This just in, in response to my query.
[10:15] Maverick Grunfeld: (Saved Wed Sep 21 12:31:02 2011) Prokofy, I have resigned my membership. If the JLU is conducting any responses, either public or black ops, I am not involved with them.
I have no idea whether this is true enough, I merely add it to the information pile. It might be strategic, but it might be Maverick is just tired of the game. It *is* a game, cops and robbers.
The thread-that-will-not-die continues at Sluniverse.com, with that self-important Cummere Mayo, who claims some vague relationship to RL law-enforcement and continues to swagger with it, now coming up with the story of a 16-year-old claiming to be stalked by Kalel Venkman.
Awfully convenient, this story, right when they've run out of other "evidence". They seem to harp on the idea of minors, perhaps in a last-ditch attempt to come up with something that will trigger child protection laws.
The story seems lame on many fronts and even the griefers on the thread have cast doubts on it. A 16-year-old "on their own" and "working two jobs"? Huh? Is that legal? Maybe in some states. Not likely. And they "just happened" to put on a grief object in SL and "just happened" to then be "stalked" by the JLU? As well as being force-ported to the cornfield to be de-loused by a Linden? (I've had that done to me -- it's believable -- but then you have to wonder why that alleged teen doesn't then ask that nice Linden again to investigate Kalel's "stalking"). All in all, without an avatar name and without the person seeming to contact the Lindens or RL police (they'd rather vent on a forums, which is always suspect), it doesn't wash.
It's gratifying to see Ariadne wield her toxic snark on a proper target for once -- Cummere -- but also to see Cummere give it right back to this overweening pretentious bitch, Ariadne. Yes, Sluniverse.com has its charms -- but I have to move on.
What have we got?
The picture is one of a sleuthing organization that begins chasing its own tail and licking its own ass -- and that's the JLU as well as Sluniverse.com -- this happens a lot with police operations all over the world, real and virtual, and the only solution to it is transparency, and more transparency, and democracy and more democracy. Banning and muting doesn't cut it -- public discussion of crime should not be censored. That's why I have no use for Cristiano, who censors discussions he doesn't like by suspensions and bans, and why I call for the JLU merely to open up their griefer wiki. The public then can be warned about all those Robble Rubble Double Trouble characters in real time and it can be self-correcting if someone who is merely casually related gets in there. When reports are public, policemen have to behave better.
It would also help to keep documenting all the real-time reports on under-the-radar edge-pushers like Imnotgoing -- once you compile a bunch of his creepy stuff like inappropriate dress and skin in PG infohubs, it becomes harder and harder for him to keep lying and distracting. Transparency -- glasnost -- is the only solution for griefers, too.
Publicizing what they do is the only way to put an end to groups that deliberately lie about what they do and also try to minimize it, or try to blame the victim. Artemis Fate does that -- claiming that I somehow "attract" griefers. Um, that's because I'm willing not to be intimidated by them, and not to believe in their claim that if you just shut up, if you just change what you do, if you just lock down your sim or stop criticizing their nihilism, why, everything will be alright. But it won't be. Silence doesn't work. I've seen this time and again with people facing ex-boyfriend stalkers in SL. If they don't abuse report it, if they don't tell their friends, if they don't fight it, it only worsens. The same with griefing.
I was reading Kalel's initial self-serving description of his device as it was posted again, and I couldn't see anything wrong with the device that violates the TOS. It's not pleasant, and I don't endorse it -- again, I believe the way to deal with griefers is to publicize what they do. That doesn't mean all day, very day, with obsessiveness -- that isn't worth it. But occasionally, on a regular basis, strategically, as you would report on real-world terrorist attacks. While not morally or physically similar, their *dynamics* are the same -- the rely on some substrate of supporters who would not do what they do, who may not condone their acts, *but are silent*.
CheerGirl is out of alibis and arguments -- she has now resorted to making crude sexual put-downs of Kalel. Self-discredits.
Pixeleen is grousing about a story that one wonders wasn't published at the time -- apparently the organizers of SLCC cut out a page of an already-printed bulletin about the conference containing Pixeleen's rantings about the "outrageous" JLU. In fact, I printed that same information and got the same takedown threat and the same material was removed -- I just didn't have the time or resources to pursue it as Pixeleen did it. So wound up was he about it that finally he revealed his RL persona, a story I'd already broken long ago on this blog, in fact.
