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July 10, 2012


Kim Anubis

After the way you treated me when I rented a booth from you, I have no sympathy for you.

Have you heard the rumor your former tenants are chipping in to pay a messenger service to deliver a flaming bag of poo to your RL doorstep?

Those who pledge L$5k or more will get a link to the live video stream, a Ban Prok button, and a box of chalk. I need to hurry and find out where to sign up, because I hear the first fifty pledges each get a full color 8 by 10 glossy photo of the impressive roids you've developed from all your strenuous pushing back.

Prokofy Neva

I'm sure your memory of renting a booth from me is very selective, Kim.

This scatalogical post seems over the top even for you.

Juhani Jarvinen

Prok, did you check that the landmark you sent really worked? I bet you didn't. Because you have forced a landing point in Refugio all LM's take you there, not to the desrired destination. That's why Leena never found the booth she rented, even when you sent a new LM.

Instead of helping her out or refunding the rent you affronted her public on your blog. Not very professional.

Kim Anubis

I remember renting a booth to sell eggs, and after some days or (iirc) weeks, suddenly being thrown out of the group I needed to be in in order to manage my objects on the parcel. There was no explanation, just the automated notification. Upon asking WTF, I found you decided I was suddenly, at that point, your enemy, and that was your excuse.

This didn't happen right after one of the flamewars we had, or after you snubbed me at SLCC (you bitch about being an outcast but are rude when someone tries to say hello), nor after our previous business dealings (like that floating island my team built for you), or after recommending your infohub and blog in my second SL official guide.

Just totally out of the blue one day, without explanation, you tossed me out of the group. You threw me out of the group, but didnt give me a refund on my remaining time -- when I complained you said this hadnt hurt my ability to use the rental booth, because my stuff could still sit there for sale. However, I had no ability to rez more merchandise or displays, and so couldn't use up the prim count I paid for. Real nice. Is that how slumlords do things in Nooyawkcity?

I can't recall if you then wheezed something belatedly about being able to get a refund from the rental box, as you usually do, because by that point I was less interested in the few L$ involved and more concerned about having to set up shop all over again somewhere else, and even more by your freaky b.s. about why you'd done it.

You went on to post some offal about how I might be there spying for profitable ideas about virtual chicken farms. As if being in the group with no discussions in it would give me all sorts of inside info I couldn't get from standing around your almost completely vacant market.

I rented from you because the markets I liked were full or the rentals weren't automated and I was tired of trying to contact the owners. Even though you were Prok, I thought you at least knew how to do business, manage rentals, and advertise a market.

Unfortunately, I was wrong on all three counts.

If, after taking my money for a while, you decided you just found it uncomfortable having me around for some reason, you should have just hit the IM button and contacted me, like a reasonable person, and I would have made arrangements with you to take a refund and move, or just leave when my current rental term ended. Instead, you acted like a giant coward for some unknown reason, and later tried to claim you did it because I was allegedly your political enemy -- you even tried to smear me on your blog over it.

You knew I was renting there before that, though -- obviously, you watch your transactions closely, if you noticed when I was the only one to put a donation in your Belarus bucket. Not to mention my great big logo sign on my booth a few down from your own. Something set you off, and I don't know what it was, but it wasn't me. You just went off on me.

Sort of the way you went off on this other tenant after giving them a malfunctioning landmark.

To me, the egg booth is trivia from a long time ago, and these days I'd rather laugh at you than bother posting a comment on your blog. However, I couldn't just sit here and watch you drag another former tenant through the mud without speaking up.

Guitar String

Honestly I think Prok handled this one pretty well. Better than most rentals as far as service goes, most places would have said "oh well" and you'd be lucky to get some notification much less an extra day. Could Prok have checked the LM, sure, but that happens, especially if you're in a hurry, preoccupied, or flustered (because you just deleted someones stuff by accident). I think there may have been an issue with native languages here, from the log it didn't seem like the renter had a good grasp on English and became frustrated a little too easily. I really don't think this was a case for "rental dementia" though and I'm a little disappointed that this particular renter is being called out. You were this >< close to getting the service right on this one Prok, baby steps though, so keep up the good work. As for being professional, well, you know it really can't be easy to be a professional victim, I guess this case just shows how slim the pickings are for poor old Prok these days. C'est la vie..

