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« Weird Incomplete Build of Grace | Main | DO NOT RENT: Winter Orfan or Winter Riverstone »

May 21, 2011


cube inada

too tired and too much in this post to digest and argue with...

but bascially.. open standards are source, not so much.... standards of value...even more so.

otherwise its a world built on tulips....

maybe ill dig depper later


Ann Otoole InSL

Dog shit is free. It is laying right there on the sidewalk free for collecting. Nobody wants to invest in dog shit. Why is that?


So many stories surrounding the Armed Forces in SL. And none of them give a straight answer.

Who purchased and killed SLE? Was it the Navy, the Army, hell, the CIA? Because now they have their own opensim and are still squealing like stuck pigs about the demise of SLE. The Navy has sims on this Moses project. If they have SLE why, why wouldn't they let any other armed forces group use it? It looks like they purchased it only to kill it and now are on Moses.

This same kind of tactics were taken by IBM before the armed forces.

Then we have all the misguided tech people wanting to opensource everything but their personal info. Which, they don't understand, goes with the territory of opening up everything.

So what is it about Linden Lab's Second Life that some groups/businesses/military want to get their hands on? I think the lab's little baby grid is more valuable than we really understand. Maybe it is a good thing that the company has so much interdepartmental infighting. It keeps the opensource groups within it from pulling the kill switch.


"if you're not paying for something, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold".

Just a quote doing the rounds at the moment that seems appropriate.

Horus Vale

Like c3 said, I would need to go over your post in detail to offer a set of specific responses to your points and questions, and I just do not have the time and energy at the moment. Perhaps later, but the short answer to your post is really about vision and philosophy. There was an Internet before there was a World Wide Web. It was connected in the sense that data and messages could be sent back and forth, but it lacked a means to present and request that information without resorting to an overly technical or formal request process. Then someone came up with a remarkable idea. If that same information could be put in the form of a collection networked linked databases of automatically searchable and publishable documents, then it could be more easily distributed to a general audience. To achieve this goal, a standardized document format and reader/requester application needed to be created. The inventor of this system could have "hoarded" this concept and developed it into a private and proprietary distributed network database product and most likely sold it for a considerable sum. However, the "vision", was to make a "universal" means to publish this information to an unlimited number of requestors. Thus it was decided to "share" this concept with the "public" and make the details of this revolutionary technology available to all who wished to become involved. And so the research and development process became a "colaborative" effort and produced a ubiquitous and popular productivity tool for the masses. Of course the product I am talking about is the Web Browser which draws its content from servers using the HyperText Transfer Protocol (HTTP), a networking protocol for distributed, collaborative, hypermedia information systems. Some goals can only be achieved through sharing. If you want the result, then you have to work the process. Do the means justify the ends? Well, that is very much a philosophical question that only can be answered by the individual. Many desire a true 3D VR analogue to the Web Based Internet. To produce such a technology requires a universally standardized core set of protocols and features that can be publicly shared. The quest to produce such a product is why one needs standards for virtual worlds. It is the desire to connect and share in a larger context, that which already exists as disparate elements. Secondlife is the most developed, generalized and popular of the network shared virtual worlds. That is why it is sought after as the primary model for this effort.

Jaye Haiku

I'll admit, I don't know tonnes on this subject - but it strikes me that virtual world standards are lead by a group of well meaning techies looking tonsecure a place of authority or kudos for themselves in the metaverse. To be honest, I have no strong opinions about whether or not we should have standards, but doing it without the involvement of either the lab or any of the other major virtual worlds (imvu,, bluemars, etc. maybe even game companies) is doomed to failure. Are they actually expecting all these companies to change their products just because some group has decided there's a new standard? Standards need to at least be industry driven, if you look at any major standard consortium it's members are usually listed alongside their industry affiliation. So I can't really see this going anywhere long term.

Could be wrong though, like I said I'm not that well informed.

Prokofy Neva

Horus, again: virtual worlds are not the Internet. Browsers are not worlds.

cube inada

found this:

just replace "the topic" and the rest tells why Linden is still where it is..and just about every attempted web2.0 app from Silly valley still is too....