Yeah, it's creepy that the SLCC organizers did that, and it would be interesting to know whether they did that on their own or LL directed them to and threatened to pull their sponsorship. The SLCC is under such more better and sane management than in the earlier days that I suspect it was the former -- prudent pre-emptive action. Why? Because to have one resident slam another set of residents in print, when the facts can't be found adequately isn't good for business and also implicates the organizers in any lawsuit that Kalel might cook up -- and he may have threatened them to get the ball rolling, that's not known either.
My own position on dealing with Kalel's threats back then was to shrug and simply document what he was doing, which I think is self-discrediting. I don't have a burning need to spend $400/hour on lawyers to prove that Kalel is a swaggering ass trying to get a DMCA intended for protection of intellectual property to do the job of silencing criticism.
Again, I felt then this affair needed a public discussion, and the wiki needs to be public on griefers. But as I've pointed out before, Sluniverse.com is sawing off the limb they are sitting on by trying to prevent people from taking notes and keeping them about people and events on the Internet. That's what Sluniverse.com and a million other blogs and forums do, and that has to be protected. People are entitled to a reasonable degree of privacy. But that doesn't mean they get to exempt themselves for their actions in public. Privacy doesn't trump accountability.
Privacy has to tart with your own sliders and prudence on these services above all, but it's also common sense. I have yet to see a bona fide story of an exposure of RL from the JLU gang -- none of them pass the test (calling Tux at work after he steals a wiki by following his IP address to the owner of servers where he stores that stolen wiki hardly constitutes exposure -- nobody seems to be available to point out that hacking and stealing that wiki was the original crime.)
The JLU/The Wrong Hands story is like a precursor and protype of WikiLeaks -- people who have terrible extremist and destructive anarchist ideologies, self-appointed assholes thinking they are doing the world a favour, hack and slash into secret government documents and then spill them, with little regard to the safety of sources. They manipulate the situation for their own selfish reasons to the max -- doling out information, selling it, collecting book contracts, even -- dining out in every way possible and staying one step of the law. Forces even more extreme than them become their bag man, hacking servers of companies that refuse to deal with them. They begin to self-implode due to their selfishness and extremism and even stupidity -- they can't seem to get any traction and gradually lose respect and power. They weren't really doing anybody any favours, and what they discovered wasn't the awful thing they thought.
Meanwhile, the people whose classified dox were spilled should have been more transparent and put more in the public domain and perhaps not have waltzed around with dictators as much as they did. The world is a nasty place. They don't look as bad as their critics and our supposed "protectors" thought they did -- but there are nonetheless disturbing facets to the material. The motives were wrong, and that doesn't sanitize the results as ultimately somehow being to the public's great benefit. The targets only become more secret; they rely less on wikis. And we will see this in miniature from the JLU, if it doesn't fall apart.
Meanwhile, I'll publicize another little "op" that came from the fellow who calls himself "Cornelius" on the Sluniverse.com threads and who seems critical of the griefers. Everyone assumes he is GLE or Kalel or somebody but he seems more restrained than they do so it could be a third party.
Within a minute of a griefer dressed as a furry named Propagandistic Resident landing on my commons in Ravenglass, I saw another avatar dressed in a female newbie outfit born 10/10/10 (is that a symbolic date or something) who suddenly started IMing me about Propagandistic.
Thinking it was just one of my tenants or their friends at first, I said "It's a griefer, help out by ARing them along with me."
I looked at his profile -- he had a picture of a RL female pointing a gun right at you. I hate things like that.
He then proceeded to somehow intimate that he was a friend, not a griefer and not the JLU and not just some passerby, somebody who was, as he put it, in category d), along with me.
The categories I had indicated that could be interested in griefers were a) griefers themselves b) the JLU c) Lindens -- and he denied being in these.
Unfortunately SL is going through one of those annoying rolling restarts where sims keep going down and nothing loads in inventory even where they aren't going down so I can't find the notecard on this guy, but it was odd that he materialized *exactly when* Propagandistic landed, and began to immediately comment on him, claiming that he knew about him because he rezzed somewhere else first (an infohub or welcome area?)
