What Linden Erases; What Desmond Won't Say

There's a thread up at the official forums discussing the Woodbury demise (catch it before it's utterly nuked), and as per usual, not only are the Woodbury apologists active, but the various liberal fence-sitters and "no guilt by association" accountability-shirkers are showing up in spades. One of my posts there has been removed, curiously, although if it was deemed in violation of the rule that you can't discuss individuals and groups negatively, the entire thread, which does that, containing numerous individual and group assessments, is still standing, so it makes no sense. If you can't start a thread to negatively discuss a group (if that is the rule -- it is never clear) then the thread stands, everyone is taking shots pro or con, but only my rather negative assessment based on field experience is deleted (see below) -- or maybe it's just about ING having infiltrated the new mods to his side -- he is likely the one who AR'd this post.

One side story on this entire Woodbury affair is the sordid way in which Desmond has behaved. All kinds of people are stepping up and calling Woodbury on their bullshit, including people whose own bullshit needs to be called, people like Lucifer and Siggy Romulus. Lum Lumley has, as usual, remained a tower of impeccable MMORPG game-god strength in refusing to buy the prevarications and dissemblings of these role-players, whose shtick he got wise to years ago, a thousand games ago (it's too bad Lum, when he stands up virtuously like this, always has to continue to buy his street cred by bashing me at the same time and calling me a crazy cat lady, etc. and claiming that I can't understand the difference between real communism and these miscreants. Sigh).

I'm trying to get to the bottom of the Caledon story here, which is hard to do because the Lindens censor truthful discussions and because people don't tell the truth -- and because Desmond likes to keep Caledon out of the papers as much as possible, it's bad for business.

It looks like what came out in these official forums comments is that Woodbury began griefing Caledon after Carl resigned from NCI and Desmond broke with Imnotgoing Sideways (ING). That's interesting, because that suggests that ING isn't the innocent he portrays to be, not that we've ever believed in his innocence, and that he might be capable of savaging Caledon by proxy, letting it be known that Caledon "needed" to be griefed.

It's funny how in the skewed and distorted world of the Linden forums, the gang there doesn't realize that what happened at NCI was this:

1. ING was banned from my land three times each time for attempting to attend meetings when Woodbury was griefing them and demanding "no guilt by association" status. I don't fall for that line with Woodbury, of course, having seen hundreds of them grief me and my events for 4 years. In his case, if he were banned once because he was with this group, for him to deliberately come back and try to attend other events in other places is a form of provocation -- griefing all its own. Let's say someone was accidently caught up in Woodbury merely to have a sandbox. After being banned once while appearing with this group, then twice, you would think they'd get it. Indeed, sending this kind of smirking IM knows that they know *exactly* what they are doing:

Imnotgoing Sideways: That was brief... Sorries. (T_T)

Ugh.

I banned ING, who was an NCI volunteer, from all the NCI properties they were renting from me in Ross and Maryport. Carl conceded these bans, because he himself had been at the Dam and seen the attacks and respected my decision. But he didn't have a rule that he should not have NCI workers who were also in Woodbury. I urged him to make such a rule. I said that because I knew that the way such groups work, he would eventually find NCI would be infiltrated by them and they would overthrow the group and hollow it out and use it for their own purposes to gain credibility and cover for their actions. Watch that space.

As the griefing of me continued, Carl eventually reached a decision on his own for his own reasons to make a rule that no one who was in a griefing group could work at NCI. At a time when the Lindens were deciding to make a group of blessed newbie helpers, it seemed prudent. So he issued the instructions that no one who remained in a griefing group could expect to remain in NCI.

As "no guilt by association" liberals, some of the leadership of NCI was aghast. They either didn't know about Woodbury, or they knew and didn't care, seeing it merely as a problem of Prokofy and a few furries and some turf war. They refused to set rules about group membership, refused to get behind their crippling "no guilt" meme into an actual honest discussion of what affiliation means and what it meant for their own reputation and their own functioning in this case. They argued about it internally, but it split the group.

