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« Only Human: Avatar's Triumph of the American Rugged Individualist | Main | Ruffles »

December 25, 2009

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cube inada

"remember how cube3 couldn't answer the question of how he'd like his world to *be* then, after he was done griping about all the wrong ways they were made?) "

;)

i think my answer was more..
i "wouldnt."
not for free and not just to be virtually another " metapundit" with more "blog/conference cred" than actual product/viewser successes;)

Another winter is here. Good riddance to last springs weeds.;)

Next springs weeds should try to come with Nav'i hair... but Earths Gaia dont play that game;)

Happy Holidaze.


AnnOtooleInSL

You forgot to mention just how bad allowing your staff to develop a plutocracy through nepotism is.

Yes I still make stuff. Not as much as I used to. Maybe SL will survive. But I doubt it.

If you change Second Life into Facebook and lose the heart and soul of it along the way then is it still Second Life? Or is it just a barking zombie dog chasing the Facebook van?

The problem with all tech companies is their execs think they are superior beings above the law and know better than anyone else. Which is why they always run out of investor dollars and close up shop after everyone sees the truth and begins making superior decisions about where to place their limited resources. Phillip Rosedale got a long run out of Second Life by allowing it to grow like the organism it is and needs to remain in order to survive. He quit. That Second Life is over. Perhaps the new Second Life will turn out to have "more expect-able results" or less "unexpected content" or whatever corporate speak they are using to describe total control by the plutocracy.

Like those freaks that grow cats in jars. You have a more predictable "experience".

Merry Christmas Prok!

Prokofy Neva

Well, I didn't "forget," it's just that I figure everyone is tired of reading about the plutocracy.

>Or is it just a barking zombie dog chasing the Facebook van?

Now is that ever a vivid image!

Merry Christmas to you too Ann!

melponeme_k

Well, I really hope SL sticks around for as long as possible. There isn't anything else out there to compare it to right now. And I'm not sure that there will ever be anything like it again.

Basically because it attracts ornery pioneers, people who like to rock boats and are willing to work with wonky prototype platforms. When the people these VRs really want are the passive types who log into WoW.

I really do agree that the basis of the problem is avatar creation. The creation of an avatar is a deeply emotional and psychological experience. It requires digging deep down and actually...well...facing who we are as people. This isn't something people really want to do with games. They want to forget who they are in a VR environment not find themselves. Its why ALTS never work. We are always running into ourselves. Its inescapable.

Yumi Murakami

Happy Christmas and New Year :)

I don't think it's _quite_ the case of "virtualizing" bothering people because they don't have an inner life of imagination. I think it's because, if they want to immerse themselves in imagination, they want to feel _better_ than they do in RL. One thing about SL is that by enabling individuals to create, it reminds other individuals of what might be a painful truth - that they can't. As was posted on the SL General forum way back, "in SL there are less excuses, so it hurts more". Who really wants to immerse themselves in a world that leaves you feeling like a failure?

As for Metaplace, it's not hard to see what the problem there was: it was too hard to make it possible to actually *do* anything, and they had too many teen users (who were happy to create and spend time, but didn't have any real money).

Prokofy Neva

There were teenagers in Metaplace?

I think you're projecting your own chronic inner sense of inferiority and poor self-esteem, but at least you're more honest about it than most geeks.

I'm unable to do any of that sophisticated creation, but far from making me feel "pain," I simply buy it and rearrange it on my property, I love it. Can't you appreciate art and craftsmenship without having to be able to do it yourself?!

I got a few steps with Metaplace in making up a lot, and was getting a bit further when they added more prefabs but basically I was frustrated that it wasn't like the Sims. Ok, I was spoiled.

Yumi Murakami

Whenever I went to look in Central, the people there were always teenagers - or at least, they claimed to be, and as a result be unable to get credit cards.