This character said he wanted to "build trust" with me but I said pointing guns wouldn't do that, and that I didn't need any JLU assistance, real or disguised. My guess was that this was a JLU character. He commented that my reports on the Fitty and Docking line of avatars were "helpful". I told him that I thought only publicizing these incidents normally on blogs and ARing them was the way to go, and that I didn't need any other secret friends, thanks. He was annoyed that I wouldn't somehow go along with him, where, I don't know, and left.
If a *source* asks me not to reveal them, I'll respect that as a journalist and blogger. But if someone comes along merely to rope me into something, I don't play.
According to Ms. Bluebird/Cornelius here, LightlyToasted Ruben, which is Robble Rubble's acknowledged alt, is the one making Propagandistic. How does Bluebird know this? Well, he must have heard them in chat somewhere, or seen a youtube or something. Robble Rubble, like Rev. Jim Jesus/Korpov Korpov/Charity Stohr are among the few very persistent griefers of me. LightlyToasted/Robble is NOT Ryokashi! Yeah, we got that straight.
-- Instant message logging enabled --
[21:53] Carissa Bluebird: Hi
[21:53] Prokofy Neva: hi
[21:54] Carissa Bluebird: that Propagandistic fellow
[21:54] Prokofy Neva: yeah I realize
[21:54] Prokofy Neva: I'm ARing him
[21:54] Prokofy Neva: you can help by ARing him yourself
[21:54] Carissa Bluebird: heres your bluebird tip of the day (night)
[21:54] Prokofy Neva: and you are....?
[21:54] Carissa Bluebird: that one talks with an effeminate lisp
[21:54] Carissa Bluebird: Toasted Ruben
[21:54] Carissa Bluebird: I know you've heard of him
[21:54] Carissa Bluebird: ; )
[21:55] Carissa Bluebird: me?
[21:55] Carissa Bluebird: A friend
[21:55] Prokofy Neva: Propagandistic is Tux Winkler
[21:55] Prokofy Neva: you're not a friend, not with a gun pointing at people, you're one of them hon
[21:55] Carissa Bluebird: no ma'am
[21:55] Carissa Bluebird: I beg to differ
[21:55] Carissa Bluebird: they hate me
[21:55] Prokofy Neva: and you are...?
[21:56] Carissa Bluebird: someone with the goods on many of them
[21:56] Prokofy Neva: well then you can AR them and not be so mysterious
[21:56] Carissa Bluebird: I will but how is that possible, I don't rent on Ravenglass
[21:56] Carissa Bluebird: I mean, I would
[21:56] Prokofy Neva: well how do you know about Propagandistic then hon?
[21:57] Prokofy Neva: seriously, you're an alt yourself and hardly credible
[21:57] Prokofy Neva: now how is it that you "just happen" to know about this minute-old alt?
[21:57] Carissa Bluebird: I watch carefully Prok
[21:57] Carissa Bluebird: and know their patterns
[21:57] Carissa Bluebird: plus I read your blog
[21:57] Carissa Bluebird: I am Cornelius
[21:58] Prokofy Neva: well then you're just a JLU alt
[21:58] Prokofy Neva: I don't like people with guns, and people who point guns in their profiles, it's creepy
[21:58] Prokofy Neva: the Lindens will deal with these people, you are not required
[21:58] Carissa Bluebird: sorry Prok, I am not JLU
[21:59] Carissa Bluebird: since you took offense, I changed that
[21:59] Carissa Bluebird: and filing ARs is the right approach
[21:59] Carissa Bluebird: no argument there
[21:59] Prokofy Neva: if you aren't JLU, why are you involved?
