Cull.TV -- and a Cull of Historical Record of 6 Years Ago

Hamlet ne Linden Au is yammering about a new thing made by former Lindens and a prominent SL resident -- called Cull.TV

I got a beta link and tried it out. I can see one of the benefits is that it makes a "channel" out of all the videos that your Facebook friends happen to make. When you sign on to it with FB, it sucks all those links out of FB into a channel. So you can see all the wacky things your friends send, like bizarre Belarusian political parody videos, on the "big screen" of your computer. When you look at this channel, you realize how much you don't really look at all the videos your friends push to you.

Another thing you can do is search and find Youtubes that you like and watch them. And then -- apparently -- after enough of that, the system will "just know" what you like from its algorithms and start selecting and pushing stuff to you in a "seamless whole". I didn't see how that part worked yet.

It also has other channels of weird and typical stuff you can click on. The main point is the interface, which is like a TV, without all the surrounding Youtube ad clutter.

Oh! So basically they found a way to suck content out of Youtube without having to endure disruptive and interruptive and distractive ads, sort of a TIVO for Youtube. I wonder how Youtube will view this. Maybe Google will buy it out to kill it.

Of course, there's the issue of licensed content. But...that's not troubling these young folk -- not yet, anyway! The point is to have this start-up "become viral" and "get lots of users" and then...we'll think up a business model!

Of course, in describing these folks, Hamlet fails to tell us the main operative point: that the chief engineer, so to speak, is none other than Eddie Stryker, original maker and seller of Copybot, and a founder of libsecondlife -- which reverse-engineered the SL client before it was legal to do so, but were never banned for this gross violation of the TOS because Cory Linden "liked" them.

Of course, like all good script kiddies, this enthusiastic young promoter of the open source cult went on to work at...Intel. Like Fred Wilson says, the tech industry eats its young. However, not for naught. Eddie (real name: John Hurliman) laboured in the fields of VWRAP, the long-winded (and failed) effort to bring about "interoperability" "standards" in the IETF for virtual worlds (i.e. make it easier to flush content out of Second Life into the open sims). Then he quit, inexplicably. Possibly because by then, the list consisted of Morgaine talking to herself. Then this entire effort got hijacked by the military and taken elsewhere, to the working group at IEEE. We only see the tip of the iceberg of this story.

I think Hurliman then left Intel? I'm hazy on that part. Or his 20 percent day was now devoted to some other thing?

Now he's working at Cull.TV and along with him is his lovely girlfriend, the former Iridium Linden. Iridium was famous for having the Linden name "Heretic," and for being active promoting this "SL Certified" group which I hated and battled -- because I really felt it was awful to make certified "experts" in things like building and scripting and skew the economy with Linden FIC even more than it already is.

Somehow, Robin or some grown-up at the Lab made Heretic change her name. It did seem a bit...disconcerting as a name. I never got the bear. Pity. Iridium, which is probably the name of some cell phone ingredient that people kill each other for in the Congo and enrich big IT, then left the Lab. Oh, and she's Eddie's gf. Isn't that fun? The maker of Copybot has a girlfriend who was a Linden. Everybody seems to forget this pre-history, but it's interesting.

I always found Iridium interesting to talk to, and then once she pointed to her boyfriend at SLCC and explained it was *that guy* and of course, well, I will never forgive and never forget on that.

Another Linden who is in with the Cull.TV crew is Jesse Reiner whose Linden name used to be Jesse Linden. He had an avatar and a profile picture that looked completely unlike him in RL, unlike me, of course. Jesse worked at some other companies, I think it was Sony Home for awhile, and of course, his customer service chops were very finely honed in LL. He had the job with the title like "community director" or something and had to go around sort of handling dissent and unhappiness on all sorts of things.

Somehow, it fell to Jesse to be the one to first warn me about my impending permaban from the forums, then explain it when I later complained. He was the one -- famously -- to explain that I hadn't violated the TOS, but that banning me "was a business decision". I'll bet! Dis Philip's pet NDA'd prom queen Aimee, die, sucker!

As the now *6th* anniversary (!) of my infamous old forums ban in 2005 is now upon us, and 5 years is like 50 in SL, I think enough time has lapsed that I can publish the chat logs from those fun encounters, as Jesse warned me on the forums and inworld, then took up the debate about whether this was right. It's all so fascinating, how this company gave this job to this kid of 20-something, and how he struggled to try to exercise some sort of principles of governance and explain them -- even though, of course, the entire thing was absurd. I hold nothing against him; he was doing his job -- a job that sort of evolved out of the machine, and not with much thought.

Then, for bonus credit, I'm adding other logs about governance issues inworld -- classifieds, events list, etc. from our early days...

JESSE LINDEN WARNS ME OF IMPENDING FORUMS BAN 6/13/2005

Jesse Linden: prokofy
Prokofy Neva: yes?
Jesse Linden: the forums
Jesse Linden: you're killing me here
Prokofy Neva: what's the problem Jesse
Jesse Linden: you are being reported for personal attacks etc
Jesse Linden: im asking you not to name names
Prokofy Neva: well um have you seen any of the personal attacks on me, like my avatar's head blown off and bloody?
Prokofy Neva: have you read Jauani Wu's savage attacks on me calling me names and destroying my business and costing me customers?
Prokofy Neva: I guess those don't count?
Jesse Linden: have you reported those
Jesse Linden: ?
Jesse Linden: im going through the reported posts right now
Jesse Linden: and what i see is a bunch of people upset that you are saying this or that about them
Prokofy Neva: yes I reported Dark Cellardor or whatever
Prokofy Neva: well Jesse I'm not a weenie little fanboy like them and I don't run whining on every post
Prokofy Neva: but Dark Cellardor said "fuck you" and all the rest -- that one I did report because he has made my avatar, with a raven, using my picture, and bloodied its head like it is shot off
Prokofy Neva: I guess that um missed the radar? well I did report
Prokofy Neva: not to mention the tons of whining and sniveling and pissing and moaning that these types engage in constantly at my address
Jesse Linden: im sure jeska looked into it
Prokofy Neva: uh-uh
Prokofy Neva: then I guess I wn't see more from Dark but I see it constantly and report it constantly
Prokofy Neva: everyone thinks a blown off bloody head of a raven is funny -- as I'm sure you do : )
Prokofy Neva: My threads did not make personal attacks or single out people
Prokofy Neva: when Jauani *names me by name* and savages my business and calls me a "skimmer" and a "scammer" and a "pyramid" schemer
Jesse Linden: you took aim specifically at aimee and cubey
Prokofy Neva: Robin says "don't call Jauani biased, Prok"
Prokofy Neva: I didn't "take aim" at them Jesse, I just commented on their feting in yet another media article.
Jesse Linden: the comments about aimee with the prom queen remarks etc
Jesse Linden: were over the line
Prokofy Neva: um, calling me a pyramid schemer, uh, that doesn't qualify?
Prokofy Neva: Aimee IS a prom queen and doesn't deny she portrays that image
Jesse Linden: im dealing with this on a case by case basis
Prokofy Neva: I'm NOT a pyramid schemer
Jesse Linden: you knwpo that
Prokofy Neva: u-huh
Prokofy Neva: well I reported Jauani beause he was in the LINDEN THREAD
Prokofy Neva: I spoke to Robin PERSONALLY writing her for 3 days about the 3-4 savage threads he began as a deliberate attack on me
Prokofy Neva: and she's still not getting it
Jesse Linden: somehow i doubt that
Jesse Linden: robin and jeska are both very smart and capable
Prokofy Neva: if she got it, she'd be speaking to me, and he'd stop sending me harassing IMs in the game too
Jesse Linden: people
Prokofy Neva: yes well then how could it be that Robin would say "oh, Jauani isn't talking about you"
Prokofy Neva: though he mentioned me by name! in a Linden forum! where he can't be touched!
Jesse Linden: i dont know prokofy, im not familiar with the particulars here
Prokofy Neva: where he mentions "people with 5 sims of tier!
Prokofy Neva: well I will abuse report all of them again to try to burn it in them Jessie since it failed to register the first time
Prokofy Neva: there are at least 4 threads where he is hounding me
Prokofy Neva: naming all the particulars of my business and making all kinds of wild accusations
Jesse Linden: you have the same right to report abuse as anyone else
Prokofy Neva: Calling Aimee a prom queen is over the line???
Prokofy Neva: I'm just not a little weenie fanboy like them
Jesse Linden: no it went well beyond that
Prokofy Neva: I can see I'll have to become one to keep up
Prokofy Neva: ok and um what violation of the TOS is this again?
Jesse Linden: exactly
Jesse Linden: its not
Prokofy Neva: Honestly, I have nothing by cynicism about you and your system
Jesse Linden: thast why i'm asking you to tone it down here
Prokofy Neva: when you let Jauani savage me for a week, making customers leave
Jesse Linden: instead of slapping formal warnings and suspencions around
Prokofy Neva: he gets to do that? with no comment and special talk from you? huh?
Jesse Linden: i dont even know who that is
Prokofy Neva: Jauani?
Jesse Linden: yup
Jesse Linden: jeska asked me to take over forum moderation
Jesse Linden: for an hour
Prokofy Neva: I've AR'd some of his posts because they really are personal attacks
Jesse Linden: all i see is reported posts about you
Prokofy Neva: because Jesse, they are all whiners and wimps that just do that to harass me
Prokofy Neva: that is a misuse of the system
Jesse Linden: you are an angel then?
Prokofy Neva: they get to blow off my avatar's head, and I call Aimee a prom queen and that's bad???
Prokofy Neva: I haven't made personal attacks, since I don't view calling Aimee a prom queen a personal attack, I view it as an accurate description
Prokofy Neva: anyway I'll be happy to move all these accurate descriptions to my own blog : )
Prokofy Neva: like they all do
Prokofy Neva: to escape the TOS
Prokofy Neva: I'll see if I can google her and also accuse her of copyright theft too or something like that
Prokofy Neva: Let's see what i can come up with
Prokofy Neva: What Jauani did to me is wrong, and you can't see the forest for the trees
Jesse Linden: not right now
Prokofy Neva: it's an outrage because he's doing this to try to push me out of busineses and advantage himself
Prokofy Neva: you shouldn't let people misuse the forums in that way
Jesse Linden: im dealing with the situation at hand
Prokofy Neva: well I will go right now and abuse report him for calling me a pyramid schemer
Jesse Linden: if you want to send me Jauani's post you are talking about i can look into it
Prokofy Neva: and Robin will say "Oh, he's not tlaking about you, in fact he called you insightful" -- it's very cleverly done
Prokofy Neva: I'll do that right now
Prokofy Neva: brb
Prokofy Neva: It's a very simple story, both Gwyn and Jauani became officers in my group on an emergency basis to prevent my land from being seized
Jesse Linden: Aimee Weber's name is like every prom queen and yearbook diva you loved to hate -- the "Aimee" is definitely the kind of name that has a "heart" drawn in thick felt-tip pen over the i, and the two "ee's" are definitely not in her birth certificate name (
Prokofy Neva: and both of them saw that I had 4.5 sims and they became hugely jealous and aggressive after that
Prokofy Neva: Did I say something you and everybody else doesn't agree with Jesse?
Prokofy Neva: Isn't that EXACTLY what she is?
Jesse Linden: i dont know
Jesse Linden: is she?
Jesse Linden: you dont think that's a bit mean spirited
Prokofy Neva: um, look at the upper right hand corner of the forums
Jesse Linden: >
Jesse Linden: ?
Prokofy Neva: No, I think it's an important corrective to the overall love-fest that goes on with these prima donnas
Prokofy Neva: but whatever Jesse, I know you need to keep your world safe for the FIC so I will back off
Prokofy Neva: I only wish to defend myself when they attack me, and when Robin tells me not to call Jauani "biased" she's just not getting the context
Prokofy Neva: He's more than biased, he's on a personal vendetta of some wierd kind
Jesse Linden: hmm
Prokofy Neva: I've never gotten angry at these forums before
Prokofy Neva: but when Robin went out of her way to tell me on a Saturday night at 10 pm her time
Prokofy Neva: that I can't call Jauani "biased" in a post, when he is savaging me
Prokofy Neva: it's just blatantly unfair
Prokofy Neva: it's so typical of all the blow jobs going on there on that forum
Jesse Linden: i dont know, prrokofy, im wayy to busy with other projects right now to keep my ear to the ground
Jesse Linden: in that much detail
Jesse Linden: but i know in your case
Jesse Linden: stirring the pot
Jesse Linden: is not going to be productive for you
Prokofy Neva: um Jesse, Jauani is stirring the point far worst
Prokofy Neva: and getting off scott free
Prokofy Neva: it's appalling
Prokofy Neva: 3 other people saw it
Prokofy Neva: they all queried in the Hotline
Jesse Linden: ive got to run
Prokofy Neva: Travas, Declax and I forget the third
Prokofy Neva: read my mail to you
Jesse Linden: but feel free to email me a specific
Jesse Linden: complaint
Jesse Linden: ok ill look into it
Jesse Linden: and respond
Jesse Linden: meanwhile back off a biot
Jesse Linden: bit
Prokofy Neva: please do because I no longer have any faith in any of you

Jesse Linden's Warning on the Forums Internal Message System 5/25/2005

Prokofy,

regardless, the forums are NOT the place to air your grievences about specific disciplinary action (or perceived lack thereof) by LL against other residents. That's the bottom line, plain and simple, end of story...deliberately violating our TOS as a form of protest will only result in disciplinary action against You and not your intended target. It seems counter-productive to me...
The other component of this is that I was simply trying to get you to take a break for a few days. Whether your posts were actually inflammatory or not, their mere presence in the forums was causing near riots (!)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Hutchence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Linden
We're getting really tired of this...you are flaunting our forum guidelines and terms of service and making a mockery of us in the process. We've tried to take the high road with you and allow you every opportunity to modify your behavior. Be assured we will not allow this to continue. You are veering quickly towards a full banishment of all your alts from the forums as well as possible banishment from Second Life itself. Consider this a very stern and likely final warning...your account will be under review next week by the entire community and customer service department. If you have any intention of continuing to participate in Second Life, I suggest you cease and desist posting inflammatory messages immediately.