Oh, I _can_ appreciate art and craftsmanship, certainly. The question is, would doing so be part of the "inner life of imagination" you talk about, and the answer to that - in my case at least - is no, and I think that's common. Most people don't have imaginary lives as art critics! :)

Desmond Shang

I had my first visitor in "real life" from my online life, the other day. A local and a decent chap; he's a Caledon citizen and Disney artist, in "real life."

He taught me something really valuable over some KFC, green beans and mash.

There's entertainment, and there's fun.

Entertainment, is what others can do to make you smile.

Fun is what you can do yourself, to make yourself smile.

* * * * *

Entertainment is typically the purview of the deeply talented; the movie makers, the dedicated artisans, the writers ~ to entertain someone over the course of a couple of hours might be a multimillion dollar proposition.

Fun, however... fun merely needs to be enabled. Unlocked. Made possible. People can then make it for themselves.

And in that, is a lesson. Fun is the raison d'etre; fun is the destination. And if entertainment occurs, all the better.

* * * * *

Other worlds were an inevitability.

Some worlds are quite young; others are in their golden age, and still others in the sunset of their days. Some will explode into futures more wondrous and unimagined than most would think. Which ones? It remains to be seen.

There will be a lot of fun, creating this new future. And yes, living in it too, as things mature everywhere. The only thing assuredly not fun is to never change, wither and die.

Not that any of this will be easy.

I do think the next generation will face intense difficulty, insofar as 'easy fun' will be a lot harder going forward. Both on the main grid and elsewhere.

But there's no going back. It's bigger than all of us. There's no way to put the XStreet genie or Linden Homes back in their respective bottles.

No way to return to the days when a few decent prims and a borrowed script could fairly reliably catapult Joe Average into respectable mercantile success. Or even Talented Joe, these days. It takes marketing savvy, business skills, and aggressive planning nowadays. Oh sure, there will always be a few longshot successes. But not for the masses. We are in a time of incredible shakeout, and it's painful. These are some of the terrible growing pains, I think, that Philip used to refer to on the way forward.

If I could pull a string and bring the past back... I would. Most of us would. But it's gone. It's a new day.

But history isn't over yet, however... and neither is fun.

And the ones who take chances and embrace the future, stand a better chance of having the fun.

Yumi Murakami

But that is the big problem, Desmond.. because if not everyone involved gets to have at least some fun.. then why SHOULD they virtualize?

Desmond Shang

I don't have any magic answers to that.

Perhaps a tale is in order, though. Once upon a time in the 1970's I used to play with electronics as a hobby. As a kid. I would get a kit, put it together, and it was pretty fun. Such things still exist, but at the end of the day, it's not possible to make the best cool things any more. Making the best electronic things became too hard without advanced expertise. Transistor radio's are one thing, but nobody is making an iphone from scratch. Nor would many people even consider trying to. Other aspects of it are interesting.

In the 1980's, it was fun again. I had a cheap Commodore 64, and I set about learning about it, and making my own fun. Good times. BBS communities on dialup sprang up ~ glorious fun! I remember the day I saw (on an Amiga 1000) a message that had hopped across dozens and dozens of links, from... Ireland. Wow! All the way to Southern California! But eventually, doing all the cool things required far more.

Enter the 1990's and the 1980's computers were all ancient junk; few die~hard hobbyists would even mess with them. But there was this new thing ~ the Web! And web forums!

Somewhere in that mix was an agonisingly slow~loading world known as ActiveWorlds. Wow! A 'world' on the internet! There wasn't much you could do with it really, but if you waited long enough you could eventually see a place where people had *built a city* online!

...I could carry on, but I think you can see the progression here. There's still a lot of "new" out there, waiting to be discovered.

And Yumi, as for the hard question you ask... I think that you may be one of the best, first people to identify the new wave of whateveritis, that next deep reason for fun, when it comes along.

Prokofy Neva

Desmond is really insufferable, truly. His instant homilies on my blog are really nauseating, truly.