Several NCI leaders, feeling very virtuous and acting as if they role-playing in a virtual world something tantamount to pleading the fifth on a HUAC replay, said they were resigning from the group. Tateru Nino, who naturally took the pro-Woodbury side as an ardent technocommunist, assumed interrim leadership.

Rather than face a split in NCI and endless roiling and debilitation of the group, Carl himself resigned.

There is no question that Imnotgoing forced a split in this group, brought Carl down, and would have rather seen the destruction of this group rather than leave Woodbury. That's how sinister this conspiracy is, and how narcissistic and dysfunctional ING is.

The fact that NCI survived after this split doesn't negate what I'm saying: that Imnotgoing, as part of the Woodbury conspiracy, was happy to destroy a good man and wreck a group rather than step down himself. The Bolsheviks often accused others of being "wreckers and splitters"; it's what they were themselves.

Of course, all sorts of other things are said about all this at the same time. Carl said he'd been there for a long time and it was time to move on and let other people assume the huge burden of running a huge volunteer group. Other things needed to be reorganized in NCI and the group renovated anyway. Other leaders came forward and the group continued with its mission. The malicious little BDSM child remains in it, gleefully gloating and of course making the reputation of NCI questionable because he remained in the Woodbury group and remained with the BDSM child get-up helping newbies, and that's awful.

Meanwhile, Carl moved to help Desmond's newbie operation in Caledon. There, cooperation with NCI had originally been close because Carl as head of NCI had helped Caledon previously. So now came the tricky matter -- would they still have NCI there? Would ING still be allowed there as he could expect to be allowed on any NCI station as a volunteer?

And Carl and Desmond both ruled "no". They came to their own conclusions on ING. That's something ING has fought mightily and picked and picked away at because the one thing he desperately wants to resist is being caught out in his lies. He works overtime to maintain all his lies, alts, scams, subterfuges and wants to make sure they don't break down, and therefore keeps battering at liberals who begin to suspect and who might reach for "guilt by association" not as an illiberalism, but as a proper response when you have a group conspiracy to commit TOS offenses and when you begin to suspect and then confirm that ING is lying.

They just said "no" because they didn't want Woodbury, didn't want ING and that's it.

So now it's interesting to see on the historical record what happens next.

Did Caledon then begin to suffer griefing from Woodbury that it had never suffered before? Because Desmond used to constantly brag that he had one-off griefers now and then but by and large, Caledon was spared the Woodbury/w-hood sort of griefing, unlike Ravenglass and the furry sims. Interesting, that. Here's these brave crusaders against Internet bourgeoisie, attempting to, um, make us laugh at ourselves and poke fun at capitalist excesses and um, the Bush Administration and stuff. But what they actually do is attack the working-class neighbourhoods of Ravenglass, on the mainland, which are the 512s and 1024s and 2048s in little cottages, not the huge palaces and steampunk mansions of affluent, content-rich Caledon. They attack furries who are not wealthy either, but tend to be working or lower middle class living in the forest, not in huge mansions or elaborate content sims. So what's up with that, eh?

Yet from various anecdotal accounts of griefing of Caledonians who have documented this griefing and spoken about it even when Desmond has opted to be utterly silent about it (omerta) , it seems that after ING was PNG'd from Caledon's newbie program , the griefing retaliation started. I bet I will hear some denials about that. But that's what I'm seeing.

In that case, it would be circumstantial, but compelling evidence to suggest once again that ING is in on the conspiracy, which, of course, we know, because he clusters with them constantly, most notably on the woodbury.su site. I stopped by and saw in the shoutbox a saying that was like this: "Immy: good riddance, thugs". That sounded like Immy, the nickname ING often uses and the name by which he is often referred to, conceding that yes, there were thugs in the Woodbury group, and he was attempting to in fact disassociate "all the wonderful people and all those creative buildings" from the "few bad eggs". I marvelled at that sudden candour in a shoutbox, but figured it was a slip when "Immy" was figuring the shoutbox text wouldn't be noticed as it disappears. I copied it and commented on it.