Dear Jesse, I was unable to read this message until just this minute because you had blocked this account. I fully understanding your warnings. But I would like to see from you and the entire community and customer service department and awareness that residents within SL have publicly disclosed my RL information, and also libeled me with false information which they got from someone on the Internet with a similar name to mine (the false charge of plagiarism). The outing of my RL information has caused me weeks of malicious griefing and loads of personal attacks. None of the residents who have engaged in this very blatant, repeated, and malicious TOS violation have gotten so much as an official warning. The police blotter has no mention of any of these incidents. It really is appalling, and clearly not even handed. If you do not want me raising these issues in the forums, I surely understand, but then I'd like to get an assurance from you that someone is reviewing these very serious TOS violations --both RL information disclosure and libel.

Henry/Prokofy

INWORLD CHAT ON FORUMS BAN WARNING 5/27/2005

Prokofy Neva: Hello Jesse since I happened to see you in world, could I ask you....
Jesse Linden: sure whats up?
Prokofy Neva: I'd like to understand what your message to me meant by my account being under "compete community and customer service review"
Prokofy Neva: what are the steps in that and what are the intended consequences and where is the notice of any offense?
Jesse Linden: ha ok
Jesse Linden: just a sec
Jesse Linden: ill be right back
Prokofy Neva: You can see how FIC types like Stonself come up and swear at me with obscnenities with impunity even with you sitting there
Prokofy Neva: THAT is the community that will review me?
Jesse Linden: what would you have me do ?
Jesse Linden: you went wayyy overboard on the forums over the weekend
Prokofy Neva: Do you understand the offenses committed against me first?
Jesse Linden: prokofy
Prokofy Neva: Disclosure of RL information repeatedl on teh LL forums, and libel on the Slunvierse.com forums with the wrong person?
Jesse Linden: im dealing with the case at hand
Jesse Linden: i wasnt there
Jesse Linden: for these other instances you're referring to
Jesse Linden: my job
Jesse Linden: is pretty simple
Prokofy Neva: Wwell that is the context for the last few months is RL disclosure and libel
Jesse Linden: enforce the forum guidelines
Prokofy Neva: well can you explain what "community review" is?
Prokofy Neva: is this some kind of panel?
Jesse Linden: no
Jesse Linden: that is the community team at LL
Jesse Linden: you were flaunting abuse of the forums
Prokofy Neva: What is the precise offense? I do not have notice of an actual offense or a link on the forum
Jesse Linden: thatsa pretty serious offense
Jesse Linden: deleting explatives
Jesse Linden: then bragging about how the moderators cant catch you
Jesse Linden: doing it
Prokofy Neva: Is the disclosure of RL information and libel not also a serious offense?
Prokofy Neva: I dn't brag about any moderators not catcying me\
Jesse Linden: thats a separate incident
Prokofy Neva: what happens is that the TOS is unevenly enforced because I've never thought to AR anyone until this last week
Prokofy Neva: I didn't realize that's how the system works
Prokofy Neva: If you hate someone's views AR them to death until themods have to reaspond
Jesse Linden: the system is you have four employees of LL working as hard as they can
Jesse Linden: to monitor a community
Jesse Linden: of thousands
Prokofy Neva: yes I understand
Jesse Linden: uneven-ness is simply a alack of staffing
Jesse Linden: not any moral judgements
Jesse Linden: against one individual or another
Prokofy Neva: yes well I appealed the non-action on the RL disclosure by Nolan Nash and it is still sitting on Michaal's desk
Jesse Linden: if i am not mistaken im pretty sure that incident has been reviewed
Prokofy Neva: and what that results in Jesse is that dozens of people continue to disclose my RL info all over the place
Prokofy Neva: I dn't expect to be told the outcome of an investigation
Jesse Linden: i dont know, you'd have to bring it up again with robin etc
Prokofy Neva: what I do see tho is that everyone still feels a sense of impunity and justice in outing RL info adn even libeling me with the wrong person's info
Jesse Linden: i really dont know the details of that case
Prokofy Neva: I take your point it can't be fougnt on the forums and can't be carried out there
Prokofy Neva: but that is the context for ths situation, what I view as a far far worse offense than shooting in a sandbox
Jesse Linden: nope
Jesse Linden: ?
Prokofy Neva: repeated and deliberate outing of RL information to enable people to stalk me, and give me hatemaiul at my RL mail addresses
Jesse Linden: what do you mean by that
Prokofy Neva: outing of my name, my location, my jobs, my publications
Prokofy Neva: and libel of me with the wrong person, a person accused of plagiarism who has the same RL name as me
Jesse Linden: im sorry that doesn't sounds too nice
Prokofy Neva: that has been the campaign of harassment against me for weeks by people who hate my views and are part of this "FiC" type of mentality
Prokofy Neva: well Jesse try to put yourself 8in my shoes, I have no privacy anymore in this game
Prokofy Neva: I have no Second Life
Jesse Linden: :(
Prokofy Neva: my Second Life has been taken away from me
Prokofy Neva: a Second Life I worked really hard to establsh
Prokofy Neva: taken away by vicious poeople on the forums who hate my views, who in fact themselves started the whole saga
Prokofy Neva: months ago with a personal attack thread about an in-game dispute that had no business being in the forums
Jesse Linden: well, if you hadn't fanned the flames
Prokofy Neva: I have no recourse in the game at all
Jesse Linden: it might have died and gone away as an issue
Prokofy Neva: well if you read my first posts you see that it is a classic situation where a new person is hazed mercilessly by oldbies, this is a constant pattern
Prokofy Neva: I believe my analysis that there is a small but vocal group that seek to control aspects of the game and hinder others and hinder open commerce is an accurate one
Jesse Linden: uh huh
Prokofy Neva: you have only to read the chat history of htis meeting with Robin to see it's the case
Prokofy Neva: a small group saying "don't have events to make money" "don't have the profit motive" "selling land is evil" etc.
Jesse Linden: i think botth can coexist
Prokofy Neva: it's a legitimate point of view, but not one that should be allowed to take charge
Jesse Linden: there's room for commercial
Prokofy Neva: but it's the point of view that brought you the events list bork
Jesse Linden: and non-commercial evebts
Jesse Linden: just like in RL
Prokofy Neva: well but look at the debate that it took to have that
Prokofy Neva: there is still a small but vocal minority that is unhappy at any commercial event at all
Jesse Linden: right
Prokofy Neva: and will carp and peck at something like a real estate tour or a grand opening of a store as offensive
Jesse Linden: well we dont find those types of events offensive
Jesse Linden: so what are you worried about
Prokofy Neva: Yet you stoppoed the organizing of events to more than 3 times a day at first, then 5
Prokofy Neva: and you made the rule about having to do it on your own land which affected the club management system
Jesse Linden: i think the categories and filtering is the key
Prokofy Neva: It should imporve things vastly
Prokofy Neva: but you have a core of people here really angry about the dollarization of the game and the land business
Jesse Linden: right
Prokofy Neva: it disrupts the utopian tekkie or arts vision they came into the game with
Jesse Linden: i can see that
Prokofy Neva: but the masses of new people coming in don't share that view
Prokofy Neva: the scores of people I've brought here from TSO don't share that view
Prokofy Neva: they are looking for ways to get into business and looking for events that bring dwell or money
Prokofy Neva: and they don't want to be dependent on the Lindens
Prokofy Neva: but there isn't a job object for them to click on like in TSO  lol
Prokofy Neva: and when they try to do something independently
Jesse Linden: ive never played TSO or There
Prokofy Neva: they run smakc up against two huge barriers in the game
Jesse Linden: Id like to
Prokofy Neva: the first barrier is the oldbie monopolies on key sectors and the oldbie apprenticing system
Prokofy Neva: a dress designer has to get financial aid and access to fashion shows through the oldbie network
Prokofy Neva: or she risks being slammed as a copyright violator -- the playing gets rough and nasty
Prokofy Neva: the other barrier is all the free items, there is no way a new firstland house designer can break through all that free stuff
Prokofy Neva: which people like Siggy put out merely to draw newbs into their circule and make them customers
Prokofy Neva: that's why the Lindens endorsement of things like Cabinhead is insidious IMHO
Prokofy Neva: there should be less smothering of newbies, they aren't children
Jesse Linden: well, i was (and really still am) a newbie
Prokofy Neva: I dn't see those 2 barriers as fixable any more I've despaired of it but I do hope that as more people come in the game they will just walk around this stuff
Jesse Linden: and i didnt get bombarded with commercial opportunities
Prokofy Neva: well I've a newbie too, but you as a Linden have a good chance of being just an old player with your old player networks
Prokofy Neva: well a Linden isn't going to be bombarded but I know coming in as a newb and coming in with other newbs
Jesse Linden: i think most people are going to be savvy
Jesse Linden: if i have so many dollars
Prokofy Neva: you either had to apprentice yourself to oldbies or face even outright harassment
Jesse Linden: not to spend them all at once
Prokofy Neva: yes most people save
Prokofy Neva: they look around for 2 weeks and save
Prokofy Neva: it's in the second week that they either make it or break it with a positive or negative experience
Prokofy Neva: and there is a powerful lobby that tells them don't buy land, you don't need land to have fun
Prokofy Neva: but if they just bought their land for the lousy $512 they'd experience control of their game
Prokofy Neva: and many do get that but a significant portion are scare
Prokofy Neva: I know because I iddn't buy any land for weeks becuse everyone told me not to
Jesse Linden: why/
Jesse Linden: ?
Prokofy Neva: by "everyone" I mean the FIC types
Prokofy Neva: because they would say it is a ripoff or that if I tried to sell it people would rip me off
Prokofy Neva: or it would be in a lousy location and I'd get stuck with it
Prokofy Neva: these are realities but only in a minority of cases
Prokofy Neva: I've raised on the forums the issue of land and whether you need it and you can see for yourself
Prokofy Neva: a hugely vocal minority trying to discourage the land settlement aspect of the game
Prokofy Neva: and humorously enough
Prokofy Neva: these are often people not only with the free 4096
Prokofy Neva: but 10 accounts of free 4096 stdrung together LOL
Prokofy Neva: I've tried to work with newbies to help them through this process so they have the joy of ownership of first land and then they sell it to get game money or the next land, it should be the positive norm
Jesse Linden: well, thats what i did essentially