When someone like him convinced that they are successful and others are failing all around get like this, you almost wish they would flop big. But I'm not the kind that wishes ill even on enemies.

Desmond Shang

Nor do I wish ill to you, Prok. May 2010 be a happy time for you!

You'll see me fail at plenty of stuff; I've already failed at a lot of things I've tried, especially in Second Life. It's just that on balance, the good outweighs the bad. Plenty would enjoy the schadenfreude if I failed big, I am sure, but hey... better to be *doing* something, and taking on opportunities, than watch the world pass on by.

Maybe someday virtual business and land barony will sour, and I'll end up Linden Homeless, wandering around with nothing but stories. But if that day comes, I shall know that I tried the very best I could.

Happy Holidays!

Fogwoman Gray

Desmond's success is more than homiles and business success. He has made a lot of friends (those are people who care about you even if you don't have a blog), which is a much better indicator of success than all the virtual real estate and money in the world.
Wishing you much financial success in the coming year.

Prokofy Neva

Fogwoman, I see you are as much of a pompous ass as Desmond. I think you'll find that this vast array of friends claimed by Desmond is less than meets the eye. Desmond is far, far more interested in financial success than I am, as his boasting of his new car and his rush to plant the flag in Blue Mars illustrate *chuckles*.

It's particularly misguided -- hilarious, really -- to portray me as a soul-less money-grabbing rent-seeking evil SL landlord, and Desmond as a jolly community leader. Er, have you compared our prices lol? I make no pretentions to being a community leader, but I've simply made a place where people have been fairly free to do what they like but without the burden of other people's encroachment (including the burden of maintaining an RP facade all the time), and I think that counts for a lot. I've made far too many sacrifices for it than are justified, the kind of sacrifices that bottom-line Desmond would never make. My tiny business is a fraction of Desmond's, and most rental businesses -- do you realize that there are quite a few people that have 100 or 200 or even 500 islands in SL they run successfully, and that I have...14? Hello?! And of these, more than two of those sims' full of 40 sites are free and open to the public and supported by a dozen friends who donate the tier, and many people who make financial donations. And I think that counts for something, too.

I'll tell you what a real friend is -- a person who cares about you *because* you have a blog and engages with you intellectually on it. (And my blog is no path of fame or glory either, go on virtualworlds.alltop.com and see that many other blogs have more traffic). I'm happy to have made a few real friends like that in SL through my blog that mean much more to me that the sort of role-playing sychophants that gather around Desmond. No doubt Desmond is an acquired taste, and there are those who genuinely have acquired that taste, but that doesn't mean it's the epitome of authenticity.

I do not count success as virtual real estate, profit, or reputation as a "community leader," but in being able to think deeply about many interesting things and compel others to think.

I guess you won't be included in that number.

Desmond Shang

>"I'll tell you what a real friend is -- a person who cares about you *because* you have a blog and engages with you intellectually on it."

Aww, Prok! How sweet of you to say!

Prokofy Neva

Barf.

*intellectually* I said.

Gwyneth Llewelyn

Mmh this could have been three different articles, but they are definitely well-blended together — probably the best I've read during the holiday season!

I guess that one could summarize to say that, from the perspective of a SL resident, the major problem of almost all other "virtual worlds" is simply that... they are not a "better" Second Life, although that's what we all expect it to be. And no matter if any of those virtual worlds actually have good ideas/concepts here and there — like your thorough explanation of what Raph has put in Metaplace, which I had completely missed; and, naturally, the relatively nice (nicer?) graphics on Blue Mars — ultimately they fail to address *all* the points that made SL the success that it actually is. They might address one or two points, but never all. One can only wonder why. Are the techie developers behind those virtual worlds so totally locked in their own worlds (pun intended) that they never go out and see what others — successful ones — are doing?

