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« Goatse Goes to the White House | Main | What is Technocommunism and the Internet of Things? »

April 18, 2010

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No

No, you're not only associated with these discussions because you're visible. You're associated with these discussions because you're such a comic figure. It lets people attack you instead of the substance. You do the same harm here that you do to IP discussions: You act as a magnet for ridicule and take the position you endorse down with it.

If you got an editor or learned to express ideas without insult and hyperbole, you might stop poisoning both IP and viewer discussions. Make room for discussions about substance instead of ranting character assassinations, conspiracies, and Prokofy catch phrases. Maybe you would actually make a difference.

Prokofy Neva

Yet another expected drive-by anonymous fucktard comment.

You must have a valid SL or RL name to post here.

There's nothing "comic" about asking perfectly ordinary questions about legitimate privacy concerns. Emerald and Woodbury griefers have long since learned that they can deflect legitimate inquiry by trying to heckle and harass someone who asks these rightful questions, distract from their crimes, and get mileage by ridiculing, parodying, etc. What is sometimes called "the Saul Alinsky" tactics of relentless harassment and parodying.

I don't plan to "get an editor". This is my blog, and I do what I want on my blog. I'm not required to write pieces for USA Today here. I'm not paid to do so. I will not be changing anything I do. I am not "poisoning" any discussion but continuing to ask the rightful, legitimate questions that need to be asked about these *criminals* who have a long record of criminality which they merely exposed and made documentable by griefing me.

Gwyn has indeed engaged in deliberate character assassination, and I'm still trying to think up what the right punishment for her should be, given that I don't believe in putting in laws after the fact of an offense (i.e. introducing a "temp ban" on some posters here if they behave badly, something I've never done -- I wait until they actually incite or cause real damages and then I permaban).

There isn't any "conspiracy theory" in my probing questions about Emerald. Everyone with any analytical ability who isn't tainted by the opensource cultic take on this can see it.

I don't need to "make a difference". I need to write the truth as I see it.

Stroker Serpentine

Perhaps this email was not about Neil or Emerald Dev's..but Linden Lab violating their own privacy policy? Worth investigating.

And yes, it's the FBI Cybercrimes Division that investigates online theft, scams, Cyberbullying,Copyright and Trademark infringement in the U.S.

twitter.com/TammyNowotny

I actually post comments with the appropriate keywords just to get an RT @RedScareBot --- though the 'bot usually ignores me. The keywords are "Communist," "Commie," "Marxist," "Socialist," and "czar": and maybe a few variations thereof. I think it's leftist satire, not an attempt at intimidation.

Prokofy Neva

My sense is that it is about Emerald, not Linden's regular viewer, but the allegation is that a Linden leaked a connection of an e-mail -- rather, he didn't leak an unknown email out of an account, he "helped" by matching one email seen in one place external to LL with another place external to LL (I think that's how it worked). So, maybe he can slip in under the wire of technicality, but his aiding and abetting of the stalking and threatening even of a miscreant is troublesome. This is like the JLU. It's wrong.

Antonius Misfit, himself someone I have no time of day for, as he's one of those obnoxious opensource freaks, has a post up in which even he has to get a bit exercised at the criminality of a non-developing w-hat griefer, Wut Moorlord, being present at this meeting, and the crashing of the sims:

http://antoniusmisfit.blogspot.com/2010/04/updates-on-third-party-viewer-policy.html

"Update: Regarding Emerald, Prok has a new blog post up which connects almost all of the dots about these folks who, in all honesty, should have been perma-banned from the first TOS/CS violation they committed(feel free to skip her usual open source=evil BS, of course). What Prok misses, however, is the connection between Onyx and Gemini CDS. Yes, CDS will ban all copybot viewers detected, except Onyx since it's an Emerald "project". Combined with the TPV policy going into effect, the Emerald devs can run roughshod over SL with no one the wiser, with only the above choices left for SL residents."

I know about Gemini CDS from reading all the blogs and forums. But what more can be said about it? It's disgusting as I indicated. But what can you do about it if the Lindens are allowing it to pass? Just keep raising the issues, I guess.

As for the connection of that with Onyx, I didn't name the "customized" viewers that Emerald devs feel they can reserve for their "personal use" but that's exactly what I meant -- any and all viewers they make and use that in fact violate the TOS but which they get past the Lindens claiming "personal use" or "for testing" or whatever bullshit there is.

Antonius is putting an even more sinister spin on all this than I am (yet I'm the one called the conspiracy nut). He's saying that the Lindens are colluding with Emerald to put all the other devs out of business because Emerald is basically getting a wink and a nod to violate the TOS, but the others have to abide by it.