Prokofy Neva: Yes I finally got some land but it was EOW but I still managed to sell it at a profit and get started
Prokofy Neva: Today I own about 450,000 meters and I pay about $900 in tier each month on 7 residentail and commercial tenant communities
Jesse Linden: i bought one spot just to have some sort of home
Jesse Linden: then sold it and got something better
Prokofy Neva: Yes I bought my first spot in Refugio to have a home then a mall went up right in front of it LOL
Jesse Linden: once i learned the ropes a bit
Prokofy Neva: that was my introduction to the whole problem
Prokofy Neva: yes you need to learn the ropes sometimes the hard way but I think it's to be encouraged and $512 isn't such a loss
Jesse Linden: 7 residentail and commercial tenant communities, what is that ?
Prokofy Neva: 99 percent of the time you can still sell for a profit
Prokofy Neva: I have Ravenglass Rentals, Pharos Properties, Aztecha, Free Tibet, etc which are tenant communities
Prokofy Neva: those are people who rent land from me, and some of them donate tier to the group
Jesse Linden: i see
Prokofy Neva: I'm the only landlord in the game who maintains open groups of strangers to donate tier
Prokofy Neva: it's something that has some people very angry because they resent that idea
Prokofy Neva: that's why some have portrayed me falsely as scamming newbies but you can interview the newbies, they are happy, not scammed
Prokofy Neva: and it is risky to have open groups of hundreds of strangers on a land group because of malicious officer recall risks
Prokofy Neva: my groups have been attacked twice by officer recall by people who joined merely to retaliate for the forums
Prokofy Neva: that paralyzes the group and harms hundreds of people at once
Prokofy Neva: they can't add roomies and can't join the group to hold their prims while officer recall is under way for 7 days
Prokofy Neva: but I am devoted to keeping that ideal of the open group that can make sims a better place
Jesse Linden: well we need more discourse on the forums and less bickering
Prokofy Neva: Yes I understand I guess I will have to plya like Cristiano and take all the discussions and notecarded convos and other TOS violatoins out to my blog
Prokofy Neva: that seems to be tolreated, unlike Stratics which bans for that kind of activity
Jesse Linden: well the forums are owned by LL
Jesse Linden: and we hold the right
Prokofy Neva: So I get how it works now, I didn't at first, I thought publishing notecarded convos was a violation anywhere, but I see how it works now
Jesse Linden: to moderate them
Prokofy Neva: yes I can certainly see that and I agreed to the TOS and I've always felt I've abided by them
Jesse Linden: you have but
Prokofy Neva: what I didn't understand is how everyone else could avoid getting nailed for violating them
Jesse Linden: for the most part
Prokofy Neva: and that made me become more vigorous in my poists
Jesse Linden: you are very good at skirting the edges of the TOS
Prokofy Neva: I do get it now that I have to take it to my blog and that is how they fight, off campus
Jesse Linden: and not doing anything to get yoruself in trouble
Prokofy Neva: Jesse I'm not doing that to be tricky or to be malicious
Prokofy Neva: I just honestly write what I think, in a context which I thought was more open than Stratics
Prokofy Neva: if it is assessed as skirting the TOS, well then I guess I will just not post then and go to my blog
Jesse Linden: you are engaging in a lot of interpersonal battles
Jesse Linden: especiallyt with peopel like stoneself karuma etc
Jesse Linden: that have nothing whatsopeverr
Jesse Linden: to do with the topic of the thread
Jesse Linden: you do post lots of useful discussion
Jesse Linden: but its mitigated byu the interpersonal battles
Jesse Linden: that are extremely disruptive to the forum in general
Prokofy Neva: Stoneself came to my lot in the game to attack me weeks ago because he holds the point of view that is anti-commerce
Jesse Linden: i dont care
Prokofy Neva: interpersonal battles happen mainly because of my effort to fight back against attacks originating from them against me
Prokofy Neva: yes I realize you can't care because you job is to be above the fray
Prokofy Neva: and I have absorbed the message that yes, I need to take the issues to my blog like everyone else does
Jesse Linden: exactlt
Jesse Linden: y
Prokofy Neva: Stoneself can tell me to shove it up my ass in a PG zone with you sitting here, feeling a sense of impunity but I AR's him and I would report that on my blog not the forums -- just to take a little example
Jesse Linden: i know you know the rules and you are very experienced
Jesse Linden: in forums etc
Prokofy Neva: I honestly do not malicious skirt the TOS
Jesse Linden: so when you are manipulating
Prokofy Neva: I came on these forums from STratics which is much more repressive, believe me
Jesse Linden: the TOS guidelines
Prokofy Neva: and I was amazed that you could call people a fucktard and many people did that routinely -- I learned that word here
Jesse Linden: i dont think you are innocent
Jesse Linden: its a good word
Jesse Linden: ha
Prokofy Neva: I'm not a person who deliberatey manipulates on the forums
Prokofy Neva: I see all the tactics now as I hvae learned to see them
Jesse Linden: you cannot call anyone a fucktard on our forums thgo
Prokofy Neva: like asking a rhetorical question in a general way meant for an individua
Prokofy Neva: but people did it for months, I watched them do it, I learned the word, then I did it
Prokofy Neva: Pendari called me a fucking wanker
Prokofy Neva: 3 months ago I wouldn't hvae AR'd her
Prokofy Neva: I didn't erealize that's how the system worked
Prokofy Neva: now I play that game too and reach for the little button
Jesse Linden: thats fine
Jesse Linden: there is the perception that peope can attack you with impunity
Prokofy Neva: so you have a forum full of really dysfunctional people just informing on each other like in the Soviet Union with the KGB
Jesse Linden: and we are working toi change that
Prokofy Neva: yes that is what is happening
Jesse Linden: last weekendc you were not the only person suspended
Jesse Linden: but if you are suspended, prokofy, that doesnt mean you should be right back on teh forums with your alt
Jesse Linden: continuing the same arguments as your suspended acct
Jesse Linden: how do you think that makes us look?
Prokofy Neva: OK , I just saw everyone else doing that and Robin herself said they treated alts with a clean slate
Prokofy Neva: Lindhar Lehane and his 5-6 alts are on their constantly, even talking to each other to boost each other
Jesse Linden: a policy mistake on our part
Jesse Linden: i dont know who that is
Prokofy Neva: well I think it's good to treat alts with a clean slate and Robin made it clear that the alts then have to behave
Jesse Linden: i think in theory that is not a bad idea at all
Jesse Linden: but you yourself totally abused it
Prokofy Neva: and I would have behaved for the sake of remaining on the forums except that people pubished this libel that I as a plagiarist and I really had to set the record straight on that
Jesse Linden: ha
Prokofy Neva: Merwan Marker accused me on the forums of committing a RL crime
Prokofy Neva: you say "ha' but that is the kind of thing that loses tenants and business and harms me
Prokofy Neva: it's libel
Prokofy Neva: it's the wrong identity, from a google witchunt
Jesse Linden: i understandbut its what i told you in the email
Prokofy Neva: I can send you the post, it's atrocious, and yet it stands, I have no recourse, can't even rebut it
Jesse Linden: its counterproductive for you
Jesse Linden: to keep retaliating and upping the ante
Prokofy Neva: Merwan is still going around refusing to apology and refusing to realize the seriouenss of this
Prokofy Neva: Linden Labs can't do a thing about someone libeling me with a case of mistaken RL info
Prokofy Neva: it doesn't fit the TOS
Jesse Linden: right
Prokofy Neva: it could even occur however due to the no-action on the original RL disclosure
Prokofy Neva: and mind you I make these points realizing that on the Internet nobody really has privacy
Prokofy Neva: but there are serious problems with the third-party sites
Prokofy Neva: are you aware of just how much info Nexcom, anshechung.com, secondserver.com gather in order to do business with avs in here?
Jesse Linden: gather what?
Prokofy Neva: any one of them can block a player they don't like from many goods, services, lands, in SL just because they don't like them
Prokofy Neva: they gather, keys, e-mails, IP addresses, sometimes that leads to an ISP, they gather everything they can, usually just for commercial purposes
Prokofy Neva: but that is also effectively used to block out people when they don't like them, without them having signed the TOS that LL has
Prokofy Neva: that's why Cristiano can publish libel about me on his site, but then block me from his site to rebut it
Prokofy Neva: not that you can care
Prokofy Neva: but that is why I raised the issue which Robin seemed to concede about third-party sites and privacy
Jesse Linden: concede?
Prokofy Neva: honestly I don't raise this for myself but for the principle of the thing since my own privacy is in tatters
Prokofy Neva: on the forums she said in the thread about Cristian's snapzilla that she would look at the issue of people's RL e-mails giong to him
Prokofy Neva: they come out of the game automatically on the UI as you send the pics
Prokofy Neva: he says he strips them out
Prokofy Neva: Ok, but he still maintains the ability to block av names, IP addresses, etc as a means to block people from his site and does exercise this
Prokofy Neva: conversely he can also just gather all that data and while he may make only benign issues of it or may merely discard it it is a problem to me when he hasn't signed the TOS, him being an LL partner
Prokofy Neva: you may find this an abstract matter, but you wouldn't if you RL info was published on his site, AND you were libeled with the WRONG RL info
Prokofy Neva: anyway I made the point you get it, it's just the context for the forums
Prokofy Neva: I understand what you need and I will refrain from posting in any manner that appears to skirt the TOS
Prokofy Neva: in the mean time I hope that mods have acquired better tools and a better grip on the need to enforce the TOS in an even-handed way
Jesse Linden: right
Prokofy Neva: to prevent something escalating like this -- a 3-day ban of Nolan back in april could have prevented it all
Jesse Linden: hmm
Prokofy Neva: It's the sense of impunity that they all share that emboldens them to keep engaging in the most vicious attacks
Prokofy Neva: look at the kind of hatemail I get at RL e-mail
Jesse Linden: i can only imagine
Prokofy Neva: Jesse, I'm not afraid. I will try to cooperate with you and other Lindens as best as I can but at the end of the day
Prokofy Neva: if you do not have a place for people like me critical of the very monster you have created in the FIC-type phenomena, you won't grow
Prokofy Neva: I have way way more invested in this world than they do in terms of money and land and time
Prokofy Neva: if that counts as nothing and can be expelled over criticism it sends a terrible signal
Prokofy Neva: it's a damper on people who are of the non-tekkie and non-utopianist type which I hope you wanted in this game
Prokofy Neva: too
Prokofy Neva: sry my daughter's turtle escaped from his box brb