He fiercely went to work trying to track it down and deny it, as his cover involving all his subterfuges and scams was threatened. He denied he had written it. He started saying people had used his name to write it. He puts a different handle on chat sometimes like Twitter which is "Frigginimmy" or something, etc. etc. But I and others. It was then removed.

ING has spun his role mightily in the Sluniverse.com thread, where Desmond, as I mentioned, has come out looking rather icky as usual.

Instead of conceding what he surely knows, that this is a griefing conspiracy, he is hedging and circumspect, always trying to politick his way out of ever seeming to be an enemy of any griefing group lest they target him. The smug burgher at work.

Next, when the issue is raised as whether Emerald sunk Woodbury, which would play up an angle that both shows Emerald as nefarious using unlawful meethods, and would show Woodbury as victim, but injured-not-innocent, Desmond carefully plays his cards again.

He decides to flatter and jolly up the new Emerald boss on the block, Fractured ModularSystems (Fractured Crystal). He goofs around with him, writing a science fiction scenario, saying gosh, Emerald couldn't be guilty of doing this because what would be their benefit to drop the dime on Woodbury with a rogue viewer, it's not like they get money out of it, call girls, or oil rigs drilling for prims now, do they, har har har.

Sigh. The benefits for malign groups in SL don't always have to be money or call girls or blow or oil rigs. It can merely be power over other people. Merely! It can be trading favours in the elaborate favour-bank system of the FIC.

Fractured narf-narfs with him, and these two geek technocommunists, who feign to be capitalists when it suits them, continue the con.

From Linden Lab:

Hello,

You have received this email because the content you posted below has been rejected by our moderators.

Re: Woodbury University GONE!!! (Does anyone care?)

posted Apr 21, 2010 3:22 PM

---

Imnotgoingsideways is Notgoinganywhere with these lies and prevarications and disinformation campaigns.

She was properly banned on multiple occasions for accompanying griefing raids of Woodbury/PN griefers and attempting event disruption. Even after her first ban, she persisted in stalking and harassing and coming to events that were horribly griefed by her little friends and pretending that she was separate from them. One time one might invoke some silly "guilt by association" meme -- when she comes three times deliberately and they grief and crash the sim, then it's no accident, comrade, and she is banned.

She furthermore pursued her stalking and harassment landing in Ross repeatedly on Linden land, as they all do, seeing it as a safe haven to pursue their antics from untouched. But that's catching up to them, surely.

Woodbury doesn't contain the most creative and intelligent people; it's a gaggle of banal medicore griefers whose endless and repetitive jackboot in the face is their version of "art". This is not some witty SL version of Saturday Night Live or Jon Stewart, these are just banal uninteresting griefers.

Detailed replicas of Soviet military uniforms and harassment of people with communist symbols is no more "glamorous" or "creative" than doing the same thing with Nazi insignia. It's merely in our politically-correct society and in the absence of any Nuremberg for Stalinism, whch persists today, the equivalency is difficult to see.

If these griefers wanted to pursue their lovely life of um, parody, they could be doing it on their own sims without harassing and griefing others and inciting hatred. Parking a "Soviet Woodbury" sim next to an "Estonia" and announcing maliciously and gleefully that they have "annexed" it again really has no place in SL, as it incites hate and makes light of the massacre of thousands and the oppression of a million people for decades. It's wrong. The Lindens likely didn't act for that reason, but the documented sim crashing, viewer crashing with TPVs, etc. is all in the public record.

This self-righteous and self-referential word-salading and obnoxious and grinning hyperbole is merely another aspect of the griefing. By self-righteous indignation, ringing every PC chime they can figure out, these miscreants hope they can cover their crimes. They can't.

These people had not one chance, not two, but multiple chances in SL after their sims were first seized for cause due to their violation of the TOS in 2007.