[21:59] Carissa Bluebird: b/c I give a shit
[21:59] Carissa Bluebird: most don't
[22:00] Prokofy Neva: well nobody else but the JLU would bother to find out "patterns" and minute-old alts, I don't bother with that, I just happened to come across yet another I'm ARing now
[22:00] Prokofy Neva: so I don't know what your game is, but it's creepy
[22:01] Carissa Bluebird: you try and inform the caring public to their antics, both sides to accurate
[22:01] Carissa Bluebird: thats admirable
[22:01] Carissa Bluebird: so don't hate others just because they care too
[22:02] Prokofy Neva: Toasted Ruben i s Ryokoshi? I mix them up
[22:02] Prokofy Neva: he sounds an awful lot like an Emerald defv
[22:02] Prokofy Neva: but maybe it's just because they're all gay or something
[22:02] Prokofy Neva: whatever, I don't have time to chase youtubes
[22:02] Carissa Bluebird: I wasn't suggesting that you do that
[22:02] Prokofy Neva: he sounds familiar tho, more than just having a typical young effiminate voice
[22:03] Prokofy Neva: Tux Winkler was the one who made the threats, of course, they could all be alts of each other
[22:04] Prokofy Neva: Propagandistic is already gone from the People List, the Lindens are moving with lightning speed now even at this hour
[22:04] Carissa Bluebird: there's not as many behind the keyboard as they portray
[22:04] Prokofy Neva: yeah there's a few
[22:04] Prokofy Neva: with time on their hands
[22:04] Prokofy Neva: but I don't mind ARing a parade of alts, eventually they go away
[22:04] Carissa Bluebird: and yes, the response time has been remarkably fast in regards to these griefers
[22:05] Prokofy Neva: so you are either a) one of them yourself b) JLU or c) a Linden
[22:05] Prokofy Neva: because no one else would be able to follow that
[22:05] Carissa Bluebird: the Fiddy Something, Docking resident coverage you provided was good stuff
[22:06] Prokofy Neva: well Ryokoshi was definitely with those two *twice* on two different sims
[22:06] Prokofy Neva: one of those times he was in a PN regalia type outfit
[22:06] Carissa Bluebird: those characters are obvious "patterned" exploitations that get looked at rather quickly
[22:06] Carissa Bluebird: a whole slew of them got nailed on those two sims before they went bye bye
[22:07] Prokofy Neva: well they claim they have a new sim, it could be a bluff
[22:07] Prokofy Neva: the Joanna Falmer character claimed that
[22:07] Carissa Bluebird: I respect your "creepy" comment btw
[22:08] Carissa Bluebird: no offense taken
[22:09] Carissa Bluebird: I hate stereotypes but there's not much that can be done about that
[22:09] Carissa Bluebird: in any event, your coverage of this, from your DIRECT perspective has been good
[22:10] Carissa Bluebird: it's unfortunate this crap goes on for so, so long, but the goons are digging their own holes
[22:10] Carissa Bluebird: so it takes time
[22:10] Prokofy Neva: well as I said, you're obviously a) one of them on a black ops or b) JLU or c) Linden
[22:10] Prokofy Neva: because there are no others with any dog in the hunt
[22:10] Prokofy Neva: so whatever
[22:10] Carissa Bluebird: Sure there are
[22:10] Carissa Bluebird: there's the d) category that you part of Prok
[22:11] Carissa Bluebird: anyway
[22:11] Carissa Bluebird: sorry to disturb you, it wasn't my intent.
[22:11] Prokofy Neva: What do you know about Tux Winkler
[22:11] Prokofy Neva: he was an under-the-radar griefer for a very long time, then he slipped up
[22:11] Prokofy Neva: what kind of character would live in London and say "you was"?
[22:13] Carissa Bluebird: with all due respect Prok, being called creepy and "one of them" doesn't lend itself to immediate willingness on my part to switch up and start asking questions. Let's build some trust and forego the name calling. I am a polite person by nature and I am only concerned with being helpful.
[22:13] Prokofy Neva: well, anonymous people aren't helpful
[22:13] Prokofy Neva: you can only fight griefing by publicity and honestly
[22:13] Prokofy Neva: *honesty
[22:14] Prokofy Neva: you have a portrait with a gun pointing at people, that's creepy
[22:14] Prokofy Neva: it's not funny
[22:14] Prokofy Neva: you appear right at the moment -- *exactly* at the moment -- that Tux is griefing me on a minute-old alt named Propagandistic
[22:14] Prokofy Neva: and you "just happen to know" about that alt
[22:14] Prokofy Neva: so you are the "good cop" of Tux's "bad cop"....or something
[22:14] Prokofy Neva: that's clear
[22:15] Prokofy Neva: I don't build trust with anonymous people playing manipulative games
[22:15] Prokofy Neva: I report on griefers and I move on
[22:15] Carissa Bluebird: that's totally understandable. I don't discount your position on any of that.
[22:16] Carissa Bluebird: Just know this, to be called creepy and then to be asked to start devulging what I know, was not congruent with building much of anything.
