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    « FAQs on SLE | Main | Cube Republic, Come Meet at the Dam now! »

    November 06, 2009

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    melponeme_k

    He'll probably be back one day as a GSP. *shrug*

    cube inada

    never knew him,
    but i just read his blog...

    first post references his joining the TAO of Linden...

    thought Id hyperlink...

    https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/features/blog/2006/07/25/the-tao-of-linden

    And melponeme has it "transparently" pegged i think.

    robs bio reads like one will start of a silly animal consultant group thats gonna focus on SL Enterprise support and consulting.

    millions of sheep maybe?

    best to him.

    Troy McLuhan

    In most democratic countries, the constitution and laws are all written down. They're not secret; they're open for inspection by anyone.

    Unfortunately, things like constitutions and laws are written in legalese that's difficult to understand. Legalese is probably necessary. Legal writings must codify the intent of the lawmakers with minimum ambiguity. The result is that only a select group of people (a closed society) can understand and work with the law.

    I may not like the fact that only a closed society of people can really work with the law in any meaningful way, but I understand why it *is* that way. It's not because the legal code is open. It's because legal code is inherently difficult to understand.

    Laws are not the only kind of code required to make a modern nation function. The computer code that controls e-voting machines is another important piece of code required for the proper functioning of a modern country.

    Just as it's a good thing to have an open legal code, it's also a good thing to have open computer code for e-voting machines. Just as it takes a legal professional to understand legal code, it takes a computer programmer to understand computer code.

    While I might not understand legal code or e-voting machine computer code, I recognize the importance of having it open for all to inspect, even if only a select few can make any sense of it. The machinery of democracy is too important to be kept secret.

    Prokofy Neva

    Troy, that's a completely specious and ridiculous reading of Constitutional law.

    Legal code is not "inherently difficult" to understand because it is written in a human language that any educated person can read and at least try to understand and use dictionaries to understand further. Any educated person can grasp the basis premise of a law -- and I mean with a 12-year-old 6th grade education! Not so computer code that is not comprehensible unless you learn it like a special separate language.

    Any educated person can grasp what this means, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech".

    You are COMPLETELY missing the point about the e-democracy here.

    The argument against opensource code in electronic democracy is against THE CULTURE OF OPENSOURCE, NOT THE LITERAL FACT OF CODE BEING OPEN OR CLOSED.

    The CULTURE is one in which binary thinkers and extremists insist on things like "we can't have a 'no' vote because then it would be bombed". Well, yes votes can be bombed too, and no votes are extremely important devices to mitigate against the spamming of yes votes!

    Or they say "we need to have what is voted yes remain visible and drive out of view what is voted no".

    Or "representative democracy doesn't work, we need massive direct e-voting on everything" -- completely ignoring the problem of who gets to frame the vote (the coders want that power only for themselves), how people are informed, and who participates -- and what to do about those not participating -- the coder believes entirely in the "tyranny of who shows up".

    Then one can have a separate discussion as to whether code should be open or closed. I reject the idea that some blessing is conferred on this process by having opensource, not only because of the awful hideous culture of opensource coders I've just explained, their tyrannical and messianic belief in their own rectitude on these matters, but the idea that you are preventing some evil corporation or evil government office from prevailing in doing these same bad things by having opensource -- when in fact their claims of evil representative government and evil corprations are specious and often bunkum.

    One might be able to demonstrate that the code is more secure when it is proprietary. In fact, it only becomes insecure because of the legions of opensource that then busy themselves cracking it because they think for ideological reasons "it has to be cracked" and for big IT that needs them to crack it so they can then 'sell solutions'. This evil racket is visible all over and having it invading the voting process is unacceptable.

    You've made a completely specious parallel between the "coding" of legal language anyone can read without having to disrupt democracy itself with opensource culture, and "the need to be able to read machine code" which in fact ushers in that disruptive and even criminal culture.

    Need to read it...so you can tinker with it?
    Need to read it...so you can harm it?
    Need to read it...because you think democracy is for dopes and you want to be in charge?
    etc.

    Banks don't open up their code either, Troy, and likely there are idiots who go around claiming the notion that "all property is theft" and banks should liberate all their cash to the opensource movement on the Internet and allow them to read their code. Perhaps you can see the lunacy in that example, and see the efficacy of creating secure code for voting machines that script kiddies can't hack, tinker with etc.

    There is absolutely no proof that having proprietary code makes it "more vulnerable to hacking and exploits and bugs" than having it opensource.

    Many opensource freaks make that claim aggressively, but I don't see that it's the case, anywhere, now that we have this process so visible in SL.

    It's been my profound and repeated experience that when I find a bug or flaw in design, like 'return on share with group,' rather than that leading to fixing it, it leads to the most aggressive, hateful denial of the truth by arrogant, ideological *fucktards* commandeering the JIRA. Rob was one of them.

    Melissa Yeuxdoux

    It's impressive to see so much ignorance invested in and endlessly and loudly proclaimed by one person.

    "One might be able to demonstrate that code is more secure when it's proprietary." Actually, no, one can't. Counting on secret algorithms for security violates one of the principles famously set forth by Auguste Kerckhoffs in 1883.

    "There is absolutely no proof that having proprietary code makes it 'more vulnerable to hacking and exploits and bugs' than having it opensource." Nobody's saying that, save to the extent that having more people examining code for bugs makes it more likely that they'll be found and corrected. What is the case is that people who think that hiding security algorithms makes them more secure are deluding themselves.

    Prokofy Neva

    >Nobody's saying that, save to the extent that having more people examining code for bugs makes it more likely that they'll be found and corrected.

    The Big Lie of opensource.

    It's one of those mathematical truisms that in fact doesn't really play out if you examine it factually.

    Having 1,000 identical nasty nerds like you, Melissa, who beligerently refuse to see where a bug *is* because of your mindset, disseminated through your closed tribal ranks, isn't progress to get some bugs that need finding.

    And that occurs in the opensource setting where no one has any obligation to a paying customer or the public at large.

    The refusal to admit the "share return" bug is one of the obvious examples of my point. But there are others, having to do with the inability to stop the copybot on the PJIRA for two months...

    Rex Cronon

    @ Melissa Yeuxdoux:
    -actually, having a secret algorithm does make it a little harder. you see the hacker has to first obtain the algorithm. what is even more interesting is that the algorithm could be part of the key:)
    -there is one more advantage to having many people look over code. it is possible that only a few can discover a flow and they can use it to their advantage until it such flaw is made public:)

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