 

CHAT WITH JESSE LINDEN RE: PERMABAN FROM FORUMS 6/21/2005

Jesse Linden: (Saved Tue Jun 21 14:13:16 2005) why are you sending out a notecard with my private forum message to you?
Jesse Linden: (Saved Tue Jun 21 14:13:38 2005) you are just going to get yourself in more trouble, i'm confused...
Prokofy Neva: I don't know what "notecard" this is in reference to, I"m not aware that I have "sent out" any n otecards.
Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
Prokofy Neva: Jesse, I do not need any more threats to "get myself in trouble". Please stop. I am not "trying to do something". I have spoken to Hamlet Linden about my banning, he may do a piece. He is talking to Lindens about that. Speak to him if you have any concer
Second Life: User not online - message will be stored and delivered later.
Jesse Linden: there was a nbotecard passed around of my private forum message to you
Jesse Linden: who else would have access to that ?
Prokofy Neva: What notecard is this, and what does it say, and who are you getting it from?
Jesse Linden: i got three IM's over the weekjend
Jesse Linden: 'i thought you should know this is being sent around etc.'....
Prokofy Neva: Well Jesse, if I show it to one person, and they send it all around, not much I can do about that.
Jesse Linden: hmm
Prokofy Neva: What is it you wish me to do about it?
Jesse Linden: dont pass that  around
Prokofy Neva: I remember sending this to Robin Linden
Jesse Linden: and who else...?
Jesse Linden: obviously robin wouldnt b e giving that out
Prokofy Neva: I dno't recall sending it to anyone else, I didn't send it out to all the tabloids Jesse
Jesse Linden: it obviously looks like you are trying to be vindictive or something
Prokofy Neva: It's not a message in the game, as you can see, it is from the forums itself
Prokofy Neva: I am not sending this all over the place, I'm looking at what I talked to Hamlet about now and I did not send it to him in fact
Prokofy Neva: I don't see why this issomething about me looking vindictive
Jesse Linden: c'mon now
Prokofy Neva: I am not sending this around
Jesse Linden: thats what it looks like
Jesse Linden: i personally dont really care
Jesse Linden: but i think its odd
Prokofy Neva: Well who are these three people sending IMs? I definitely didn't send it to any 3 people
Prokofy Neva: I recall sending it specifically to Robin while talking to her
Prokofy Neva: because it contains a threat of banishment for SL, and it did not sound like any due process along the way.
Jesse Linden: a ha
Prokofy Neva: inf act I never got any 14 day banning I went from 7 days to permanent banning
Jesse Linden: the truth comes out...
Prokofy Neva: the truth comes out? there's no secret, I gave it to Robin and asked her about it
Prokofy Neva: you said my account would be reviewd but you didn't say any process
Jesse Linden: robin obviously is not going to pass that around
Prokofy Neva: so when I heard nothing after a week I asked her, what can I expect?
Prokofy Neva: well I am not passing it around either Jesse
Jesse Linden: ok
Prokofy Neva: honestly, you know me better than that
Jesse Linden: do i ?
Prokofy Neva: if I wanted to put this in the Herald, it would have been in the herald by now geez
Prokofy Neva: well I should hope you know my intentions are sincere, and I am not trying to "get away" withj things and be intentionally "bad"
Prokofy Neva: It seemed to me that you told me on Monday morning that my post was objectionable about the prom queen
Prokofy Neva: I said ok, it didn't seem so terrible, but I didn't put anytihng more after that
Prokofy Neva: next thing I know I have a permanent banning, no 14 days after the 7 days
Prokofy Neva: and even the 7 days don't have any indication of WHICH post
Jesse Linden: well, i was very confused as to why you would possibly resort to sending around a private notecard
Prokofy Neva: but it's ok Jesse, do what you ahve to do, I cannot be part of those forums anymore, that's for sure
Prokofy Neva: I am not even going to appeal this banning through the regular system of appeals
Prokofy Neva: I don't want to be in a game where my free speech will lead to my loss of my land and all my projects, that's wrong
Prokofy Neva: I have not done anything wrong with your card that I"m aware of, I recall giving it to Robin, I don't believe I gave it to Hamlet but I did tell him about it
Prokofy Neva: I don't think he's going to wind up getting permission to write this piece anyway
Jesse Linden: well it got leaked somehow
Prokofy Neva: I am honstly trying to think if I gave it to anyone else
Jesse Linden: it doesnt really matter, whatever
Prokofy Neva: I did not send it out to any 3 people that's for sure, I don't know who these people are
Prokofy Neva: or why they are raising it -- isn't it old news? I don't get it
Jesse Linden: it was brought up a few days ago
Jesse Linden: i have been out of the office
Jesse Linden: yes it is old news
Jesse Linden: but if you had done that on purpose
Prokofy Neva: well then what is the point about it? I'm already permanently banned, aren't you satisfied now?
Jesse Linden: i would have to do something about it
Prokofy Neva: you have made good on your threat and gotten your way, so I don't get it.
Jesse Linden: dont you think
Jesse Linden: ?
Prokofy Neva: I honestly don't understand what you are driving at Jesse.
Jesse Linden: never mind, prokofy, its ok
Prokofy Neva: You threatened me with banishment, even from Second Life. You got your way as far as the forums.
Prokofy Neva: Now I don't even dare protest even a huge Linden bridge across 3 sims without feearing I will be booted from the game.
Prokofy Neva: SO you have gotten your way, now what is the point?
Prokofy Neva: I honestly did not try to make a fool of you people or flaunt you, I did what I not only throught was right
Prokofy Neva: I did what I thought you would *understand*
Prokofy Neva: I honestly thoguht you would "get it"
Jesse Linden: get what ?
Prokofy Neva: you would start moderating more equally and stop playing favorites
Prokofy Neva: but you won't, because you wil only work on the AR system
Prokofy Neva: and the AR system itself is an insidious one and one I can't endorse and participate in
Prokofy Neva: not the way it is misused as a tool of revenge by a clique of people on the forums
Prokofy Neva: I thought you would see that and do something about it
Prokofy Neva: I don't see why you have to have my head, feed my head to them, and then make a draconian new policy
Jesse Linden: you werent the only person disciplined
Prokofy Neva: I'm the only one permananetly banned from the forums and the only one in the police banner
Jesse Linden: prokofy, i have no personal stake in this
Prokofy Neva: and that's enable dthem all to gloat and do a victory dance
Jesse Linden: im just an employee
Prokofy Neva: well you administered a threat of permanent banishment from SL to me , Jesse, on behalf of the company
Prokofy Neva: I realize that's your job
Jesse Linden: and this is taking up too much of my time as it is
Prokofy Neva: but it bewilders me
Prokofy Neva: I don't understand honestly what I have done wrong in the world itself
Jesse Linden: nothing as far as i knnow
Prokofy Neva: and on the forums I trusted that anything I said there would not be permanently banishing
Prokofy Neva: well but now you're saying "You distributed a card"
Prokofy Neva: what will it be tomorrow?
Jesse Linden: basically i leaked the fact that we are going to tie together forum discipline
Jesse Linden: and SL discipline
Prokofy Neva: Oh
Jesse Linden: with that notecard
Prokofy Neva: I see
Prokofy Neva: I didn't realize that
Jesse Linden: er i mean message originally
Jesse Linden: it just makes more sense
Prokofy Neva: I took it to mean back then not a leak of policy
Prokofy Neva: but just a personal action on me
Jesse Linden: no
Prokofy Neva: that you felt I was over the top by coming back on alts
Jesse Linden: you were
Prokofy Neva: well I felt it was justified when you did nothing about people releasing my RL info and libeling me with the wrong RL
Prokofy Neva: that I felt was so horrible, so unjust, that I had to fight on my own if you would not
Prokofy Neva: you just have never undrestood that side of it
Prokofy Neva: you have no idea what it is like to be viciously harassed in this fashion by these people without defense, without action by Lindens
Prokofy Neva: i fyou see what I actually posted about when I came back as alts, that's the issue
Prokofy Neva: Cristiano and his site, which outs my RL, outs alts, and slanders me with the wrong RL
Prokofy Neva: then blows it back to the SL forums where everyone does the same thing with impunity
Prokofy Neva: that has always been so shocking and horrible to me I never got why it led nowhere for you, but it's because I didn't AR it fast enough, and often enough
Prokofy Neva: so that's it Jesse, it's not about flautning and teasing and baiting you it's about defending myself
Prokofy Neva: and I didn't know it was a leak of policy and I dont' get any of this honestly
Prokofy Neva: I thought you were capable of implementing that policy of linkage even back then
Jesse Linden: ok i see
Prokofy Neva: Jesse, I'd like to understand what's up here, really. You first threatened me with banishment, then later you came back and said I got off lightly becuse this new policy was not applied to me, I came in under the wire.
Prokofy Neva: OK, well then am I now beholden to you in some way?
Prokofy Neva: Because I don't get the rules of that game, I don't know you very well, I don't know what you agenda is, and I just saw you as someone administering policy you were told to administer, not someone to make deals with.
Jesse Linden: exactly
Jesse Linden: i can make no deals
Prokofy Neva: well then I don't understand what this "you got off ligthly" stuff is
Jesse Linden: because if the new policy was retroactive
Prokofy Neva: if you have a new policy, and you didn't apply it to me, am I supposed to be grateful?
Jesse Linden: you would have been banned from SL
Jesse Linden: as well as the forums
Jesse Linden: you are not supposed to be anything
Prokofy Neva: because I d not think the forums were equally police, and I do believe I'm a victm of selec tive prosecution
Jesse Linden: i probably shouldnt have said that at all
Prokofy Neva: well Jesse do you realize what a bad idea that is?
Jesse Linden: i was trying to be candid with you
Prokofy Neva: to ban people who make this type of huge investment -- why?
Prokofy Neva: because they try do defend themselves from libel and slander from a vicious group of mediocrities on the forums?
Prokofy Neva: you know EXACTLY what I mean
Jesse Linden: prokofy im not the right person to bring this up with
Jesse Linden: im pretty low on the totem pole here at linden lab
Prokofy Neva: I'm not intrested in bringing it up with anyone
Jesse Linden: you want to appeal
Jesse Linden: to the higher powers
Jesse Linden: if you wantr
Prokofy Neva: No I told you will not be appealing through the regular system
Prokofy Neva: to do so would be to validate that system
Prokofy Neva: I'm considering just asking for executive pardon from Philip with a request to also annul the new linkage policy
Prokofy Neva: there are enough players and even Lindens that oppose that
Prokofy Neva: so I may do that but I'm trying to see if I even want to go that route because I dno't want to be on those forums

 

