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« Cull.TV -- and a Cull of Historical Record of 6 Years Ago | Main | Are the Lindens Coddling AnnMarie Otoole with Her Obnoxious Vehicles? »

May 29, 2011

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Ann Otoole InSL

Since the scenario of businesses folding because the economy has problems is increasing then it is also useful to point out if you are paying tier to LL for mainland and wish to downgrade then you have to keep enough USD funds on file to pay for the month you are in, abandon all your land, drop your group tier donations, and then cancel premium. Since group tier can be messed up you might even have to open support tickets to get rid of group tier donations if they are defectively higher than you can drop. Once you have erased all obligations then LL will take the money for the current month and only then will your premium status no longer be needed.

It is pretty messed up. Only when you see you will have a zero balance the next month will you know you escaped LL's billing department clutches.

A related observation: If LL folds and SL is closed then none of LL's TOS rules apply anymore do they.

Prokofy

Ann, if you find yourself in that position, you have 37 days to handle it. So even if you are in dire straits, you have 7 days before you lose access to your account, then 30 days before your land is seized. So either you a) transfer your stuff or b) get the bill paid in 30 days.

I don't see how you would have to open up tickets to "drop group tier donations". Those other people who are donating the tier can do one of two things: 1) pull out the tier so they won't be billed in the month after the next month 2) tier up to help you temporarily, and you meanwhile pull out your avatar from the group and reduce him to premium.

I don't see what is 'messed up' about that at all.

In fact, people who are going out of business do this all the time. People who are stuck sometimes either get someone to help, or they rent tier from a business renting tier, which enables them to withdraw, tier down, and pull out while they still pay in Linden dollars for tier from sale of land.

Look at her bill. By the time the Lindens shut off the account, there was a $3200 plus tab there. That means that if she had to have had a bill with more than 4 sims, because each sim is $295 a month tier. Is that 10 sims then? Or did she already get the Lindens to let her through one grace period of 30 days and now it's 60 days? It's an odd bill.

If you are facing a tier bill of $3200 -- or the loss of your account and your islands -- you are doing something profoundly irresponsible and stupid, especially if you have other people who have contributed money to your art sim.

To be sure, business can tank very fast and leave people caught. But you'd still have time to pull out of that bill if you cancelled the islands quickly enough when you found you couldn't pay for them, or you could firesale them.

Ann Otoole InSL

Because Prok, there is a defect. I show I have donated more tier than I have. I can drop only so much. And then it will still show I donated land. I am the only premium in my groups. I am the only one that can donate. The total donated amount is higher than I can donate or drop. This defect has been around a while. To clear it requires LL going in and fixing it.

And yes one should plan ahead and keep the money on hand for 2 months because it might take you 2 months to sort it out and go into free/basic status. If things are getting increasingly tighter because, obviously, SL is imploding as people leave and the RL economy is in the crapper and there are newer toys to play with, then it is time to reevaluate where your hobby money is going.

We keep hearing more and more reports of people at LL being unhelpful in respect to LL's billing system that refuses to take money even after LL blogged about it and provided non functional phone numbers to call. Is Rod Humble the only actual CSR at LL? Looks that way.

melponeme_k

Well I do feel bad for her. She got messed up in the abrupt non-profit change. Non-profits had a different pay schedule arrangement and I believe SL refused to change the schedule for her (from a couple of months in advance to monthly payments).

She probably could have started charging other groups for using her facilities for performances. But, as we all learn, giving away something for free doesn't make it valuable. People tread it like refuse.

I don't know, lately I've been reading a lot of crazy stories about SL. The push by the military to opensource everything has me antsy. For the first time, I've been thinking about pulling up stakes, just taking that Linden Welfare house until my premium ends. Do you want some nice plots cheap? IM me.

Prokofy

I'm not sure that she had non-profit status. She's not with a recognized charity, it was just her own amateur/semi-professional project. I don't see that she represents any kind of real-life theater or arts group. Of course, she might have gotten the attention of one, but she was unable to. Where do you see evidence that she used to have this rate?