And that is on one level very convincing as a hypothesis, merely because we've seen this before: Cory Linden did not prosecute libsecondlife for reverse-engineering the client back when there was no opensourced client and that was definitely a TOS violation. That is, libsl got to keep playing it with tacit Linden approval and even some secret loving, but others might find themselves banned if they weren't "connected". We realize all that.

The question is whether the Lindens are really that nefarious. I don't think the current Lindens are.

Steam Bunjie

@Stroker Serpentine

The same FBI Cybercrimes Division that lets Kalel Venkman run riot, collecting RL/SL information and packing it into a harassment wiki for consumption by his little fascist group.

And I have told them but it's pretty much evident their useless and should not be invoked in a serious conversation.

There is no appropriate RL authority that will stand up for virtual word residents, unless you take someone directly to court.

And even then they are only deciding on your single case not anyone elses.

twitter.com/iliveisl

i like yahoo better, newer algorithm - but using multiple search yields wider results overall

pefton

you can see emails CLEAR TEXT in the mailing list, there's no linden magic involved.

Snickers Snook

I would think anyone who sends an email asking that you "do not disclose my email" is asking for their email to be disclosed and/or is pulling a goof. Anyone can make a throwaway account on Gmail or Hotmail to send an email to someone without giving away anything. Well maybe an IP address -- not sure about that but still. Certainly someone with high-level programming or hacking skills would figure out some way of hiding if they wanted to stay hidden.

Marissa Mistwallow

"I frankly have to roll my eyes at a company that... cannot prosecute real crime because the evidence is in encrypted chat."

Uh... don't use encryption then? Nobody is making you.

Encryption is an important feature for many people. Believe it or not, business people use second life for important things; business people who have competitors, and trade secrets, and strategies. Encrypted messaging is one of the features that might actually get IRL companies to consider SL as a platform (which LL most likely wants).

If *you* don't want people sending you encrypted messages, then turn encryption off. It's easy. They won't be able to send you an OTR message if you don't have OTR on.

Prokofy Neva

Marissa, all your indignant self-righteous posturing here is bogus. And your cynical eyerolling dickish "uh.....don't use encryption then?" is narrow-minded and typical of the geek forced-migration policy.

1. Businesses have a solution for keeping communications secret. It's called SLE, the SL enterprise edition that makes them able to control their own sim, on their own server, not connected to the SL grid.

2. Businesses that come on the main grid so they can get exposure to their brand or customers or whatever will have to weigh whether the encryption they need for R&D is something they should demand of an open platform.

3. They shouldn't; you shouldn't; the Lindens shouldn't condone it. Because businesses who need secret communications don't HAVE to be here; they have SLE or other options. The overwhelming majority of "use cases" for encryption are for griefers chatting and other TOS violators. Their insistence on secret communications hobbles the Lindens ability to fight their misdeeds and prosecute them effectively -- it sentences all of us to endless Woodbury griefing when the Lindens can't use server records and chat to make valid prosecutions.

If YOU can't submit to the simple rules of a relatively open society that enable the governing force to prosecute on the basis of chat, then go on OpenSim or go on SLE. You don't need to be here -- try a little bit of your OWN forced-migration medicine, cupcake.

Encrypted messaging will not get any businesses to consider SL. IF they consider SL, they can use SLE, where they are now driven, because most businesses don't need to harness themselves to 32,000 sims full of cybersexing blingtards and middleaged platonic friendship scripters listening to Grace McDunnough. They don't need it. In those off hours when they need to listen to Grace, they log on to SL. If they need to cook up secret inventions, they log on to their business sim. It's a few taps on the keyboard.

Want to live in a huge networked open environment? Live in it. Want to encrypt your chat? Live in the closed environent of the opensource orthodoxy of opensim. See how attractive it makes the society -- not! Like lack of commerce and IP protection was also not attractive.

Marissa Mistwallow

I didn't mean to offend, I'm sorry for my poor phrasing. My point is that encryption is a choice between *both* users using it, and nobody is forced to use OTR. Any two users could just as easily chat outside of second life, using encryption, so banning encryption from second life wouldn't actually do anything other than alienate some users.

I understand that you don't like to use encryption, and that's fine. But it's a very important technology on the Internet, used for a lot of things by a lot of people, so please don't make us all out to be griefers or criminals.

Someone's reason for using encryption could be as simple as, they are at a starbucks wifi hotspot, and don't want every other person at the hotspot to be able to snoop on their embarassing conversations. Or that they want to compete with Linden Lab (make the next xstreet or whatnot), and don't want to be overheard planning.

Marissa Mistwallow

Oh, I'd also like to note that encryption isn't actually against the rules anymore. LL removed that part from their TOS, likely for the business reasons I mentioned above (and most companies won't pay for a virtual world just for them... the whole point of using second life *is* to be on the grid)

Prokofy Neva

Yeah, um, I know that Marissa, but that doesn't mean it is right, that they have done the right thing -- they haven't. And they didn't do it for business reasons. Business doesn't need to be on the main grid demanding encryption; it can go on the SLE and pay more, or for that matter, go on opensim.