There isn't any "chill" that has hit the grid. Had these people *really* been about art, creativity, and education and "experimental media classes" they'd be on their sims, sandboxing happily. But that's not what they were about. They constantly bullied and harassed others, with serious, egregious griefing including racism, sexual harassment, sim crashing, viewer crashing and loss of business due to tenants fleeing anywhere near them. They made deliberate grief purchases of mainland and deliberate bases to launch endless griefing operations. Everyone who has tuned in for even five minutes to how this group operates realizes this, and realizes their other main form of griefing is to get the leftist blogosphere and leftist academic to try to tell their "narrative" of "transgressiveness" as well. It's all bilge.

Your right to engage in the implementation of your rights ends when it infringes on another's right to implement the same right. People who endlessly heckle and harass and troll and grief and crash sims are depriving others of *their* freedom of speech. Anyone who has been to my weekly meetings at the Sutherland Dam realizes how this works.

There's nothing "old world" or "luddite" or "old media" about the exposure of this group to be a very old-fashioned form of thuggery itself. Just because we are online does not mean we are exempt from civilizational norms.

Comments

[Brinda Allen]

Ah you were right Prok...I got to the forum too late to comment.
RE: WU banned, Should anyone care?
***
Yes, I care for a couple of reasons.
***
In no particular order:

My enjoyment of public discussion meetings has been affected by griefing and viewer crashing. Was it done by an affliliate of WU?...No idea.
I am however, no great believer in constant coincidence, and it's odd that out of 30,000 (est) regions, avatars associated with a known grief contingent were always in attendence when the griefing started.

I'm saddened that such juvenile behavior steals the chance we all have to create something in Secondlife that seems so difficult to create in real life.
{My god isn't there enough hate and discontent already?}

More about juvenile behaviour...
If there might be a demographic expected to be less than accepting of alternative life styles, it would be expected to be those of us up in our years.
(At 68, I sure as heck qualify!)
I have never been more warmly greeted or had a better time at any public location than I receive when I visit Luskwood. Luskwood is a place where I often take nooblets to meet the older members of Secondlife, my last visit saw ten avatars a lot older than I, some over twice as old.
Oh, and no one was staring at my pixel breasts either...that's more than I can say for a nameless member of Secondlife that came to the dam one eve.
{Curious about name? IM me, he's a former Mentor and no nooblet}

It's not a good thing that people lose public access to the friends they choose to associate with, whether or not those would be my choice of friends.

Lastly...there is no excuse for all this. Does anyone really believe Prokofy will leave Secondlife? (If you do...you probaly have imaginary friends as well)

[Velvet Bikcin]

You do know the term "word salad" is a perjorative term for a serious neurological disorder, "Wernicke’s aphasia".

Not to take away from your arguement, but you may want to reconsider lumping in people who are ill, with people who are malicious.

[Prokofy Neva]

Yeah. I probably read the phrase "word salad" before you were born, in the books by R.D. Lang, a 1960s pioneer of various theories which often amounted to declaring the mentally ill sane to serve an extreme anarchist political agenda.

Let me tell you this, sister. If you had to live and take care of mentally ill people in our society today *yourself*, you might have a less romantic notion of them and be less self-righteous in demanding special pleadings for words that describe their behaviour not to be applied to other dysfunctional and psychotic behaviour in society, by the otherwise seeming sane.

I don't suffer from these political correct constraints that you do.

Word salad is not just a neurological disorder; it's a spiritual disorder. It was Peter Ludlow who first began to use this term in my recollection to describe the nonsense talk and free association and deniable dissembling that w-hat and such engage in. He himself word-salads as well, spouting nonsense about narratives and transgressive behaviour.

What I've found with word salad, in both the mentally ill and the seemingly normal, that it can be used to deliberately annoy even by the mentally ill who themselves sometimes helplessly suffer from it, and it can be used by the seeming sane to be annoying as well. Peter Ludlow has written about "word-salad warfare". Noam Chomsky famously said word salad was like the sentence "Colourless green ideas sleep furiously." Indeed they do, and he should know.

I'm going to go on using the phrase word-salad, even if it doesn't fit your politically book, and doesn't fit the classic definition either ("bullshit" or "lies" might fit more appropriately).

