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« Electronic Frontier Foundation's Double Standards | Main | What's Wrong With Cyberspace »

April 04, 2010

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John Perry Barlow

Wordy, but good. You're entertaining when you get going like this.

cube inada

damn....

"I'd buy that for a Dollar"
- Robocop 1987

Viajero Pugilist

Entertaining, and there are some points worth debating, but ruined as almost always by an aggessive, unrelenting, and oblivious dickishness.

She may have no pelotas, but she swings a massive strap-on. In arguing with Prokofy, be warned: she's nasty and sticky.

Steve Rogers

Yeah, those guys and their views are old and getting less relevant. But watch yourself, it happens to us all.

cube inada

"The dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, DeToqueville, and Brandeis "

"Yeah, those guys and their views are old and getting less relevant. But watch yourself, it happens to us all."

Well. Lets HOPE not. Or better yet, lets NOT let "shiny-techy" virtuality make it so.

Darien Caldwell

"Goddamn, it's my creation. It's my intellectual property. It's *mine*. It's mine!"

This is the piss poor attitude so many have these days, which is why the world is the way it is. This is the attitude that has led to infinitely long Copyright, Bogus Patents, lawsuits flinging around with out merit, and all of the other ills of society.

There was a time, when people didn't cling so desperately to their ideas and creations, but rather were open to sharing them for not only their enrichment, but the enrichment of society and mankind.

The fact we are at an age where people take offense to having someone even *look upon* their idea is really a testament to how far society has sunk. Very, very, sad.

cube inada

"Elsworth" Caldwell...;)

a man with a "fountain" of wisdom.

c3

Rex Cronon

There are some creators that might not have a problem if some people copy(quite a few call it stealing) their work. A smaller number of creators might not have a problem even when others make money with the copied/stolen work. But I think you will find very few creators that wouldn't say enough is enough, when their work is not only copied/stolen, sold, but the thieves are also claiming to be the ones that created it:)
p.s.
Last time I checked appropriating the ideas of others as your own without giving credit is called plagiarism.

cube inada

no. today its a web2.0 business model.

Prokofy Neva

One of the main lies that geeks tells about all this is that they claim, each time you have this discussion, that there has to be a way for those who want to give away their content to easily share. They always speak as if they are some sort of beleaguered and discriminated against minority, unable to share because evil monstrous web service providers don't make this possible...or something.

It's a total sham because in fact, there isn't the social demand for this that they imagine *at all*. Look at my poll, on this page about the use of Creative Commons, if you want to see the truth -- that quite a few people don't use it, don't find it useful, and don't want it. If some do, it's in part because they've been peer-pressured into it, and no other alternative is provided.

Worse, the geeks like about this "inability" to share, as if you need...a special license or permission system in a world where people are ostensibly "confused" about whether they "can" copy -- when in fact droves of them copy as the default, and the real problem is to do the opposite -- get them to not copy, and pay for what they consume.

So you have this lobby, not representative of anything, inserting itself in a whiney, victimized, entitled way every time, as if they "can't" share and as if "the tools don't let them" or some utter arrant bullshit. Nothing on earth stops them from writing on their website "swipe everything" without a CC license, or "swipe everything and give me credit" if that's what they want -- but they don't.

THAT they don't is *proven by Second Life*. When Lessig and Liana Linden, who is busy fucking up search now so it can be used to pursue this agenda, and Hamlet who is always flogging this shit as well, tried to push this CC license stuff, which is abuot making people think they need a license to claim copyright when they don't (it's inherent) which isn't about respecting copyright, but in fact *undermining it* by making it seem as if it needs special dispensation -- they found there were no takers. No traffic. No nothing. Everybody, even opensource geeks, gave it a pass because they were too busy selling weapons and avatars if they were geeks, and gadgets and vehicles if they were geeks, and lots of other stuff if they were designers FOR MONEY and WITH DRM.

THAT is the story of SL, and Mitch Kapor must HATE it. He must LOATHE the fact that in a free environment, people don't choose his ideological bullshit but chose actually to get paid for their work (*cough* like he did? At Lotus? Remember?)

It's really a shocking exposure of this hippie bullshit, and one that should be searing into everyone's consciousness, but they cover it up, they lie about it, they pretend it didn't happen, and the interop group still warbles on about inserting CC into the viewer, and the Lindens STILL talk about putting CC into Xstreet, although there is ZERO social demand for it.

cube inada

The new screenshot machine policy / and its interchange with the TOS

IS a defacto CC license forced on all to OPT OUT from in SL...

to bad its the most dmaging license form for creatives
one that allows their works into others commercial usage..

so who is gonna use it.. not geeks like darien, he see no value in it

but other geeks like Mark Z and SergiB, they see LOTS of value in your cat photos, and bad family vacation shots...

all content now in SL has been coopted to the CC meme...they did it.. they just hid it in a "gift" of rights that all users already had....

wizard of oz folks.... ignore the man behind the curtain

Darien Caldwell

"There are some creators that might not have a problem if some people copy(quite a few call it stealing) their work. A smaller number of creators might not have a problem even when others make money with the copied/stolen work. But I think you will find very few creators that wouldn't say enough is enough, when their work is not only copied/stolen, sold, but the thieves are also claiming to be the ones that created it:)"

100% agreed. But where people seem to be de-railing is, we aren't talking about stealing anything, we are talking about taking a screenshot of it. Screenshot != Theft.

melponeme_k

Darien, I understand what you mean. And I once thought the same.