You: Wow
You: I had no idea of the existence of the Temple of Truth and Light
Davy Flytrap's Jukebox whispers: 1: Dr. Yo
Davy Flytrap's Jukebox whispers: 2: Fantasy film Soundtrack
Davy Flytrap's Jukebox whispers: 3: Dance Stream
Sherry Case is online
Jesse Linden: prokofy!
Jesse Linden: you found me in my lair
You: I shamelessly stalked you
You: and you were hiding your secret temple from me all this time
You: I could have been enlightened
Jesse Linden: yes
Jesse Linden: I am working on a new sect
Jesse Linden: in SL
You: ok
You: is it antithetical to the Cult of the True Linden?
Jesse Linden: I should be on my resi account
You: Precisely
Jesse Linden: what is the cult of the true linden?
You: If you have to ask, Jesse, you are not in it.
Jesse Linden: hi everyone
You: I've already said too much.
You: HI Pegasus
Pegasus Ziskey whickers and waves a wing to everyone...
Jesse Linden: i so rarely have visitors
You: Do you manage the community community or like just certain partso f the community and what does the community mean?
Jesse Linden: i didnt even have a chance to strighten up
Pegasus Ziskey chuckles.. "Sorry about that.. I was flying in the area and saw this place... ;>
You: Like I noticed now they introduce Pathfinder as commmunity manager of educational stuff
Crystal Lameth is offline
Jesse Linden: well, prokofy
Jesse Linden: the group of us : pathfinderm jeska, blue, myself
nimrod Yaffle gave you Classic Linden Telehub (Waterhead).
nimrod Yaffle gave you Sandbox sim sign.
Jesse Linden: are all community managers
Jesse Linden: at LL
You: but what do you do tho?
You: i mean Jeska does volunteers I know
Jesse Linden: right
You: arre there portfolios?
Jesse Linden: I have about 20 projects on tmy plate
Jesse Linden: I can rattle off for you
You: yeah rattle and roll Jesse
You: if you're not busy
Jesse Linden: Im working on developing distribution channels for resident created media
Jesse Linden: namely machinima and podcasts and the like
Pegasus Ziskey raises a wing and asks, "What is this place here? Did I come at a bad time?
Jesse Linden: setting up channels at itunes
Jesse Linden: and whotnot
You: it's just Jesse's Temple of Truth and Understanding
You: or um
You: temple of
You: something
Jesse Linden: Hi Pegasus
Jesse Linden: feel free to hang out while I give prokofy a tour of my workday
You: oh well I have resident created media
Jesse Linden: submit it!
Jesse Linden: another huge project
You: press
Jesse Linden: is revamping the educational events support system
You: delivers on demand
You: oh well I thought that was Pathfinder's beat?
You: but ok
Walker Spaight is online
Jesse Linden: pathfinder handles RL education
Jesse Linden: in SL
You: OMG
Jesse Linden: I do SL education
Jesse Linden: in SL
You: THERE IS SUCH A BIG DIFFERENT YES
You: *slaps head*
You: ok keep oging
Jesse Linden: so we are considering developing a Univserity system
Jesse Linden: partialy subsidized by LL
Pegasus Ziskey smiles, his tail flicking from side to side.. "That would be a neet idea.. UoLL ;>
Jesse Linden: perhaps eventually offering ceritfication in various SL
Jesse Linden: skills
You: oh dear
Lillia Lehane is online
You: sigh
Jesse Linden: this is all in the early stages of planning
Jesse Linden: before you go running off to your blog
Jesse Linden: anf get me in trouble
You: anything to drive a bigger stake between the differences among amateurs and professionals!
You: no ok
You: off the record
Jesse Linden: our help docs
You: Chatham House Rules
Jesse Linden: are less than amazing
Jesse Linden: encouraging more skill sharing in SL
Jesse Linden: is the goal here
You: They're sub-optimal.
You: encouraging more elitism
Jesse Linden: I do a lot of the community website maintenance
You: with your certifications, and Jeska's army of 1500, you'll be unstoppable
Jesse Linden: and am working to help make it more useful
Jesse Linden: if you have suggestions there by all menas
Jesse Linden: means
Jesse Linden: feel free to email
Jesse Linden: me
You: Jesse
Jesse Linden: I just finished getting those economic stats up
You: Have you thought of the social ramifications of what it means to certify some people and not others?
Jesse Linden: with our webdev guys
You: Some people don't need to sit through your lecturse on architecture
You: are they going to be less cool?
Jesse Linden: no
Frogg Marlowe is online
Jesse Linden: its only a thought
Jesse Linden: as people seek to find others for help on projects
Jesse Linden: im not sure a 'certification' process is the best idea
You: well I'd like to hear about the other 15 things Jesse
Jesse Linden: yet either
You: but I guess I want to ask: what about support of business?
Jesse Linden: I work on a lot of internal stuff
You: some contact among Lidnens who answers basic questions even sometimes like: "are you really going to sell Lindens?"
Jesse Linden: that you dont get to see inworld as much
You: yeah that's the scary part
Jesse Linden: whcih is why im generally less visible than pathfinder
Jesse Linden: and jeska
You: Yes I realize you have a plan and you're implementing it.
Doubledown Tandino is offline
Jesse Linden: one thing
Jesse Linden: is communications
Jesse Linden: which is my background
Jesse Linden: we've been trying for a while
Jesse Linden: to find effective ways
Jesse Linden: to get news and info inworld
Jesse Linden: most people dont read the forums
Jesse Linden: the MOTD is the only surefire bet
Jesse Linden: to reach everyone
You: I know that's why I started my InfoNut
You: yes well I had a comment about your MOTD and everything else today on Terra Nova
You: and I wonder whether you'll auction off those blue-screen drop downs
You: : )
Jesse Linden: heh
Jesse Linden: good idea!
Jesse Linden: how much are you willing to pay
You: imagine the screaming
Jesse Linden: we thought * jokingly *
You: I'd have to think about it, classifieds already kill me
Jesse Linden: about auctioning off advertising during login
Ravenglass Rentals in Patagonia $1500: A rental has expired.
Jesse Linden: screen
You: yeah I like that
Jesse Linden: you have to stare at coca-cola
Jesse Linden: while waiting for login
You: "this session brought to you by Ravenglass Rentals! Set home to here!"
You: yeah I'm so there
You: let me find the link
You: discussing broadcasting in new media
You: and SL too
You: brb
Jesse Linden: k
You: http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2006/05/public_media_pu.html
nimrod Yaffle gave you 3 Linden Telehubs and Sandbox sign! v2.
Eloise Pasteur is offline
You: Cory's alerady doing a smackdown of me there LOL
Jesse Linden: cory's been on a tear recently
You: he's calling me Perkofy now on his blog
You: lol
Jesse Linden: havent been able to read everything
Jesse Linden: he's been saying
Neal Nomad is online
You: yes Cory is blogging up a storm I see
You: well the blogosphere
You: you know
You: hard to get the bills paid on that
Jesse Linden: well, in terms of public broadcasting and democratizing media
Jesse Linden: m very much interested in what we can do in SL
You: well I hope you bring back SLTV
Jesse Linden: me too
You: and there are easier ways to do machinima than now
Lillia Lehane is offline
Jesse Linden: i still think its an idea that will have its time
Tiara Cheeky accepted your inventory offer.
Jesse Linden: its a matter of some resident iniative stepping up to the plate
Jesse Linden: if not, maybe ill doit
You: well Jesse, I do my poor best with samizdat not being technically inclined
Sherry Case is offline
You: but I did commission that script to break the InfoNet monopoly
DejaVu Skye is offline
You: so I have like 50 locations to automatically receive my one-page newsletter I try to put out like every 3 days
You: just headlines
You: and people contribute to it, it's a two way object that distributes and takes too
nimrod Yaffle gave you Classic Linden Telehub (Clanis)- small.
Jesse Linden: nice
Neal Nomad is offline
You: but of course that's just samizdat
Jesse Linden: if someone created a nightly SL news segment
You: the real media market is in getting into videos
You: since peopel watch videos constantly
Jesse Linden: and looped it in a quicktime stream
Jesse Linden: it would go over gangbusters
You: but they don't want some boring talking heads
Jesse Linden: yes and no
You: yes nightly news wuold be great
You: if it was short, really punchy
You: then have the docudramas develop eventually
You: yes I love the idea
You: but it has many obstacles including the forums skeptics threatened by it
You: we talked about this remember?
Jesse Linden: yes
You: I still think traveling focus groups among communities is a way to address the social tensions and alienation and griefing issues
You: but you don't have manpower for that I guess
Jesse Linden: traveling to where?
You: honestly the army Jeska has, and the uselessness of it
You: to where people live
You: on sims
Jesse Linden: in RL:
Jesse Linden: ?
You: no
Jesse Linden: ha
Jesse Linden: ok
You: geez RL
You: bleh
You: lol
You: I mean like go to the Furest, or Ansheland or Hiroland or whatever
You: go to all the places hwere people are and talk to them there
You: walkabout Lindens
Jesse Linden: as opposed to the community roundtable discussions
You: well those are limited
Jesse Linden: and so are our resources as youve pointed out
You: and still not free of deliberate griefing
Jesse Linden: we are aware of most of the seriou sissues
You: hmmm
nimrod Yaffle gave you Classic Linden Telehub (Clanis)- TINY!.
Jesse Linden: there is only so much we can do given 75 employees
Can't create object because
the parcel is full.
Jesse Linden: at the moment
You: ok well my question remains:
Jesse Linden: you guys love to paint us as oblivious
You: which Linden is there to deal with businesses?
Jesse Linden: but its not so ;)
You: well Jesse
You: you're not visible
You: you went through this little surge of activity
Jesse Linden: thats why om working on communications
Jesse Linden: tools
Jesse Linden: to fix that
You: where Pathfinder would be at his desk at Ambleside and Brent would be building and Bub would be sort of bobbing around with his underwear group
You: but
You: now you hidei n the Temple of Understanding in Hera
You: lol
Jesse Linden: ha
You: Jesse listen seriously'
Jesse Linden: this is one of 13 or so open windows on my desktop
You: it should not take Philip Linden 6 days to get on the forums
Jesse Linden: i try to keep it open all day
Jesse Linden: 9 - 6
Jesse Linden: M - F
You: and say in fact they don't plan to sell the Linden yet
Jesse Linden: to answer IM's as they come in
You: it shouldn't even take 2 days for it to be clarified
You: people shouldn't have to lose hundreds of RL dollars while the Lindex crashes
You: there should just be some grown-up who fields questions
You: not Philip personally
Jesse Linden: ok
You: somebodyu who thinks about what it means to the markets
You: that suddenly in the next patch, thousands of island parcels are going to be able to be sold in the client
You: I just neve know if anyone bothers to think about the world itself
You: you all think about just what push media you can do
SeXXXy Bliss is offline
Jesse Linden: nah
Jesse Linden: thats what im talking about
Jesse Linden: when i say you assume we are oblivious
Jesse Linden: abotu such things
You: ok where's the pedal hitting the metal?
You: how are you gathering the info?
Jesse Linden: we don't have a scott mclellan
You: and where is the interchange
Jesse Linden: character
Jesse Linden: to sit there and get pelted
Jesse Linden: all day
You: I still think that's exactly what you need
Jesse Linden: ha
You: in fact you need guys with crisp yuppie lacross shirts
You: sitting on a sim
You: and being tech support inworld
Jesse Linden: so you really do think we should act like a federal government
Keely Lawson is offline
You: with the capacity to actually see what's hapepning on your own computer visually
You: I mean you made this 3-d streaming thingie
You: and you don't use it
Dmitri Polonsky is offline
You: well Jesse since you ARE the federal government ALREADY
You: I'd rather you be a BETTER FORM of it
Cocoanut Koala is online
You: or let it go
You: I mean, when you have reformed group tools
You: can you make a group with some of us in it as officers to get rid of stray prim junk off Gov Linden land on our sims?
You: just to give you one tiny example
You: you're willing to let the zealots run and police the events list
Crystal Lameth is online
You: and even have notions of resmods removing content from events lists
You: but could I remove a crashed bike from Gov Linden land? no
You: lol
RacerX Gullwing is online
You: I don't know how to describe what I mean
You: a small business administration
You: but never mind
You: it's not what you want
KayLia Carroll is online
You: I still don't get what you mean by not being oblivious
You: you claim to know all, see all
Jesse Linden: no, not at all
Jesse Linden: as philip says
Jesse Linden: all the time
Jesse Linden: there is no way
You: well do you have a big bank of computer screens at the lab
Jesse Linden: we can possibly know what goes on all the time
Jesse Linden: everywhere in SL
You: like a supermarket security system or an apartment building
Jesse Linden: but
Jesse Linden: when making any policy decisions
You: where there are screens showing like "ehre's the action at Ahern" or "here's the scene at Hera"
You: does it pan around like that?
Jesse Linden: or designing features
Jesse Linden: we carefull consider the effects on the community
Jesse Linden: and the world
Jesse Linden: security screens would be unscalable
You: I dno't mean security screens Jesse
Jesse Linden: not to mention horrendously boring
You: I'm not ADVOCATING THAT
You: I'm asking HOW you keep up
You: HOW you get a flow?
You: the forums?
You: the abuse reports?
You: what is the instrument by which you know the world?
Jesse Linden: right
You: if there is no big security camera bank
Jesse Linden: all of that
You: how do you get the flow?
Jesse Linden: I read a lot of stuff
Jesse Linden: every day
Jesse Linden: includin your blog
You: well that's hardly a way to know the world, it's all good
You: but I mean all the people's issues on their sims
You: not just the chattering classes
Jesse Linden: thats why we have liaisons
Jesse Linden: mentors
Jesse Linden: live helpers etc
You: that's what worries me
You: a horrible funnel
You: awful awful
Jesse Linden: if anything we have tooo many
Jesse Linden: channels
You: way too many of those yes
Jesse Linden: coming in
You: not enough liaisions
You: but too many of those others
Jesse Linden: torley does a great summary
Jesse Linden: of issues of the week
You: bingo
You: I knew you had a Tass blue line
Jesse Linden: tass?
You: the Party would have Tass prepare a daily memo
You: Telegraph Agency of the Soviet Union, TASS
You: so if an issue or event could get into the blue memo going to the Politburo, it was acknowledged
You: so Torley makes a memo
You: and we all have to then figure how to be noticed by Torley?
You: well ok
You: a limited window, that
You: of course you have the IRC channel
Winter Phoenix is offline
You: Jesse, I gtg deed TVs and stuff now I appreciate your time you're more busy than me
You: I just urge you to go real slow on that certification idea, it could be a horror
You: also just to think -- which Linden cares about land and busienss really?
You: Lee Linden is a server technician
Winter Phoenix is online
You: the concierges care only about the private islands
You: if you have someone who could care more about the mainland
You: but I realize that's probably not very interesting
bboop Ayoob is offline
Jesse Linden: no
Jesse Linden: isnt that exaclty what robin does
Jesse Linden: everyday?
You: I dno't know I haven't talked to her in weeks
You: lol
You: don't you all go to conferences a lot?
Jesse Linden: yes
Jesse Linden: its a great way to pass the workweek
You: oh actually she wrote me yesterday commiserating about a grief attack I had that was really yucky
Jesse Linden: and get nice coffee mugs
You: yeah
Honey King is online
You: I have to sit through the UNGASS coming up soon for days, it will be horridly boring
You: I wonder if I could turn SL on during that
You: it might be a little freaky
You: somebody should do a parallel SL conference on AIDS to the General Assembly's special session LOL
Jesse Linden: what is UNGASS
You: but dull stuff really
You: UN General Assembly Special Session
You: it's a killer
You: boring wise
Jesse Linden: ah
You: it's what you do out in the hallways that can be interesting
You: they have wireless hot spots now
You: lol
You: if those economic lindens
You: like a trio of them
You: Lawrence, T-Bone, Vashudha whatsis whatever
You: the ones that work on that stuff
You: would take eevn one meeting
You: that wuold be good
ELLiebob Bean is offline
You: not a town hall maybe that sounds so august
You: but a community round table
You: a panel
You: actually
You: a half day conference in world with panels LOL
You: ok TV time
Jesse Linden: im sure that will happen at the SLCC
You: I'm not going to that
You: I ddin't ilke the way it was done last time, didn't like the organizers usurping it again
You: and I see it has the same bland, alcohol-filled, fanboyz flavour to it
You: another workshop on branding by Fizik
You: a Cheech and Chong show by Cory and Philip
You: Jesse, if I have thousands of dollars to spend RL, I'd spend it I duno
You: on an island in SL
You: LOL
You: later!
Lillia Lehane is online
You: does the house fit?
You: seems like it does
Tiara Cheeky: yes i made sure
You: ok set the items to $0
Group Land URL Audio changer: Parcel URL set to: yes i made sure
You: non copy but original
Sue Stonebender is offline
Tiara Cheeky: will the radio work
You: set this screen to $0 and click off original not copy
You: like i said, I have to buy it from you for $0 to deed it to the group
Tiara Cheeky: how do i sell it to you
You: right-click on the object
You: pick EDIT out of the pie
You: go to GENERAL
You: find FOR SALE box and click it off
You: find ORIGINAL box and xlick
You: put it at $0 not $10