[AnnOtooleInSL]

You can't take people to task by name on LL's forum. It is such a mine field over there that I no longer see much point in posting at all. I cracked an obvious joke (that was obviously not directed at anyone specific) once and it was removed.

So why even bother with that place?

[Desmond Shang]

Prok, you really have a problem when I don't stand up for you, don't you?

Quite frankly, the only downside I see of the Woodbury ban is all your victory dancing.

I've already disassociated with NCI over Woodbury membership, what more do I have to do? Make a deck of cards out of pictures of their leadership, and stick them on a dartboard or something? Oh please. Do I need to issue a press release regarding "what I think about Woodbury" every two weeks? It should be *painfully* obvious what I think by now to *anyone* but you, Prok.

They just got permabanned. Do I need to do a victory dance like you, or waste words? There's nothing more I need to say. Who is left that I need to convince about anything?

And do I need to kick Woodbury people in the ribs while down, to stay 'in' with the cool kids? Spit in their faces? Even with regard to people I can't stand, that's just too far. They are permabanned; we've *all* been over this whole thing for thousands of pages before... what more do you want?

They got severely punished, but it's not enough for you?

Yeah, I think Woodbury very likely got what they deserved, but classy people just don't victory dance.

You won this round, Prok, probably inadvertently but this is clearly a major victory for you especially. Let it go at that, and not turn this into Island of the Lord of the Flies, or the Stanford Prison Experiment.

I'm not about to decry jackboots stomping around, only to pull on a pair myself.

* * * * *

Griefing. I've heard reports that we've been griefed by Woodbury now and again, but I've not personally seen it. If I had, I would say so without hesitation.

It's possible I suppose, but realise that when all this NCI/Woodbury nonsense came to a head last summer, I was deeply involved in the first phases of a (then nonpublic) project to launch on another platform. Burning some serious midnight oil with a team of about 50 other Caledon residents, who amazingly kept perfectly quiet about it for seven solid months. Yes, as amazing as it sounds, I've had bigger fish to fry than all this.

So most of what I know about any griefing is from resident reports. How credible are these reports? I'd have to do some poking around to find out.

I don't think anyone is lying in order to heap more blame on Woodbury, but it would probably be worth asking the question "did you see who did it yourself" and so forth to witnesses, to ascertain the truth. We get a lot of random, juvenile griefing over school holidays, for instance, not really associated with anything. And if it was Woodbury members? I'm not sure what I would have done differently. It's not like their leadership visited Caledon in the first place, so even banning their officers would have gone profoundly... unnoticed.

There was at least one case (or cases) that I suspect was related to Woodbury, but never had proof. This was last August or September (approximately). Right after Carl and I disassociated with NCI but before they left Caledon, NCI was griefed pretty substantially, and unusually severely, while trying to teach classes.

NCI leaders still had their estate management powers, so rather than rush in to do battle with (or in Desmond's mind: "waste time with") the griefers, I simply left NCI and their attackers to sort it out amongst themselves. If they wanted more support than that, they could have stuck with Carl and our "No Woodbury helpers" rule.

At the end of the day, I think Caledon didn't draw too much interest because we simply weren't juvenile enough, and didn't get butthurt enough when griefed.

It was simply boring to grief us. We'd see the griefing, call the toll free concierge number and go back to what we were doing. I've known of instances where concierge was already on it, before we even noticed ourselves.

* * * * *

Regarding the Emerald group ~ you missed my whole point. Tell me, Prok, just what *could* the Emerald guys do for Linden Research? Seriously? Spell it out for me in no uncertain terms. WHY would anyone enter into some dire conspiratorial... something with these guys?

It's about like the ancient King of Siam entering into a dread conspiracy with a rice farmer. What would be the point? What power would be gained? Sorry, but this is just fails the rationality test.

And I have no idea who the hell Fractured is ~ this is the Emerald boss? News to me. I thought Chalice vaguely had something to do with them, but Prok I don't keep up with all this crap. I have never even once run Emerald, I stick to official Linden Research software.