[22:16] Prokofy Neva: well then you're obviously not interested in *really* being helpful and truthful but just being *manipulative*
[22:16] Prokofy Neva: "building trust" and doling out info -- creepy
[22:16] Prokofy Neva: police state mentality
[22:17] Carissa Bluebird: like I said, I had (have) no intention of intruding on you. Sorry
[22:17] Prokofy Neva: AWFULLY coincidental that you show up *just* as Propagandistic shows up at my elbow, hmmm?
[22:17] Prokofy Neva: can you comment?
[22:18] Carissa Bluebird: All I can suggest that then is that you AR me as a potential alt of Propagandistic and let LL check it.
[22:18] Carissa Bluebird: And just so you know, those 0 hour old alts of theirs don't just visit your sims.
[22:19] Carissa Bluebird: But since they do make the rounds
[22:19] Carissa Bluebird: they go after the people that are giving them attention
[22:20] Carissa Bluebird: Which your blog so clearly points out.
[22:20] Prokofy Neva: I don't give them attention, I document their griefing, I have a different concept than the idea that you "don't feed the troll" -- those conceps are irrelevant to my approach
[22:21] Carissa Bluebird: You coverd the bunny suit griefer already, so it's not rocked science that a slew of new 0 hours alts will keep coming back.
[22:21] Carissa Bluebird: That most certainly was attention Prok.
[22:21] Carissa Bluebird: 0 hour bunny suits I meant to say
[22:22] Carissa Bluebird: Again, my apologies
[22:22] Carissa Bluebird: You're obviously perturbed
[22:22] Carissa Bluebird: with me
[22:22] Carissa Bluebird: Sorry
[22:22] Prokofy Neva: Covering them is documentation. At some times, it is appropriate to do that. At other times, it isn't. And I'll be the judge of it.
[22:22] Prokofy Neva: You're anonymous, and therefore you're creepy!
[22:23] Prokofy Neva: so unless you have information that checks out, and information that you give cheerfully, you should move along
[22:23] Carissa Bluebird: Good night
Ok, while it took them thousands of posts in their first thread (over 10,000) and they're 150 pages into this one:
http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/64116-jlu-privacy-crisis-infinite-threads-152.html
These griefer-losers have finally now submitted a) a complaint to the Internet cybercrimes place (Robble Rubble, no angel he, of course, has done this) and b) a complaint to the Simi Valley Police Department (I guess that's the jurisdiction where Linden Lab is? Or where Kalel is said to live?) -- Fred Rookstown, head of the PNs, has done this.
So you have two definitely dark kettles here calling a pot black, and I imagine it will go nowhere. That's because there's no case. There isn't any revelation of RL information that wasn't in the public domain; there isn't any stalking of minors or adults, it's just gameplay.
Of course, by trumping up this case and filing these complaints, these losers make it harder to really file something when there is a real privacy breach, as there evidently was with RedZone (and there, RL cops were involved long before Sharia-Slun got to it). Even so, I have my doubts about how Soft Linden and the Shariettes handled this, since neither is to be trusted.
If griefing of me continues, I'll be following in the footsteps of these two consummate griefers and filing complaints on them that will question their bona fides, and undermine their case.
So if they care about their privacy and curbing the JLU, it would be in their best interests to cease their griefing of me, now that all their accounts are banned and even some alts are likely hash-banned.
I will go on reporting on any and all griefing that appears to be releated to Woodbury/The Wrong Hands and I will gather together my own complaints and make them to these authorities just so they have some perspective on all this.
But I suspect that they will have nothing to warrant any search of LL's servers or anything of the kind.
Posted by: Prokofy Neva | September 21, 2011 at 04:56 PM
Posted this in the wrong thread, a creepy quote, how can SLU expect anything they say to be creditable when this is the type that hang there
Quote from creepy man child ING
Actually, 30 states legally set the age of consent to 16. 8 states are 17 and the remaining 12 are 18. So, technically, 16 can be an "adult" for half the country. (^_^)
I live in an "18" state. (^_^)y
why does i know this, Why does a grown up man know this
Posted by: karla dorn | September 21, 2011 at 09:10 PM
@karla http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/50043-too-little-too-late.html#post1040005 Best Immy SLU thread ever
Posted by: anonymous | September 21, 2011 at 10:51 PM