JESSE LINDEN OFFICE HOUR 2005

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[16:23]  Johnny Ming is Online
[16:24]  Arthur Fermi is Online
[16:25]  Larry Pixel is Offline
[16:25]  Arthur Fermi is Offline
[16:25]  Cindy Crimson: right
[16:25]  Arthur Fermi is Online
[16:25]  Jesse Linden: or efficient in the long run
[16:25]  Rainbow Drake: But often there are more than five in a day.
[16:25]  Lyra Blackthorne: I was concerned with something I heard...that the poster of event had to be present for entire event...true?
[16:26]  Kamael Xevious: So do we... but we can stack them... "Pride Festival continues with... and then list 2 events under one heading."
[16:26]  Jefferson Psaltery: jesse..does LL really have the manpower now to solve probs such as this..without a pinch in the budget
[16:26]  Rainbow Drake: (Or, something changes, and we get caught by the event edit counting as a separate posting!)
[16:26]  Jefferson Psaltery: seems like the help system strained the staff...but if they've hired enuf ppl..that's great
[16:26]  Jesse Linden: Jefferson, I don't think using our resources that way is a good idea for you or us really
[16:27]  Jesse Linden: which doesn't mean its impossible
[16:27]  Franko Corleone: When will the labs do something about casino's operating in PG areas..as it is they are a blight on the grid..now they are invading PG areas...m,aybe Mr Adam Reuter could do a nice story on that
[16:27]  Jesse Linden: i think we can come up with something better
[16:27]  Jefferson Psaltery: well, nothing like consistency in policy:))
[16:27]  CyFishy Traveler: They do have some rather more significant fish to fry.
[16:27]  Jesse Linden: ok, I agree that flagging events
[16:27]  Jesse Linden: would be a goodsolution
[16:27]  Rainbow Drake: Kamael, NCI cannot "stack" our events. We have five different locations and counting. Our events are spread all over the grid.
[16:27]  Jesse Linden: and would probably allow us to remove
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: caps on # of events per day
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: yes
[16:28]  Franko Corleone: why cant we have "RECURRING" events
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: right
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: you can
[16:28]  Franko Corleone: :)
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: I think the systems used by Eventful
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: and
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: Upcoming
[16:28]  Franko Corleone: its early in morning for me..and im hoppin mad about cvasinos in PG areas
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: allow for that
[16:28]  Jesse Linden: in a reasonable way
[16:29]  You: One problem I have is the inability to edit the time if I made a mistake, then I'm stuck with holding it or posting other notices that it is changed.
[16:29]  Rainbow Drake: A weekly repeating even would be AWESOME!
[16:29]  You: is that a bug or feature?
[16:29]  Jesse Linden: Prokofy, I believe that is somewhere in between
[16:29]  Jefferson Psaltery: agree
[16:29]  Franko Corleone: we have 12 events daily that recurr every day
[16:30]  Franko Corleone: so we would love that as we only would need to enter it maybe once a week
[16:30]  Franko Corleone: or month
[16:30]  CyFishy Traveler: I'd just pay closer attention to when you post.
[16:30]  Franko Corleone: but churchs are a special case :)
[16:30]  Anna Adamant is Offline
[16:30]  Cindy Crimson: title off
[16:31]  Larry Pixel is Online
[16:31]  Laetizia Coronet: Franko, that's what they keep saying - don't get me started
[16:31]  Jesse Linden: now
[16:31]  Franko Corleone: lol
[16:31]  Jesse Linden: the other direction we could go with here
[16:31]  Jesse Linden: was alluded to earlier
[16:31]  Welcome Mat: Hello and YAYZERAMA... Kermit Halasy, welcome to Watermelinden Land in the Linden Village!
[16:31]  Welcome Mat: Hello and YAYZERAMA... Kermit Halasy, welcome to Watermelinden Land in the Linden Village!
[16:32]  Jesse Linden: which would involve opening up the events data
[16:32]  Sylla Lane gave you Snapshot.
[16:32]  Jesse Linden: more via an API
[16:32]  Laetizia Coronet: API?
[16:32]  Franko Corleone: YES!!!
[16:32]  Jesse Linden: and allowing developers to build their own interface
[16:32]  Jesse Linden: for events
[16:32]  Franko Corleone: a lovely web based "lets fill up 1000 events in an hr job" like google
[16:32]  Jesse Linden: where the service providers themselves can dictate
[16:33]  Davidorban Agnon is Offline
[16:33]  Davidorban Agnon is Online
[16:33]  Jesse Linden: and residents would be free to choose the best events service
[16:33]  Jesse Linden: that fits their needs
[16:33]  CyFishy Traveler: I don't like that idea at ALL
[16:33]  CyFishy Traveler: Consider that my feedback.
[16:33]  Laetizia Coronet: what is an API
[16:33]  Sindy Tsure is wary of that being gamed
[16:33]  Franko Corleone: sounds like another way fopr casino operators to fleece residents yet again
[16:33]  Shelby Hienrichs is Online
[16:33]  Soen Eber: Oh joy. Another. venue. for. spambots. to. spam. whee. thankyou. for. restoring. my. faith. in. Linden. Labs.
[16:34]  Jesse Linden: API An application programming interface (API) is a set of definitions of the ways in which one piece of computer software communicates with another. It is a method of achieving abstraction, usually (but not necessarily) between lower-level and higher-level software.
[16:34]  Laetizia Coronet: whoa... ok thanks
[16:34]  Cindy Crimson: yet another argument in favor of verification :(
[16:34]  Jefferson Psaltery: like dictionaries
[16:34]  Jesse Linden: well, what events systems do you regularly use outside of SL?
[16:35]  Laetizia Coronet: if I get it right you would get a thirrd party in
[16:35]  Rainbow Drake: Jesse, are you suggesting we would all still be posting to the same database, but could use custom-designed interfaces to do so?
[16:35]  Harleen Gretzky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/API
[16:35]  Franko Corleone: opening up the events system to an API based system for posting is in some ways good..however consider the mount of "dodgy" events that could and im sure would be posted using it. same event posted 50 times for same hour...
[16:35]  Rainbow Drake: Or would this lead to a fragmenting of the database?
[16:35]  Jesse Linden: Rainbow, you would use custom-designed interfaces to access the data you have posted
[16:35]  DavidBatty Hathaway: With an API the book people could 'click' a new ad out faster than we could read them.
[16:36]  Jesse Linden: so if you preferred a Digg-type
[16:36]  Franko Corleone: and the inevitable attacks on the system from unruly's
[16:36]  Laetizia Coronet: well Google has that 'more of the same' feature which negates repetitive posting
[16:36]  Jesse Linden: deal
[16:36]  Soen Eber: Even if the api to outside events management DOESN'T get spammed, it would balkinize the events listings
[16:36]  You: I think you have to realize Jesse with the lack of advertising capacity in SL, with the hugely increasing expense of the classifieds ads, with traffic about to be removed from search results which are responsible for sales, events is the place that picks up the slack, and until you can create more avenues for reasonably-priced advertising and events announcements that are free from your rules, you will face constant banging on the events calendar.
[16:36]  Jesse Linden: you could choose that
[16:36]  Alliez Mysterio is Online
[16:36]  Jesse Linden: if you wanted an education-only calendar
[16:36]  Jesse Linden: someone could build one
[16:36]  Franko Corleone: OR
[16:36]  You: Jesse, you already feature education events in a feed on your Linden blog, it's already got a privileged pride of place with thousands of eyeballs, what more does it need?
[16:36]  Jesse Linden: Gotcha, Prokofy, good point
[16:36]  Franko Corleone: you could open up the events system to "ADVERTISING AGENCIES"
[16:37]  Jesse Linden: Im just using education as an example
[16:37]  Jesse Linden: could be anything
[16:37]  CyFishy Traveler: Have to leave . . . keep me appraised of how it turns out.
[16:37]  Franko Corleone: id rather a boost in educational based events than yet another 10,000 casino and strip club "come and lose some more money" events
[16:37]  You: I think you should give up trying to police the events calendar and just ask people to filter, if you don't want your eyes soiled by *ingos, my God, just select "discussion" or "education" and look only at those events and stop having net nanny fits
[16:38]  CyFishy Traveler: I think flagging should be more than enough.
[16:38]  You: Franko, just don't look at them if they don't serve you
[16:38]  You: use the filter
[16:38]  You: that's why it's there
[16:38]  Sindy Tsure: cya, cyfishy
[16:38]  Laetizia Coronet: yeah, flagging sahould do it
[16:38]  Franko Corleone: it would be nice if they were "filtered" out of education and arts all together..but im sure someone has already suggested that
[16:39]  Arthur Fermi is Offline
[16:39]  You: They are Franko, just use your scroll button if a stray one gets in and avoid your eyebleeds
[16:39]  Lyra Blackthorne: Franko it is all personal choice, I have filtered Hare Krishna out. Not everyone wants to see the same things
[16:39]  Foolish Frost is Offline
[16:40]  You: I suggest you add a category called "Religion" as a lot of religious events are flooding "art and culture" now
[16:40]  Sindy Tsure: yes! please add a religion/cult category!
[16:40]  Laetizia Coronet: yeah good one
[16:40]  Franko Corleone: now theres a FINE idea :)
[16:40]  Jesse Linden: there was another thought to simple add more categories
[16:40]  DavidBatty Hathaway: Could we 'Mute' ads by name? So when we recognise that 'Dodgy Bloke' keeps spamming, we can choose to mute his ads on a personal basis or mute by keyword?
[16:40]  Jesse Linden: and remove 'All'
[16:40]  Jesse Linden: what do you think about that ?
[16:40]  Franko Corleone: ahh muting ads another giood idea
[16:40]  You: there's always something somebody won't like, but another person would like, perhaps the Hare Krishna and other interested parties want to see those, you can't filter out stuff you personally don't like just because YOU don't like it
[16:40]  Jefferson Psaltery: that might be a good idea...more categories
[16:40]  Jesse Linden: * simply add more categories....
[16:40]  Soen Eber: Prokofy, if something can be gamed, it will be gamed. There will always be that 5 percent of the population that acts in a predatory way, that irritates the hell out of everyone else and causes them to jump ship when something with better management comes along. Frankly, after years of experience with chat rooms and Usenet groups and blogs and writing boards getting filled with low signal to noise s--- I don't give a damn about your libertarian principles I'm tired of being shouted at by greedsters
[16:40]  You: it has to serve everybody, so just add more categories, use the filter, end of story
[16:40]  Sindy Tsure: i like 'all' for when i'm not sure about the category, jesse
[16:41]  Cindy Crimson: look. once you put something like that in place, these casino/stip clubs owner ops are just going to circumvent it again
[16:41]  You: I don't worry about gaming with the hysterical fastidiousness of most other people here, Soen, I think the solution is to leave the Internet the way it is, and build otuside websites for your select audiences or GROUPS which is how I do it
[16:41]  DavidBatty Hathaway: I meant filter in our own view of the database, on a personal level.
[16:41]  Laetizia Coronet: someting miscellaneous is needed yes
[16:41]  Lyra Blackthorne: I agree with Prokofy
[16:41]  Lyra Blackthorne: flagging, filters and leave alone
[16:41]  Cindy Crimson: no matter how many filters you have Jo Schmo's casino is still going to end up in your search
[16:41]  Franko Corleone: here here
[16:41]  Laetizia Coronet: Maybe a 'Dross' category ;)
[16:42]  Jesse Linden: dross?
[16:42]  Cindy Crimson: junk
[16:42]  Laetizia Coronet: trash, garbish
[16:42]  Harleen Gretzky: What about being able to search events on more than just the first word of the title?
[16:42]  Franko Corleone: rubbish
[16:42]  You: The events calendar should be left alone, it will naturally sort itself out when there are better advertising policies, like signboard opportunities in the WA, and an end to these griefing/extortionist signs on sims, and some kind of rational billboarding policy through SL that regulates them but also PROVIDES them in reasonable amounts and areas, that's why the Events list is filled with cheap advertising
[16:42]  Soen Eber: YES!! have events moved to the dross/junk/trash category when they get voted off the island!
[16:42]  Case Wrangler: Maybe create a category for each of the top-10 words used in group names, except for common words like "the".
[16:42]  Scarlett Qi: Yes, as we can mute a person, it would be nice to be able to mute an advertising group/business/individual in events so they don't appear in our list
[16:42]  Laetizia Coronet: oh that is good!
[16:43]  Rainbow Drake: Harleen, that would be useful, yes.
[16:43]  Laetizia Coronet: a punishment category
[16:43]  You: If you have some a problem with "dross," then don't look at the events, make a group, make an event, and keep your friends apprised of it, that's what I do sometimes because certain time slots are so cluttered even in filters
[16:43]  Franko Corleone: a facility built in to the engine that would allow a series of "keywords" to be included seperatly from those we all place in the description would be the best way to attack the multi word searching
[16:43]  You: Discussion has become even a hard place to be seen in, groups are the answer to your eyebleeds and heart attacks people
[16:43]  Lionila Lightfoot is Online
[16:44]  Cindy Crimson: the only way this will work is if there are eyballs on the listings making decisions. either LL's or residents
[16:44]  Laetizia Coronet: there must be room for everything though
[16:44]  You: Franko, I love how you have these Lindens working all hours to code things to stanch your eyebleeds -- I'd rather they work on stabilizing the basic platform and promised features and take their heavy hand off the Events list and put Jesse to more productive uses like making a truly massly visible TV inside of SL with purchasable advertising time.
[16:44]  You: One we have SLTV reall working with ad space to buy some of this will go away
[16:45]  Laetizia Coronet: Prokofy even in RL I can do wthout TV thanks
[16:45]  Welcome Mat: Hello and YAYZERAMA... Kucinta Moody, welcome to Watermelinden Land in the Linden Village!