Avatar personalisation, for instance, is not merely a trifle — it's one of the pillars of a virtual identity. We grumble about so many issues in SL (like, for instance, that to look good you have to lag like crazy...), but the truth is that the only "other" virtual world that understood the "need to avaratise" is... IMVU (no wonder Anshe Chung invested in it!). Blue Mars just thinks it's irrelevant.

Sadly for us, SL just barely manages to address all those issues — and often does it badly. Nevertheless, I think it still shows what is important *for the residents* — as opposed to what is important for the developers. It's just not developed as fully as we would all wish.

I always remember the first time I saw the immensely impressive waterfall on Blue Mars. It was designed to be a "showcase" on the incredible detail and realism that BM users were supposed to expect from BM. While I managed to borrow a relatively powerful computer to play around in BM (which doesn't support anything but Windows) — one that easily gets 20-30 FPS in SL on Ultra settings with shadows on — I managed to see BM with, oh, 7-9 FPS, enough for getting a good taste of it. Except... on the waterfall, where half a frame per second or so were not enough to navigate around properly. Oh yes, the waterfall is impressive, no question about that. And graphics performance will sooner or later improve, I'm sure of it.

But then, back in SL, I just realised that anyone can buy a "waterfall building package" for a handful of L$, and assemble it by themselves. They're just blobby sculpties with some good textures. They are assembled like Lego pieces, so you can be very creative when placing them. There are lots of varieties and choices — even from the pre-sculpty days. And guess what? The end result looks not like Blue Mars, but close enough to be reasonably interesting. Add a few Windlight settings, turn your graphics to Ultra, turn shadows on, and then take a snapshot; nobody will know the difference from Blue Mars. But it took a regular resident — not an expert content creator — to assemble and put in place, and tweak it to their heart's content.

While the waterfall in BM took possibly a handful of developers with PhDs and salaries of five figures to create in, what, a month? Two months? I have no idea. And you can't even interact with it.

I know this is probably not one good reason to switch over to Blue Mars. After all, perhaps I would have had the same thoughts about SL if I had joined a year earlier than I did... when it was barely come out of beta. But with merely 12,000 users and a hundred sims or so, SL showed potential. You had an idea of what could be done there, even if not all uses could possibly have been figured out. While the residents' creativity has by far outpaced the ability of LL's developers to introduce new features, at least you have an idea on what you can achieve — and I, for myself, always had that feeling on the past 5 years. While no other virtual world has given me the same feeling.

I guess that my point is that Blue Mars is not "special". There is really nothing in the platform that couldn't be created by any team of developers. There is no innovation. There is just... technology. In a sense, Blue Mars is just the blockbuster of virtual worlds: a lot of special effects, lots of promise, but no soul. Perhaps when it gets a few hundreds of thousands of people contributing with free content there, things might change. In any case, it'll be hard to compete with 3 billion items :) ... and I guess that's what will always be missed on any Brand New Virtual World, no matter which one will (eventually) replace Second Life.

I personally just hope that someone starts hammering some good sense in LL's stubborn heads and make them open their eyes :) Or at least force them to listen to what the residents are saying...

Yumi Murakami

Gwyneth, SL was special back then because it was the new thing and the pioneer.

The developers of BM have probably realised that they don't have that option, and so they have to compete with SL - as it is *right now* - rather than being able to work their way up.

Maybe anyone can build a waterfall from building kit in SL, but what you should compare is how hard it was to create the kit - and in SL that waterfall building kit probably took *years* to make, because it took years for people to learn and share the methods and tricks needed to build those things in SL.

Desmond Shang

I know the guy that did the Blue Mars waterfall. Seriously, it's not terribly difficult nor did it take a long time to make.

While there isn't a waterfall in it, check out my Pavonis level. One day's work. *All* of it. Did it myself.

Could I add a waterfall like on the Taki level? Yeah. 20 minutes, maybe.

* * * * *

It's an old classic to say "this will never work" on a forum or blog or something, thus causing people to carefully and painstakingly spoonfeed information about how to do... whatever it is that wasn't supposed to work.