While one would think that the whole point of business is to be on the grid, that's not how many businesses look at it. They don't have the staff or the time or the money to invest in the tiny population and difficult focus groups with anonymous unreliable people, etc. It would be good if they did invest this, but we have seen some very big companies do it right, and spend lots on it, like the Australian telecom with The Pond and the Orange cell phone people, and Nissan, and they came and went. Even those who fell over backwards engaging with and coddling the inworld content providers couldn't justify sustaining it, it's too small, and doesn't hook up to anything readily. It's not a facebook group where you get 60,000 people instantly just for putting up a contest or a coupon.

The encrytption struggle as you well know, except you're not being honest here, is about the deal with Emerald. The Lindens probably said, "Ok, stop your copying and griefing, and we'll let you have encryption as long as you don't get up to any real trouble with it." They figured they'd give it away, then try to police it with the language in the TPV. Good luck with that.

What happened is that the Lindens got muscled on this. Badly.

Sean Williams

Encryption is a double edged sword, like any security technology. It can be used to help those who need it, be they the average Joe or someone more important. It can also be used by the wrong people.

As can all security technologies.

There are computer viruses out there that can encrypt all of your documents and other files, then direct you to a web page demanding payment for the encryption key.

Other viruses make use of a function found on all modern PCs: fdisk, which utterly reformats your hard disk.

Still others wear the mask of being an Anti Virus or other helpful program when in reality they are anything but.

Yes, there are people who wish these functions do not exist. Many of them are average users with no need of such functions. Many more are the ones who are often thwarted by such functions.

Could encryption within second Life be used by griefers? Yes - it could. It can also be used by others who wish to keep their private conversations private.

Big business is not the only type that can benefit from encrypted IM conversations: Club owners, rental agents etc could all benefit.

IMs are not as secure as anyone would have you believe - they are just as open to interception as any other form of communication.

If the issue you have is with the fact such encryption "prevents" Linden Lab from gaining a log file of each conversation - allow me to enlighten you on a few things.

It would be utter child's play for Linden Lab to defeat such a measure as it is their servers the messages travel on. The first way is to retool the client and/or server program to save an identical copy of the log that already goes to your hard drive - on their server.

The second is to embed a specialized keylogger into the instant messenger section of their program that is triggered when an IM has focus.

Making it a ToS offense to remove either of these alterations would cover current third Party Client programs.

Alternately, one of the "deals" made between the Emerald Developers and Linden Lab might just have included the "keys" to the encryption system or a permanent key for the Linden Servers to allow them to record the IMs. This is far more likely as those I have talked to that use Emerald have said that offline IMs no longer appear garbled to them.

Offline IMs as you well know are a part of the Linden server system and thus would appear garbled if the Lindens themselves did not have a key.

Funny that .... simple logic is all it takes to figure out that there is no problem with encrypted IMs whatsoever.

Marissa Mistwallow

It's very disingenuous of you to claim to know where I'm coming from. In fact, I care far more about the encryption technology than the software that included it. I started using OTR long before it was in Emerald, (before there *was* Emerald).

KT Furman

@Sean Williams:
Does that simple logic account for one of the emerald developers harassing another resident and bragging that because they believed said resident was using OTR, that LL wouldn't be able to prove anything? That happened.

"Offline IMs as you well know are a part of the Linden server system and thus would appear garbled if the Lindens themselves did not have a key."

Not necessarily. Did this change in behavior happen at the same time the compliant version of Emerald was rolled out? If so, did you consider that the client may be checking the online status of the recipient and sending the message unencrypted if the user is offline?

@Prokofy: I agree with you for the most part but I go a step further on the CDS/Onyx bit. I believe CDS is actually functioning as a part of Onyx.

It's not that wild of an accusation. Fractured Crystal has admitted his private viewer uses a "network of sims" to help it identify alts while harassing a club owner via IM. We already know that CDS harvests avatar names, UUIDs, etc through it's connection to bogus media streams.

I'd bet on Onyx piggybacking on that network of CDS equipped sims in order to scrape data related to which avatars connected from what IP addresses and when. Why do your own dirty work when you can get people to pay to do it for you?

Air Jordan 15

Thanks for posting, I really enjoyed your most recent post. I think you should post more often, you obviously have natural ability for blogging!

Danger Mouse

@Steam Bunjie, you sound like somebody the JLU busted, LOL. Doesn't it seem strange to you that the only people who complain about the JLU are the ones who've gotten caught and banned?

As far as the rest of this stuff goes, I don't see ANY white hats here. Everybody involved in the Modular Systems meltdown, either inside or outside, seems to have blood on their hands.

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