Prokofy Neva

The hilarious thing about that link, cube, is the disclaimer that he puts in the end that he isn't really hustling for the Apple brand only lol...

Horus Vale

Ah, and here is the core, where the truth is revealed. For Websites alone are not the Internet, nor are Web Browsers the Websites. They are simply some of the bits and pieces that make up the larger concept and context of the Web. The simulators are not the virtual worlds. And the viewers are not the simluators. Nor is the content used by both either one of the others. All of these things must work in concert along with others to produce the emergent phenomena that is a virtual world. Where those elements conflict because of a lack common function there is no virtual world. The real world consists of varied lands and people, the unique mix of which determines the local flavor of a region and it culture. Yet those differences do not prevent the people from being human nor the land from being an environment that supports them. Of course those things were already everywhere. But what was not everywhere already was a means to travel and conduct trade between those places, nor accomodations for travelers or ports for goods. The means, medium and customs of global travel and trade had to be created as a shared cooperative effort. And so, the result is now we have international airports and hotels, and ships, wharves and warehouses. We obtained a larger human experience while making the world seemingly smaller. And yet it still remains itself locally, if altered a bit, pretty much everywhere you go. A traveler finds value in these global standards. while a local may or may not find them of value. If they should disagree, then who is right and who is wrong or does it even really matter which at all. Secondlife can be itself alone or it can become part of a larger inter-network of virtual worlds. The choice is ultimately up to Linden Labs and its customers.

cube inada


following new favorite net MIP's created

SL is one giant Brandcuff of it's own making...;)

cube inada


Hey, all the TECH sessions were filled!!...

Lets see.. jaron, will, and bruce....yep looks like Virtual Worlds redux v.2 ;)

hey, its not all techie...jaron played his magic flute;)

now we mortals get to wait to see which of the VC startups gets the most buzz, dosnt blow its capital up its founders nose, and survives long enough for someone to buy it and maybe market the tech as a tool and not a platform service for ads it sells...

or who first sells out to adobe for bundling with flash 12;)

that's how "I SEE IT;)" soon to be a trademarked ARism...

cube inada

one more item.... military and vr/tech.

it was the naval post graduate school that was one fo the earlierst- heaviest into VR...VRML (90s) and such, created things that led other military projects including the "fun" AMERICAS ARMY GAME for the kiddies...

Gamification!! woo woo... lets make everykid a binary borg button pusher....and so it goes....

Horus Vale

Ann - Water is free. It falls from the sky, free for collecting. Lots of people want to invest in water systems and rights. In fact many through out history have fought over it, where it is scarce. Why is that? Because it provides for human needs. Just because something is free, does not mean it is worthless. - Horus

ichabod Antfarm

Water isn't free as there is always some cost associated with collecting it for practical purposes e.g. you can't run say a technological civilization by turning your head to the sky and opening your mouth whenever it rains.

Dogshit also isn't free as the dog's got to eat something first. Oddly, the collection of dogshit from city streets used to provide a bare living to the most grievously poor as it was used in the production of saltpeter for gunpowder. However, this fact doesn't diminish the rhetorical force of Anne's comment which I thought was quite funny.

I guess the point is that in a universe governed by the laws of thermodynamics, nothing is ever really free and commercial "open source" is as likely as perpetual motion.

cube inada

"perpetual motion" is the core of SV and Technology economics today...;)

ichabod Antfarm

While we're busy developing standards for esoteric artifacts like virtual worlds we really ought to confront the more pressing issue of non-standardization in the human genome. Sure, we understand that it's agreed that we all use the DNA protocol to ensure organic reproduction but the plethora of morphologies even within a species is confusing when it isn't downright scary and inefficient when it isn't a damnable waste of money. Imagine a world where everyone was the same height! No need for adjustable seats in automobiles, counter tops would always be at the right level, and we wouldn't have to post those height guessing rulers near the doorways of shops. So, let's leave the business of virtual world open standards until after we are all the right skin colour.

Darien Caldwell

"SL is one giant Brandcuff of it's own making...;)"

Indeed. A new term to add to my vocabulary. :)

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