In this case, I'll just say: go see for yourself. It's not difficult stuff. How hard is setting out prims that shoot particles? It's about that "difficult." Just different.

And this is so typical ~ people commenting without doing any solid research.

I'm sure if the Blue Mars social mechanisms had been rolled out ahead of the graphics, people would be screaming "where are the graphics!? Don't you know you need graphics!?"

And yeah, sure, everyone knows all this stuff. It's not like anyone is investing millions only to say: "gee, I should have spent twenty minutes thinking about the social tools and interactivity ~ good thing that blogger brought it up or it would have completely eluded me!"

It's a new platform. Takes guts and vision, research and initiative to see what others don't see yet.

It was the same with SL.

The longer that disinformation and nonsense hangs about, the more visionary the few who did their homework will seem, when the platform does mature. Of course, there will be cries of unfairness, then.

World's a big place, opportunities abound! Embrace it, dig in and make the most of it :)

People thought I was stone cold crazy or stupid for planning a non~gambling, non~sexual, antiquated Caledon in SL back in 2005. I was constantly assured of its imminent failure, or its imminent crushing downfall at the hands of 'cool kid' competition. But stupid me, I just didn't listen. O foolish, foolish Desmond!

I wish I had saved some of that commentary; if I had, I would put it up on the walls of the Guvnah's Mansion in Victoria City now.

Yumi Murakami

Well, I guess it doesn't count as difficult if you don't include getting approval to develop for the BM grid..

Prokofy Neva

Desmond is utterly full of shit here -- the tell-tale sign is this claim that anyone criticizing Blue Mars "hasn't done their reasearch".

Er, what's to research, big guy?!

You can't turn around or move easily -- check. That is a fact.

You can't run up the "mountain" put as a stage set behind Caledon -- check. That is a fact.

You can't put out stuff yourself -- can't even buy stuff in the empty stores. THAT I wouldn't care about, it may come later, but I don't see that an interactive user-to-user economy is even planned (or physically possible).

I don't care if it is easy to make a waterfall in 20 minutes. The point is, you cannot make it with inworld tools, or buy it in an inworld store. You can do it ONLY if you register as a developer and work from behind the scenes, offworld. And that is "easy" to do like...scripting in SL is "easy" to do, too. Yes, if you study it, have some skills going into it, put time into it.

What's absurb about what Desmond is saying is that this world has "potential" and yet only he is gutsy, innovative, savvy, blah blah enough to see it, and no one else is. You do have to wonder why the other people even more grabby and greedy and innovative than Desmond, like Adam or Anshe or a hundred others, aren't there.

And I think the key to it is this: the makers of Blue Mars found him and flattered him. Flattery works on Desmond -- and he uses it on other people to get them to develop for free. Desmond has to justify his investment, and that's why he keeps flogging it like a fanboy, without any critical faculties working at all.

I definitely don't want to get into that position. I remember I took SL very slow and built up my business over time. And -- I'm not a "developer" and a savvy business person like those keen to show off. In fact, I'm a painfully slow learner, because business is not my forte.

I was not struck by any beauty in Blue Mars because the retardedness of my avatar and his inability to move easily simply sucked out all the fun and beauty that might be there. And these were not overcome in about 3 tries of various log-ons. I don't even feel like going back and struggling again, to be honest, which gives me insight into how a lot of people feel about SL.

Desmond Shang

That was one of the most disinformation~packed posts you've worked up in a while, Prok! Stunning, actually.

Ah, I do trust that even you would find your arrow keys sooner or later, or... maybe not. Pretty much anything outside of the Agni grid mainland is well outside your comfort zone. And that's okay. You can stay there. I wish you well!

