I don't. In fact, if anything, maybe the world needs to see how the Iran-Iraq war and the Russian-Afghanistan wars played out with no Western involvement, and see if their consciences could live with it. These are impossible issues to resolve and ignorant rantings about Americans going to war is just wilful petulance and moral blindness.

    Your statements are all non-sequiturs. You're once again mixing up the need to have a free flow of products and people with the need to have a firewall. They can be combined simply by creating procedures. Not everything is decided by code. It's fine for companies to have firewalled sims, although it's not even really about penises from residents, it's about keeping their communications hidden *from Linden Lab itself*. That's obviously the biggest issue for them -- who needs to have all their business information in the hands of one omnipotent even if small company?!

    My point about the penises is that the corporations who in fact ran these sims ran them poorly without even the basic security that a club or mall would have put on, even it were run by hired hands.

    A club owner holding a wet t-shirt contest at a club would have routinely done more to lock down their sim from attacks than Daniel Terdiman from C-NET and Millions of Us did with their sim. THAT was the problem, ultimately.

    I'm not for blaming the victim or blaming the lack of security as the primary problem, when griefers are the problem, and Linden Lab's negligence in dealing with them all these years instead of creating working groups with them and having brown-bag lunches with them. (That tactic is often taken by chicken-killers, who blame the deaths of chickens on people who won't lock down sims, rather than blaming it on themselves for their violence.)

    But if the point is to claim all threats come from the resident population, here's an example where Daniel Terdiman, tech writer, couldn't turn on autoreturn or use estate ban efficiently before or during this attack, and MOU had not set it up so he could or had people present who could act quickly (or perhaps they were present and negligence, this is one of those topics debated to this day, as some darkly believe this was a conspiracy to discredit Anshe deliberately).

    Brinda Allen

    @LeVey Palou....RE: The Secondlife Dream...well said.

    Prokofy

    You know, it's interesting to note that while Amanda Linden spent five years at Organic with Kingdom, likely being his office wife practically, before that she was -- get this! -- at Mother Earth News. So she has this sort of green hippie cred that they love at the Lab. She conceived of leaving Organic as "leaving" marketing. And it's true. Because what they do at LL with their product there is less like marketing and more like propagandizing and like the Soviet active measures system.

    Did you know there are facebook.com ads now for Second Life?! And when you click them, you go to a new website with new stuff, even newer than the black Hollywood Squares site.

    cube inada

    facebook with a landing page? that good news.

    good. bring in new people and have linden pay for that.

    thats why i pay them.

    Tracy Welles

    "Tracy, you are obviously young and ignorant and inexperienced. Do you do anything besides teleport between worlds in your interoperability group or are you just an alt? You're obviously a typical asshole British hater of Americans."

    Ouch,

    Now I know how Benjamin Duranske felt when trying to communicate with you.

    You pegged me all wrong and slandered a fellow American. Not only that, everything you write is quite to the contrary.

    Personal attacks will get you no where.

    Have a great day. I'm sorry our communications will have to subside now, I won't be personally attacked just because this is your web site.

    Prokofy Neva

    Ouch right back at you sister.

    If you don't want to be taken for a douche, don't behave like a douche.

    If you don't want to sound like a typical British wanker American hater, don't.

    If you don't want to sound young and stupid, don't.

    Personal attacks are *all* that you understand.

    Your original manner and tone is what evokes this from me, and will every time until you stop. Bye!

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