* * * * *

I *do* hear plenty of things, and know a fair bit of what goes on in some circles, but let me try to put this in perspective: as far as I know, Woodbury was last year's news and not even on my radar. This latest news is probably their 'dead cat bounce' as far as the media is concerned, and they will probably soon join the pantheon of buried threads at the bottoms of forums everywhere.

[Prokofy Neva]

Desmond, you truly are an asshole, but it's good you are on the record so that the public can see it.

You shouldn't defend me for tribal reasons, but reasons of principle. But then...you don't have principles, so that's out.

I am not victory dancing about Woodbury. Not once have I written WOOT THEY ARE GONE like others are doing everywhere; not once have I celebrated, cracked open the champagne, or gloated. Nothing in what I have written indicates anything but a kind of grim resignation -- yes, the Lindens finally deleted them. No, they aren't really gone, only chastened for a time. No, it's not some win for me, not after four years of losses.

But you just *have* to go and be a total fucking asshole and accuse me of the very thing they do, don't you? Because you are a total dick.

Gosh, I'm glad we have you ON THE RECORD now that you have disassociated with NCI over Woodbury. . When were we going to get that? Never. Because you don't run a blog and don't even post on the forums, but just lob coy little pieces of shit like you did on sluniverse over this, siding with the perpetrators at Emerald.

Nothing is painfully obvious because you haven't said a fucking word to the public. Does a blip on your pretentious little closed steampunk sim group count? Of course not. But I bet you didn't even say anything there, either. What a fucking FRAUD.

My God, claiming that there is only victory dancing or wasting words here, when the job in the thread at Sluniverse, as the other good citizens of Second Life are displaying, is showing some balls, and some courage, and some decency for once in this fucking game, and calling their bullshit.

But you're not doing that, are you Desmond. Instead you are snickering with Fractured, ignoring obvious lies from Imnotgoing, and pretending that you don't have the facts. That you're not sure. That you don't really know what this is about. Blah blah blah. .When they themselves TELL you.

I didn't win any rounds. Why does someone who loses enormous amounts of money and business, for my little business, over four years, declare any "win"? When they still crash my viewer, as well? I fail to see the "win" part. If they are held at bay for a time, great. I already had some customers come back; life is more peaceful and fun than it has been in weeks. There won't be any dancing, however, as it is merely a respite in a protracted war.

The griefing of me is on the record, blogged, with pictures, and with witnesses. Ask Carl, who is your colleague at Caledon, if you can't accept it from me.

Um, we all realize how fabulous your life is, Desmond, and your fabulous Blue Mars. But you're not answering the question. Were you or were you not griefed by Woodbury after breaking with NCI and ING? Well? You're going to pretend you're not sure? You're going to say "oh, I left it to NCI to sort out"?. Unacceptable. Your evasion is noted.

Kicking the Woodburies in the ribs?! Again, that's not what that thread is about. It's about the community organizing, for want of a better court of law, for want of due process is this god-forsaken world, an elders tribal court, if you will, that is sorting out what happened. And asking questions. And not taking bullshit. And there you are, on the record, talking like a fucking freak, worse than the woodburies, not even admitting what they themselves admit. It's an outrage.

Getting butthurt and juvenile when griefed? FUCK YOU, big time. There is nothing "juvenile" about rightfully filing an AR and publicizing attacks that lead to hundreds of dollars in losses. There is nothing juvenile in reporting and publicizing the *rape* and sexual harassment, even if in pixelated terms and therefore not like real rape, of my tenants. If that's juvenile, I'd hate to see what grown-up is in your book. Oh, I see. It's studied cynical and cunning indifference, assholery to the max.

You are not getting it about Emerald because you are one of them, these venal Californians with their hacker culture. They don't need girls and oil rigs, like I said, they need power over people. *Like you do*.

Fractured is the person you kidded with multiple times on sluniverse.com -- or are you forgetful of your own posts.