[16:45]  Jesse Linden: do you think that an SLTV type thing
[16:45]  Jesse Linden: needs to come from Linden lab though?
[16:46]  Franko Corleone: no
[16:46]  DavidBatty Hathaway: I think the residents can develop that.
[16:46]  Chaley May: When people arrive at Events I think they should have an option to vote how good/relevent the event is.. with so many people arriving and being annoyed that the event was a lie then their rating will fall putting them nearer the bottom of the lists....
[16:46]  Laetizia Coronet: anything with paid ads will not take the load off of events anyway
[16:46]  Cindy Crimson: as soon as the "infrastructure" can support it
[16:46]  You: yes because you have the capacity and most resident things either will not at this juncture, or will make it serve only their commercial needs of their cmopany
[16:46]  Franko Corleone: thers at least 2 i know of doing tv/broadcasting in=world already...its doable
[16:46]  You: public tv has to be federally owned
[16:46]  Soen Eber: Charley, I like that, it works for slashdot
[16:46]  Laetizia Coronet: Charley, events last to short to be affected by ratings
[16:47]  Reuben Millionsofus is Offline
[16:47]  Laetizia Coronet: *too
[16:47]  Franko Corleone: perhaps a quantify of that "public tv has to be owned federally in some countries"
[16:47]  DavidBatty Hathaway: Why does public TV have to be federally owned?
[16:47]  You: that doesn't stop something like RRR from having a private TV developed but something has to be done to broadcast across sims that is run by the federal government
[16:47]  Jesse Linden: Chaley, I think an API would allow an entrepreneurial
[16:47]  Laetizia Coronet: the rat9ng should therefore affect the next event by6 the poster
[16:47]  Jesse Linden: resident to build such a system
[16:47]  Cindy Crimson: umm getting away from the topic?
[16:47]  You: because we can see what's happening right now as the Lidnens auction off the WA experience
[16:47]  You: it's going to be awful
[16:47]  Soen Eber: Lets stay on topic?
[16:47]  Chaley May: but make the ratings continuous so that the results apply to the next few events too.. that would mean they would have to maintain a healthy standard in their advertizing
[16:48]  Laetizia Coronet: yes Chaley
[16:48]  Jesse Linden: right, so why should we reinvent the wheel internally
[16:48]  You: instead of doing a simple thing like allowing both business and non-profits to advertise and recruit from WAs centrally run, they are simply auctioning off the WA tiself and letting private companies with their own commercial interests run it
[16:48]  Jesse Linden: and develop a calendar system
[16:48]  Jesse Linden: to do all that
[16:48]  You: it's not off topic, as it has to do with the model here LL is using, which is a cross between socialism and anarcho-capitalism or something, I ca never get it
[16:48]  Cindy Crimson: a Digg type search function integrated with the current search would solve most of the problems
[16:48]  Cindy Crimson: as well as they could be solved
[16:48]  Cindy Crimson: imho
[16:48]  You: the key to getting advertising off the Events list is to get other places for it: one such places is in WAs on billboards
[16:48]  Harleen Gretzky: WA?
[16:48]  You: welcome areas
[16:49]  Sindy Tsure almost never goes to welcome areas..
[16:49]  You: and the allergy people have to billboards is making it merely displace and show up to a place where they become even more allergenic, the events calendar
[16:49]  Franko Corleone: yes another fine idea
[16:49]  Cindy Crimson: no. advertisers are going to go wherever they CAN, not just where they're allowed
[16:49]  You: You can manage some of the excesses by creating more capacity Cindy
[16:49]  Cindy Crimson: so you just end up ruining somewhere else for everyone
[16:49]  You: the telehub advertisers that used to work don't even work anymore right now
[16:49]  Cindy Crimson: that's not right, i'm sorry
[16:49]  Cindy Crimson: it's not costing them a dime to do this
[16:49]  You: well it's only your idea of ruining
[16:50]  Jesse Linden: Ok, folks I've got to wrap it up
[16:50]  Jesse Linden: in 10 mins
[16:50]  Jesse Linden: here
[16:50]  You: most newbies would love to have better delivery of information where there is socializing and jobs
[16:50]  Cindy Crimson: you think they'll stop just because we give them a plot of land to do it on?
[16:50]  Jesse Linden: thanks for coming Taco
[16:50]  Sindy Tsure has a question, Jesse!!!!
[16:50]  You: instead they wander around looking at building tutorials they don't need and Pathfinders' Picks from 2005
[16:50]  Siobhan OFlynn: thanks Jesse
[16:50]  Jesse Linden: Yes, Sindy
[16:50]  Rainbow Drake: Jesse, may I speak with your regarding hosting an educational event on Linden Land?
[16:50]  Sindy Tsure: can i have a bear?
[16:50]  Franko Corleone: Jesse... a Serious question.."Does Linden L:abs condone the operation of casino's within PG areas"?
[16:50]  Cindy Crimson: lol I've seen pathfinders 2005 picks!
[16:50]  Jesse Linden: sure, Rainbow
[16:51]  Rainbow Drake: I would like to teach a class on the Beta Grid this weekend.
[16:51]  Rainbow Drake: I was thinking Oak Grove.
[16:51]  Rainbow Drake: Is there a system for reserving space to use LL land for an event?
[16:51]  Jesse Linden: OK, can you send me an email
[16:51]  Jesse Linden: jesse@lindenlab.com
[16:51]  Jesse Linden: with your posposal
[16:51]  Rainbow Drake: I will, yes. Thankyou.
[16:51]  Laetizia Coronet: thanks everyone, Jesse
[16:51]  Jesse Linden: I'd like to wrap up here
[16:51]  Laetizia Coronet: bye
[16:52]  Soen Eber: Could we get a recap on the short term proposal?
[16:52]  Jesse Linden: seems like the consensus for the most part
[16:52]  Jesse Linden: is that flagging system
[16:52]  Jesse Linden: is a reasonable idea
[16:52]  Cindy Crimson: labor intensive
[16:52]  Jesse Linden: for whom?
[16:52]  Cindy Crimson: whomever has to do it
[16:52]  You: I missed that, but if you mean a "report on my fellow resident like informing to the KGB in Russia" that's what killed the forums, Jesse.
[16:53]  Cindy Crimson: following up on the flags i mean
[16:53]  Cindy Crimson: deciding whether the listing gets canned or not
[16:53]  Jesse Linden: this is a bit different, prokofy
[16:53]  You: never never never let the mentors/helpers/etc be incharge of policing other residents' content
[16:53]  DavidBatty Hathaway: lol prokofy.
[16:53]  Christian Prior is Online
[16:53]  You: oh, it's only like the Stasi in East Germany then?
[16:53]  Cindy Crimson: Prok, thats a bit inappropriate
[16:53]  Franko Corleone: or the republicans
[16:53]  Jesse Linden: no, this would be a system familiar to anyone who has used Craigslist, eventful, Upcoming
[16:53]  Jesse Linden: etc
[16:53]  Franko Corleone: lol
[16:54]  Sindy Tsure still hopes to get a bear
[16:54]  DavidBatty Hathaway: I think it's a good idea, I'll be the first to click the button on spam.
[16:54]  You: hardly Cindy, it's what killed the forums, the inability of Lindens to police it with a federal monitoring of the rule of law, and the ability of every junkyard dog on the forums to misuse the AR system to harass and bully people he didn't like.
[16:54]  Soen Eber: Has a business analyst been assigned to the flagging yet, Mr. Linden, to do a spec writeup?
[16:54]  Soen Eber: requirements analysis, etc?
[16:54]  Jesse Linden: No, Soen
[16:54]  You: I think it's not a workable system for a company that claims it is getting out of the AR and policing business, Jesse, it's going backwards
[16:54]  Jesse Linden: like I said at the beginning of the meeting
[16:55]  Jesse Linden: this is only in the discussion stages
[16:55]  Davidorban Agnon is Offline
[16:55]  Christian Prior is Offline
[16:55]  Cindy Crimson: sigh. comparing it to a fascist state is inappropriate
[16:55]  Christian Prior is Online
[16:55]  You: which means you are softening the public up for eventual implementation
[16:55]  Jesse Linden: Prokofy, we were talki8ng about building automation into the system
[16:55]  You: well the dynamics of reporting on one's fellow citizen are the same
[16:55]  You: well automation still needs human eyeballs to process the complaints
[16:55]  Jesse Linden: so if a particular events gets enough flags
[16:55]  You: and I thought you were getting out of the AR busienss and devolving it to island owners
[16:55]  Jesse Linden: it gets autodeleted
[16:55]  Soen Eber: So its got a green light but no resource allocation then ... I see
[16:55]  You: oh dear God
[16:55]  You: bad idea
[16:55]  Cindy Crimson: great. a griefers wet dream!
[16:55]  You: it will open up yet another griefing avenue
[16:56]  You: please
[16:56]  Wendella McGettigan is Online
[16:56]  Lyra Blackthorne: well I support flagging as opposed to many other choices. dont mind living with judgement by my fellow SL'ers
[16:56]  You: I think you ahve to tell people to filter
[16:56]  You: and add a billboard policy, I've said this for 2 years, so I'll shut up now, you get the point : )
[16:57]  Soen Eber: How about instead of deleting it gets moved to a review category instead, so we can still see it?
[16:57]  Jesse Linden: fair enough
[16:57]  You: I just find it humorous, kaneva, There, every other kind of world/game out there has billboards besides the company's inside the WA area
[16:57]  Cindy Crimson: noobs are confused enuf w/out adding signage to their stress
[16:57]  Franko Corleone: true
[16:57]  Sindy Tsure: trail by loglo
[16:57]  You: no, noobs are 35 year old IT professionals with a DSL line, a high-end graphics card, and leisure time for a world.
[16:57]  Sindy Tsure: *trial
[16:57]  You: let's not coddle them.
[16:58]  You: newbis are not children, or shouldn't be
[16:58]  Cindy Crimson: no. noobs are my aunt that i told to log on and come see
[16:58]  Cindy Crimson: who barely knows how to run the puter
[16:58]  DavidBatty Hathaway: Griefers can be dealt with by LL, only one vote per person can be counted towards a removal and if the limit is high then only non legitimate events will be reported.
[16:58]  Pearce Lundquist: hmm I'm a 36 year old IT professional, guess I'm a noob somehow
[16:58]  Franko Corleone: noobs...are people too :)
[16:58]  You: your aunt would handle a billboard in Grand Central station if she came to New York without having a stroke, she can stand one in SL, Cindy, my God.
[16:59]  You: billboards are not inherently evil neoliberalist running dog capitalist imperialist plots
[16:59]  Cindy Crimson: jesus you're either nieve or ignorant Prof
[16:59]  You: they are just boards, that can be tastefully done and useful
[16:59]  You: no, I have an aunt that's 76 who comes to Grand Central and sees the sign for the museum and says, let's go there
[16:59]  Cindy Crimson: i'm not against billboards per se, but MORE advertising space is not the answer
[16:59]  You: or the sign for the restaurant
[16:59]  You: yes it is
[16:59]  Aleksandr Martov is Online
[16:59]  Cindy Crimson: it's not going to stop the calendar spamming
[16:59]  You: It will help
[17:00]  Cindy Crimson: they will take your billboard and continue to spam
[17:00]  You: nothing is 100 percent in SL, you go for incremental improvements
[17:00]  Cindy Crimson: no they wont
[17:00]  Pearce Lundquist: heh wont do a damn thing to calendar
[17:00]  Cindy Crimson: how much spam do you get now in your email
[17:00]  You: well they can try it and see, it's ridiculous to be so ideologically restrictiev when they themselves are a profit-making capitalst entity lol
[17:00]  Franko Corleone: too much
[17:00]  Cindy Crimson: even tho advertisers can put ads up on websites
[17:00]  You: they keep hoping against hope they can at least train everybody in the world to become hippie socialists, and damn it never works, they keep selling stuff
[17:01]  Franko Corleone: and it has me tossed how sso many that spam my email seem to think i need or want viagra in 100 different flavors
[17:01]  Cindy Crimson: LL is a for-profit corp. they're only going to do what keeps them profitable
[17:01]  Scarlett Qi: Thank you for having this session, Jesse. It was very informative.
[17:01]  Aleksandr Martov is Offline
[17:01]  You: I fail to see how adding work to sort automatic flags of griefers settling scores is rational for them
[17:01]  Cindy Crimson: and if newbie coddling is on their list, then by god thats what's going to happen
[17:01]  Soen Eber: Its only one email per flavor...
[17:01]  Jesse Linden: Your welcome Scarlett
[17:01]  Franko Corleone: lol
[17:01]  Jesse Linden: Thanks for coming everyone
[17:01]  Sindy Tsure nods.. "TY, Jesse"
[17:01]  Cindy Crimson: sorry for ranting Jesse :)
[17:01]  Cindy Crimson: nice to meet you
[17:02]  Jesse Linden: Np
[17:02]  Rainbow Drake: Thankyou Jesse.
[17:02]  Cindy Crimson could argue with a brick wall :)
[17:02]  Cindy Crimson: and win!
[17:02]  Jesse Linden: back to the salt mines for me
[17:02]  DavidBatty Hathaway: Clicking 'Junk Mail' works for hotmail and other mail providers, I am sure it would work on the events list.
[17:02]  Jesse Linden: good feedback everyone
[17:02]  Sindy Tsure: good luck with prok then , cindy
[17:02]  Scarlett Qi: Thanks again!
[17:02]  Jesse Linden: have a great night
[17:03]  DavidBatty Hathaway: Thanks, Jesse
[17:03]  Jesse Linden is Offline
[17:03]  You: The biggest disconnect for me about Second Life Jessehas always been the inability to advertise in the WA, it's not rational
[17:03]  Franko Corleone: i still would have liked an answer to my quest. about casinos in PG areas...but that will wait for the next office :)
[17:03]  Cindy Crimson: one trick pony arent you Prok?
[17:03]  Sindy Tsure wonders how much longer prok will talk, even tho jesse is gone
[17:03]  Soen Eber: Alright, how do you unmute someone?
[17:03]  Steam Armor - Electro-Mace: releasing controls
[17:03]  Chaley May: Now we will talk about.... Age Verification!
[17:04]  Cindy Crimson: lol right click, unmute?
[17:04]  Chaley May: not really
[17:04]  Franko Corleone: i shoulda stayed in bed
[17:04]  Cindy Crimson: it's going to happen. why argue?
[17:05]  Chaley May: Because you have to at least try tfighting against things that are against your safety
[17:06]  Ephraim Mathilde is Online
[17:06]  Wendella McGettigan is Offline
[17:06]  Chaley May: sure it might happen regardless of how many people resist
[17:06]  Cindy Crimson: well, it's not a democracy :)
[17:06]  Chaley May: they can just replace us
[17:06]  Cindy Crimson: no. most will fake the verif if poss and log on anyway
[17:06]  Cindy Crimson: it's window dressing for the lawyers
[17:07]  Franko Corleone: unfortunately, som things that affect our "safety" in SL appear to be ignored by Linden Labs when it is a profitable venture for the labs to encourage