And no, I don't intend to smooth out every slope to the point you can climb it, Prok. I don't have latches on the cupboards or baby gates, either. Some things can't be climbed, and if you had discovered my teleporter to the top of a mountain range, then yes, *gasp*... you might have Fallen! Without being able to get up! Oh no... :)

Prok's also strangely focused on me ~ there *are* lots of familiar names there already. Sure, I'm an early bird, but both my engineering and gaming background came in handy with regard to getting Caledonia established quickly. Even so, Whyroc and his crew was even faster. Watch dozens of other regions flood in shortly. I know a lot of the owners.

* * * * *

Yumi, there's no approval process to become a developer. Sign up and you get an activation email within seconds.

For any would~be designer willing to take two steps out of their comfort zone, this is an incredible new opportunity to start in a young world.

Prokofy Neva

Glad Desmond has confirmed that this is not a mountain you can climb, but a stage set.

Desmond even tracked down Adric Antfarm's goofy little-read blog to respond to a perfectly accurate report that Adric wrote about all of Caledon's stores being EMPTY in Blue Mars. Because they *are*. Desmond showed up to bluster for half a page there, too, basically saying "They're empty, yes, because I want to impress you all with being an eager-beaver first mover and shaker in this world but I'm not so unselfish as to actually spend money until I get more free labour in here."

Honestly, it is too funny to watch!

Of course there's an approval process to be a developer. You can "just sign up" if you are an idiot who doesn't grasp that the system requires that you actually have ability to create things in 3-D tools outside the world. Desmond seems to determinate to mispresent things in the same way that the company floggers are misleading people and making it seem like "it's open to anyone" but that's ridiculous. It's open to those *who have the requisite skills to make content*. That is not being being "open". It's also clear that Desmond got the pioneer's special as BM FIC.

I've got a lot of tolerance for wonky virtual worlds. I spent ages on the Sims, and I spent many hours in Metaplace, probably 10 times more than Desmond did. I just don't have the burning need to be the first cool kid the way Desmond does, if anything, I find myself rather repulsed by a world that has him so in-your-face in it. And that's something that should give the makers of BM pause -- that they may have overplayed their hand there.

I don't know who Whyroc is, I'm out of date I guess, but bully for him if he's in faster than Desmond, even! I can see everybody has found a new *game* lol.

The thought that Second Life might be emptying out with some of the more arrogant blowhards is faintly pleasing, but then inworld, I don't pay much attention to them. If Desmond can take Hypatia Callisto and keep her busy and out of the Concierge List chat for whole hours at a time, I'd be happy to put some bluemars dinar in his tip jar just for that...

whyroc

It's a good article actually! I too have followed the rise and fall of Metaplace with interest.

Who's whyroc? It maybe was me who made your sculpty waterfall kit in SL (or maybe someone stole it and sold it to you;). I am also a Blue mars City dev for Gridrock City. So? what? you ask? Well its fun, I like it and I think others will too.

In our city we aren't satisfied with a static movie set kind of world either, and although under construction have started to build our Sci Fi Role playing framework into the city. If Blue Mars can find a niche within a year of falling close to IMVU then it would be a success in my mind!

We are committed to using free tools for BM development and have opened up a guilds program where our members can learn how to make stuff.. its challenging but easier than sculpties I would say. (to get good results)

So make of it what you will, we are a small tight and agile team having so much 'fun' on the Blue Mars platform. Nuff said!

-w

Simon Newstead

Nice article, enjoyed the leisurely read over the weekend. Although I missed point number 9 :)

Agree with your recommendations about having an avatar, letting them experiment in "private" (not many like getting changed in public) etc

The bit about creation, I think its about usability and interface, if you can present it in a simple way and not mixed up with your core features like chat/interaction with scene it can work (we get a lot of users jump in and make nice things on their first visit, although we place creation on its own page/menu)

On the movement part, that's tricky because different people have different expectations. I used the arrow keys for example on MP and ended up walking in strange zig zags to get where I wanted to go... didn't figure out the single click path finding until much later.. and IMVU has done really well without any movement at all =_=

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