Not surprised you are pretending the Woodbury chapter isn't really getting media (three major real life publications means nothing to you as a total geek dolt) and not surprising that you imagine it's all yesterday's newspaper compared to your own fabulous career. Someday, you will be the buried thread Desmond.

[Desmond Shang]

>>"Were you or were you not griefed by Woodbury after breaking with NCI and ING? Well? You're going to pretend you're not sure? You're going to say "oh, I left it to NCI to sort out"?. Unacceptable. Your evasion is noted."

Fact: I've had reports of fairly recent Woodbury griefing in Caledon. However the reports deserve some vetting. It's not like we are Ravenglass or your Friday meeting thing, where they come around a lot.

Fact: NCI was heavily griefed in Caledon shortly after the break with Carl and before they left Caledon. Was it Woodbury? If I were a betting man, I'd say the odds were good it was Woodbury. Who else would bother, especially then, with that particular target?

I'm certainly not going to be in any hurry to piece together Caledon's griefing record for you. It's a free country; if it's THAT big a deal to you, you ask around in Caledon and tell ME who was griefing, and when.

As for what's unacceptable or not to *you*... pfffft. You've been plenty unacceptable by my lights, for a very, very long time.

[Hypatia Callisto]

Like anyone in Caledon cares to help someone who is so determined to see our community disbanded and fail.

No, we Whos of Caledon will sing no matter what Mr. Prok (aka Grinch) or the rest of the word-salading griefers do. Because we have something you don't. That's friendship and community, love and respect for a common vision of our virtual world. We are not griefers, we are average Joes and Janes who you would like to see destroyed, as if everything was a mighty struggle for freedom - to destroy our freedom so you can get a little pleasure at seeing someone fail. That's sadism. To me, that's still a kind of griefing, even though you're not setting your sadistic treatment of us in code, but rather long epistles of words on your blog.

We Caledonians are nothing but a pawn to you, you don't give a rat's backside for us at all, and we're not buying your faux concern for any of the griefing that has occured in Caledon. You are, like any other griefer, looking to get a little satisfaction from seeing others suffer.

It must really get on your nerves, our happiness. So determined to see us sad, broken and failing.

Sad, just sad. But we will sing in joy regardless, and we will prosper in spite of your hate. The right way - without writing epistles of hate against people, without griefing people's sims. By simply being us, neo-Victorian Steampunks in a virtual world, having fun doing what we enjoy, not doing a thing to harm you or anyone else. So keep on hating, we will keep on loving and creating and living our Second Lives, regardless of how you feel about it.

[Prokofy Neva]

Hypatia, grow up. You're ridiculous.

I can only repeat what I said to Lum: stop being a forums fucktard, trying to use emotional blackmail of this sort and false claims.

Just because I criticize Desmond's assholery, which is frankly on display to more people than just me, including some who bear him silently in Caledon, doesn't mean that I've spoken against Caledon or wish to see this project fail. I was a founding member of Caledon and still have the flag. I wish the best for Caledon. I shop there and explore there.

Do you so identify country and king that you can't perceive your nation as existing without this cult of personality called "Desmond"?!

I have a very narrow agenda here: determining whether Caledon was griefed after they broke with NCI to see if in fact Imnotgoing Sideways sparked a griefing attack, either directly, although behind the scenes, or indirectly, as a tribal act of solidarity. And so it seems that yes, Caledon was griefed.

Because if these freaks are pretending to attack bourgeois self-important furies, they'd have no plumper target than Caledon, wouldn't they, Hypatia?

I don't have any sadistic glee at all in anyone getting punished by Woodbury; none at all. Um, I'm the one assiduously recording their crimes, daring to speak out, and abuse reporting them constantly even when others won't, remember? I don't find that's the sort of misery that loves company; I don't "need" any other community to be griefed just because I am (and others were, and were silent).

Your happiness is less than you claim, as with all complicated communities in SL, and it has nothing to do with me.

Not writing epistles of hate? Desmond writes them constantly about me, and so I respond.

Loving and creating SL? You're smug and self-centered little affected creatures and we see through you.