MY COMPLAINT TO JESSE LINDEN ABOUT HANDING TOWNHALL SOUND CONTRACT TO SECOND CAST

Prokofy Neva: No to resident government, Jesse, that's what this Second Cast stuff is, I resist with every fiber of my being, wrong wrong wrong
Jesse Linden: not Secondcast
Jesse Linden: its a contract with Johnny Ming
Jesse Linden: not affiliated with his show
Prokofy Neva: wrong wrong wrong, to contract out a function of the federal government that is in the public interest to a private commercial FIC entity
Prokofy Neva: Lordfly will lord it over us
Prokofy Neva: look at how he is gloating in the forums about it all
Jesse Linden: where?
Prokofy Neva: Lordfly is explaining how he, cristiano and the rest will "filter the questions"
Jesse Linden: oh no
Prokofy Neva: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=98499
Jesse Linden: that will not be the case
Prokofy Neva: this is how it starts
Prokofy Neva: you give these people and inch they take a mile, I saw this coming, which Is why I began fighting them vigorously a year ago
Prokofy Neva: wrong wrong wrong
Prokofy Neva: Lordfly doesn't represent anything but his tiny little interest group
Jesse Linden: well unfortunately for Lordfly
Jesse Linden: he's goign to look a bit silly
Prokofy Neva: Jesse, you wish
Jesse Linden: those folks will not be involved
Jesse Linden: in the town hall
Prokofy Neva: but you should see this bunch all over Second Citizen, a new outside forum
Prokofy Neva: they are gloating, lording it over, putting others in their place
Prokofy Neva: "We" will do this
Prokofy Neva: "We will do that says Cristiano
Jesse Linden: its going to be a larry king call in show format
Prokofy Neva: um, they haven't gotten the memo yet
Jesse Linden: they have
Prokofy Neva: well it's wrong even so, for 100 reasons I already explained to Philip this morning
Prokofy Neva: and I think Philip got like 17 and a half of the reasons, but not the other 83 or so
Jesse Linden: i think secondcast shoudl stay away from this with a 10 foot pole
Prokofy Neva: that's progress
Jesse Linden: they will ruin their credability
Prokofy Neva: it IS Second Cast!!!!!!
Prokofy Neva: they are CLAIMING it as theirs
Prokofy Neva: ALL of them
Jesse Linden: and be seen as a linden mouthpiece
Jesse Linden: thats their mistake then
Prokofy Neva: No, the Lindens willb e seen as a weak federal government taken over by the FIC monarchy
Jesse Linden: ive talked about it with johnny
Prokofy Neva: who the hell is Johnny Ming?
Prokofy Neva: he's some guy on the Internet
Prokofy Neva: he's not Wolf blitzer
Prokofy Neva: he doesn't represent the public intrest
Prokofy Neva: he has a podcast with these Pods -- the FIC de la FIC
Prokofy Neva: they are illegitimate !@#!@$!@$#
Prokofy Neva: http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2006/04/outsourcing_gov.html
Jesse Linden: i know i read it
Prokofy Neva: well first Cristiano tried to spin it and say he wasn't going to vet questions
Prokofy Neva: then Lordfly said he was
Prokofy Neva: then Walker withdrew and said " I can't do this and be an independent journalist"
Prokofy Neva: thank God for Walker Spaight!
Prokofy Neva: he knows how to be a journalist even if Johnny doesn't
Jesse Linden: ha
Jesse Linden: have you seen foolish frosts' new forum
Jesse Linden: sldrama.com?
Prokofy Neva: yes it took me like 2 hours to get signed up for it
Jesse Linden: I should start a thread there
Prokofy Neva: because my tekkie geeky wicki guy so tightened up my computer from spies it couldn't log on
Prokofy Neva: yes I joined it and hope it might amount to something, as Second Citizen is pretty poisoned already
Jesse Linden: I havent seen that yet
Prokofy Neva: Foolish Frost is a pretty sane grown up sort of fellow
Prokofy Neva: Second Citizen had a good start but the Poison Posse is all there now in spades so I fight them and that makes it then just a wrangle
Prokofy Neva: Nobody has the balls to just take out these people, the 20 worst offenders,
Jesse Linden: take out?
Jesse Linden: you mean contract a hit?
Prokofy Neva: Weedy Herbst for example is not only threatening to get me permbanned forever from the game, she says Philip calls her when "drunk" and whispers sweet hot nothings in her ear -- she's truly deranged
Prokofy Neva: these people are psychos
Prokofy Neva: no, not contract hit
Prokofy Neva: I don't believe in violence at all
Prokofy Neva: you have to have a free marketplace of ideas
Jesse Linden: 'cause I know a guy..
Prokofy Neva: I mean take them out of a forums by taking them on
Jesse Linden: u do that at second citizen etc?
Prokofy Neva: at first the group there rallied and posted the known DMV IV list of bully character traits and that actually had Nolan Nash running for cover
Prokofy Neva: but then the other fanboyz came over
Prokofy Neva: yes I take them on
Prokofy Neva: but you know, I pitch over most people's head, I write too long posts, and when you lay down with dogs, you get flees
Prokofy Neva: still, it's a public service that the record is kept and shown and people get it
Prokofy Neva: I know you all don't appreciate it
Prokofy Neva: but you might in 50 years
Jesse Linden: well I advised johnny ming to distance his talk show from this town hall
Prokofy Neva: Jesse
Prokofy Neva: you're like
Jesse Linden: if his crew doesnt follow that advice
Jesse Linden: well..
Prokofy Neva: you're lke
Jesse Linden: what can i say
Prokofy Neva: Andropov telling Vladimir Posner to "distance himself" from the Kremlin
Prokofy Neva: or
Prokofy Neva: this is so
Prokofy Neva: you can see they aren't doing ANYTHING of the kind and are lording it over others
Prokofy Neva: http://forums.secondcitizen.com/showthread.php?t=839
Jesse Linden: what is the SIC?
Prokofy Neva: Superior Inner Core, more superior than FIC, evolved FIC
Prokofy Neva: people like Satchmo and Hiro who have RL work in SL now
Jesse Linden: k
Prokofy Neva: Jesse, Jesse, Jesse
Jesse Linden: who are in fact Linden alts
Prokofy Neva: I try to keep you caught up
Prokofy Neva: but it's so HARD
Jesse Linden: I appreciate it!
Prokofy Neva: well I don't know that any are alts
Prokofy Neva: but sure, Zarf-Zero is a SIC
Jesse Linden: I know i'm kiddign about Hiro
Prokofy Neva: yeah he's not Linden material
Prokofy Neva: not that I'm an expert
Prokofy Neva: but there are some people who pass the State Department Foreign Service Exam with like a 95
Prokofy Neva: then they get like a 40 on the social test and flunk the interview
Prokofy Neva: It's really so evil that this Johnny has gone week after week with this cast of clowns
Prokofy Neva: never varying the menu
Prokofy Neva: always the same FIC bunch
Prokofy Neva: it's like that talk show with all those fake diverse women, one white, one black, one thin, one fat, you know the one I mean?
Prokofy Neva: not Oprah but
Jesse Linden: well, Johnny does a good job hosting a podcast
Jesse Linden: has a good radio voice e3tc
Prokofy Neva: ugh I disagree
Prokofy Neva: he asks no questions
Prokofy Neva: he just has these people pontificate for WAY too long
Prokofy Neva: there's no back and forth
Prokofy Neva: this is NO Charlie Rose
Prokofy Neva: his voice sounds like some teenager in the Midwest who has a tin can telephone he just made in his backyard
Prokofy Neva: Jesse get a grip!
Prokofy Neva: you all are fleeing from your federal responsibilities and hiding from your own public
Prokofy Neva: and outsourcing the governannce to this illegitimate bunch
Prokofy Neva: this is just AWFUL stuff
Prokofy Neva: Robin is at least posting now that anyone in theory could speak on Skype or something, not sure how that is being done
Prokofy Neva: it's not clear -- a 1 800 number, or a team speak or a what
Jesse Linden: yes, ive been workin on that all day, prokofy
Jesse Linden: skype call in
Prokofy Neva: It is not me who called Second Cast the FIC Power Hour
Prokofy Neva: I don't have to be the one to do that
Jesse Linden: u dont have to listen
Prokofy Neva: it happens by itself, some other guy I don't even know does that
Prokofy Neva: well sure Jesse, I don't have to watch CNN either
Prokofy Neva: if CNN is taken over by some Bush flunky
Prokofy Neva: but I cuold also protest about the Bush flunky and hope CNN becomes better and fulfills its mission
Prokofy Neva: please
Prokofy Neva: I think I need to do an opposition town hall again tho
Prokofy Neva: because unless someone regularly displays nausea at what is happening here, you have no feedback, you don't have these instincts on your own seemingly
Jesse Linden: I understand your point
Jesse Linden: but the idea
Jesse Linden: for this town hall is simply to provide a better medium than type
Prokofy Neva: Yes, Putin said these things when he took over NTV too
Prokofy Neva: yep
Jesse Linden: since philip is the 1st person to tell you
Prokofy Neva: "better medium"
Prokofy Neva: Philip can't type
Prokofy Neva: yeah
Jesse Linden: he is a better speaker than typist
Jesse Linden: yes
Prokofy Neva: this CEO of a multimillion dollar company who has typed since he was NINE
Prokofy Neva: can't type
Prokofy Neva: right
Prokofy Neva: right!'
Prokofy Neva: he told me that
Prokofy Neva: the problem is, you all made a world where we TYPE
Prokofy Neva: we don't have little thingies on the interface to TALK
Jesse Linden: thats a good point!
Prokofy Neva: so we get to HEAR and he gets to TALK
Jesse Linden: I think we need to FIX thart
Prokofy Neva: and THEY get to TALK too
Jesse Linden: * that
Prokofy Neva: NOT us
Prokofy Neva: so that's !@@!$!23
Prokofy Neva: it's push media
Prokofy Neva: provided courtesy of the FIC
Prokofy Neva: and i'm sure Philip's remarks will be as blow-dryed as his hair!
Prokofy Neva: For him to be RUSHING into this
Prokofy Neva: must be due to him having some REALLY BAD NEWS
Prokofy Neva: Gosh I better go sell my Lindens tonight LOL
Prokofy Neva: always a good idea before a TH in any eventy

PROTEST TO JESSE ABOUT REMOVAL OF TAG SALES FROM EVENTS LIST

Prokofy Neva: Honestly, Jesse, what is the "commercial" section of events FOR if you can't use it to ADVERTISE STUFF in the event itself -- if it has a host present and a duration, why on earth favour a condo opening or a club contest or Hamlet's contests and
Prokofy Neva: discriminate against yard sales?
Jesse Linden: I'm not discriminating against anything
Jesse Linden: im simply trying to do a better job
Jesse Linden: of enforcing the rul4es
Prokofy Neva: Your rules state that a) if you have a host present and b) the event is in duration and c) it sells stuff it can be in COMMERCIAL
Jesse Linden: and making the calendar more usable
Prokofy Neva: so why the ban on yard sales that fit those *exact same rules*?
Prokofy Neva: if they are 24/7 sales without hosts, they violate the rules, but you've created a climate now where eveyrone says NO YARD SALES
Jesse Linden: call em garage sales then
Prokofy Neva: Why is the guy advertising a book and doing a book as a product launch where he's present disciplined?
Prokofy Neva: why do I ahve to call them garage sales when they are in a yard? I don't have "garages" in a game where the cars can't cross the sims, Jesse
Prokofy Neva: please
Jesse Linden: he shoulnt have been
Jesse Linden: if the event meets the criteria
Jesse Linden: regardless of what its called
Jesse Linden: then it should be ok
Prokofy Neva: You've now set off a climate of zealous vigilantism where people think it's illegal even to sell anything at all with or without an event unless you are the creator of that object
Prokofy Neva: well I will be testing this as will others, it's ridiculous, you have these rules, we keep them, I don't understand this allergy to commerce
Prokofy Neva: just because it's not something that puts commissions in ESC's pocket
Prokofy Neva: do you want a free economy or not?
Prokofy Neva: The solution to cleaning up the events calendar is for all these people with delicate eyes to create better events
Prokofy Neva: and use filters, filters work fine
Jesse Linden: the filters work allright
Prokofy Neva: I realize that a select few have a notion of a higher culture and the culture of yard sales and Tringo of the masses is upsetting
Prokofy Neva: but then keep SL to yourself, have it with just 50,000 content creators who work a restricted guild economy
Prokofy Neva: make it all yourself, get it all fixed up, then sell it for $50 a box and have very rigid rules for the users to come in and buy all the pre-made stuff, and don't let them sell
Prokofy Neva: That might make you happier?
Prokofy Neva: because there is such vicious hatred against people who resell any objects, especially those that are free, that there really is no tolerance for anything but the most managed society ehre

Comments

[cube inada]

another fine show of community ethics in todays borg youth.

buy us out, or make us cool enough for someone else to buy us out...

all built on the others losing something...

betterverse strikes again. ugh.

[Darien Caldwell]

Youtube already has channels. Doesn't sound very original. Oh, but it works with Facebook... *snigger*