Also, when it comes to the "different pay schedule," that was reference to universities or nonprofits paying in advance, not getting a credit in advance.

If you have different information please link to such a policy because I've never heard of it, but I've heard universities describe the opposite, where they needed invoices to reflect that they would pay in advance by a year or half year.

Darien Caldwell

Ina has always pandered for 'dontations' because she never wanted to pay for her sims out of her own pocket.

I don't feel sorry for someone who won't take responsibility for their own actions. If you can't afford to pay for a sim yourself, don't get one. Don't expect other people to foot the bill for you.

It's pretty simple.


I'm not sure why she can't pay for it anyway, I remember 2 or more years ago she had a huge sim-sized store of skins called 'Skin City'. The skins were nice, I thought skins were supposed to be a holy grail of sales in SL?

Daniel Regenbogen

She writes about a raise in tier (which only happened to the non-profit/edu regions) and about one region that has payed tier in advance for 6 months - clear signs for the old discounted non-profit/edu regions.

Prokofy

Daniel, the Lindens accepted paid-in-advance tier and didn't demand a raise immediately on the tier.

So if Ina had discounted tier all this time, she should be grateful, and given the issue of accountability to the public involved in managing a non-profit, she should have made a careful and timely exit from the sims so as not to lose her account or the content. That could have been done, and wasn't.

It's grand-standing and posturing.

Daniel Regenbogen

Yes, but as I read it LL seems to have raised the tier (after the usual advance payment ran out) *but* still demands another advance payment of the now normal tier. She wrote that her account is some 3500 dollar in red numbers - looks to me like LL tried to charge the full 295 for one region for a whole year in advance. *That* would be something to get upset about in my eyes.

Prokofy Neva

Daniel, that's ridiculous. That's easily dealt with by calling customer service in a timely manner. The Lindens announced the end of the subsidy of nonprofits last year, timed for the fall. So there was plenty of time to undo this arrangement. The normal procedure is to bill only for the tier used in the past month, so it could have been changed simply by calling customer service. And don't tell me that customer service doesn't respond -- we don't know that because Ina hasn't mentioned this as problem -- *you* have contrived it.

And even if customer service didn't respond, then you keep trying, when you have something like this -- a project that has been sustained by a community and is larger than yourself.

Except, that's not how this self-referential geek saw it. She saw it as her vanity project, and it remained that to the end, and she'd rather commit avataricide than solve the problem of how to keep it going or at least back up the copy.

Daniel Regenbogen

Yes, there are a few people who create lots of drama instead of first trying out all the ways to solve a problem. Still I think that it is poor customer service to take away a bonus but keep the negative side that came with it (the having to pay always a complete year in advance). There should be no need to undo any arrangement.

melponeme_k

Prokofy, customer Service was called in a timely manner. From the time the change was announced.

They refused to change the payment schedule for these sims. They insisted on keeping the non-profit payment plan in place even though the sims were no longer non-profit. And considering all the recent horrific customer service stories in regards to sims, I believe they had a part in creating this mess.

Word to LL, Military is coming to destroy you. They are not going to create the hypergrid for you. So don't be putting all those eggs in one basket.

Prokofy Neva

Mel, do you know this for a fact? I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying it. It's absurd. Yes, customer service/billing can be awful. But really, forcing somebody to pay regular rates for sims on a year-ahead basis after moving them from nonprofit? I simply do not believe it. I realize you may have some inside dope here and I respect that, and I realize LL can be awful but I want to make two salient points here:

o If true, this fact alone would be enough to garner Ina a lot more sympathy -- and even a smidgeon from me. Yet she never mentions this in her lengthy post about the subject.

o Instead, she plays "my content is trapped on a proprietary platform without open source software WWWAAAAAA" card, when that isn't persuasive (given what I've said about workarounds) and where the "big bad evil billing made a huge outrageous grab" would play much much better.

So I have to wonder if this is true -- i.e. it may have happened as some automatic, mechanical stupid thing, but I wonder if any real effort was made to undo it.

There's also this fact: the sims remain, with a group holding them of her alts and others, and aren't seized yet.

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