But look at it in this way. We are allowed to use the screenshot key in Blizzard's World of Warcraft. For our own amusement, for souvenirs and to show how cool their world can be. But none of us would think to sell those screenshots because the IP isn't ours. And Blizzard would rightfully sue anyone who would attempt it.

Second Life once was an affordable way for visual artists to make their own worlds like Blizzard. Many of them don't mind our screenshots. However, like Blizzard, they can rightfully sue anyone selling screenshots of their work. Its their IP.

What LL is attempting to do is disconnect them from their property rights and tell everyone that it is okay to scrape their works. And that is wrong. And because of this, I have stopped taking screenshots because the TOS is not protecting them. They are attempting a hijacking and hiding behind me to do it. Just some bozo who likes to take travel shots, they'll let me and everyone else like me to take the heat. While they can profit off of work they didn't pay for properly.

cube inada

thank you mel.
BTW- sadly the graphic artists guild replied to me today in a way that suggests they fear the EFF.
and have given up speaking out against those who as they wrote about the "EFF - who want to change the copyright laws"

Next step time...:)

cube inada

BTW-
i "wonder" where the so called "thought leaders" of the SL arts are in the last few days...

Those who keep "telling us" they are leaders seem to have gone quiet.

Where are the DW's, the BT's, the KB's etc who all kept praising the LL kingdom as a "heaven" for design /business and the arts?

BTW--- this show looks like a imagecapture/resellers dream....

http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2010/04/virtual-art-at-u-mass.html

click click...bank bank.

Anti Vigilante

Whine much? Narcisist.

The idea that I can play some song in my own space but cannot pass it on to someone is a huge infringement on my rights. Your creation isn't worth anything to me unless I can do something with it, whether it is to view it or modify it or throw it in a river.

What I want to DO with it is what gives it value so that a natural transaction can be said to have taken place.

Copyright and patents have created an imaginary world that you take for granted. That's your problem not mine.

I choose to communicate with works of art. The work of art is the medium not the canvas. Communication comes about the entanglement and unraveling of semantic content. Therefore the modification is the message not the work of art.

Deal with it.

Anti Vigilante

I can travel in the real world and take pictures, but I can't travel through a 2D projection of a 3D environment and take screenshots.

F'in dinosaurs.

Prokofy Neva

Oh, stop being an asshole. Oh, and put up a Second Life or Real Life name here or you can't post, those are my rules, tie your snotty statements to a real reputation somewhere, or move on.

The idea that my song is worthless unless you get to steal it is one of those breath-takingly entitlement happy infantile narcissisms of this age.

If you value my song, you can pay for it. Other people who bring it before you through records or tapes or even the Internet have expenses and costs and they need to recoup them -- they may do this through annoying ads you bat out of the way, but that model just isn't sufficient. Somebody has to pay somewhere! Or it all falls down.

The idea that you get to vandalize a work of art rather than accept its intrinsic value and accept it as it is belongs to an age of violent and coercive collectivism, such horrendous collectivism online that people don't even perceive it as vandalism anymore, but perceive it as "a right" to collectivize everything. The measure of disgust one has with this is enormous, but it's too late for a lot of people even to sense the issue.

The imaginary world being taken for granted is your Internet collective farm where, as I often say, "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us."

Oh dear. And more witless Chomskian Derrida frou-frou. The medium isn't the message or the massage but just a mess lol.

Deal with it? Hardly. Fuck you. You're a barbarian.

The notion that you "can't take screenshots" isn't supported by either this blog post of mine or the Linden TOS. It specifically says that on the Mainland, you can. On public place-equivalents, of course you can. And it would be pretty hard to argue in court that you couldn't in a store on an island. There is a notion of privacy and there is a notion of intellectual property that Second Life supports (unlike your collectivized rapacious Internet).

The dinosaurs of the Internet are a bit long in passing but they will pass, yes. Their name is "information wants to be free" and "copyleftism" and "California Business Model".

Anti Vigilante

The idea that a piece is simply something I listen to is the most moronic statement of the century. I download and delete works all the time. I won't keep what I have no interest in modifying. I don't collect media. I use media. And once it's done, I couldn't care less what people do to it. It's not a god damn pet.

As for my username, you'll find I use it all over. I'm that guy. Not to be confused with a band by the same name. I already settled on it by the time I found them. And I have over 9000 accounts with the name. I'm not gonna go change them all.

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