Prokofy Neva

1. I went back, stood by the stall, made a landmark, then tested it. And it went exactly to that place.

2. Even if she somehow landed in the middle of the sim, she'd still see the plaza with the stalls across the water.

3. Usually when I rent a stall somewhere myself, I make a landmark of it for just this reason.

4. These prims weren't returned maliciously, they were returned (all 4 of them) accidently. Compensation was immediately given and a landmark sent. I didn't do anything wrong.

5. When people still continue to be assholes to you after you've done the right thing by them, then it's time to fight back and call them out. Otherwise, you get endless bad behaviour and entitlement-happy hysteria in SL. There's all too much of that in RL and SL.

6. It's not about "being professional". That's ridiculous. It's about not letting people walk all over you and threaten you and harm your business. If you've given someone compensation and they are misbehaving, you can't start pretending that "professional" means that you try to soothe and placate them some more. No way. Then they will take more and still dis you.

No, people have to realize that when they harass you by threatening to blacken your reputation for no good reason, that you will fight back and blacken *their* reputation for every good reason.

7. Obviously the publicity I can give to this incident for those who chose it to see it that way is more bad publicity for my alleged "bad behaviour" than it is for this person's obvious bad behaviour.

But I don't care. I fight back. You cannot casually threaten me to badmouth me for no good reason when I've in fact compensated you and attempted to help you.

"Guitar String" is likely the same griefer harassing me on my sims now, because the latest alt of this griefer went around telling my group members that they were documenting my "abuses" and bad behaviour as a landlord that "returned people's prims without reason" blah blah blah.

I never *delete* prims. It's not possible to delete another person's prims unless you return them and they delete because deeded no-transfer prims destroy upon return (they have no owner but "the group" -- a perfect case of Second Life communism). I return them to inventory.

Juhani Jarvinen

Prok, I've followed your blog since 2008 I joined SL. I've seen how you've been griefed and you have fought back. That's very understandable. I am also a good SL friend of Leena so I wanted to tell the other side of the story, which seemed to raise a storm on the waterclass. I kind of understand both of you.

First of all, I just visited Refugio, created a landmark on position 151,94,72 where the stall was located. When I teleported there I was routed to the forced landing point 200,212,39. Don't know how you managed to have your landmark working, but the whole episode started from this thing, Refugio has a forced landing point and therefore the landmarks don't work. May be because of 3rd part viewers, server version, windlight, mesh :D I don't really know but as long as you have that forced landing point the landmarks don't work.

You deleted the prims accidently, that happens, and you managed that pretty well. But this wasn't a case of rental dementia, Leena has paid you 60 days forehead but wasn't able to find the stall. Call me retarded, but to be honest, Refugio isn't the easiest place to navigate, it took me some time and heavy area search to find the stall. If I'd ever rent a market place the first affirmation would be that landmarks that I share would take me directly to the stall, not to the landing point.

So, Leena couldn't find the place, she frustrated and overreacted. So did you.

I have rented from various landlords during my SL era, had good experiences and bad ones. As Guitar String mentioned, there must have been some communication failures between you two, mostly because of different time zones and that English isn't Leena's native language (neither is mine). That's where some diplomacy is needed.

It's not about deleting prims or refunding money. It's about the way you treat your paying customers. Let's take a RL example. You own a little bookstore downtown in NY (which I believe would be a nice job for you). A customer comes, buys a book from you, then returning back telling that the book was lousy one and she never buys anything from you. How would you handle the situation? Publishing her name on your web site telling everybody "do not sell anything to this guy"?

Prokofy Neva

Again, please note that comments here, even if they are viciously attacking me, are never deleted or censored. They are allowed to stand unless a) a first and last SL name or authentic RL name isn't used or b) incitement or cause of significant SL or RL damages have been caused.

More and more, posts end up in the spam file on Typepad for reasons that elude me -- for key words or length or who the hell knows. I can only come every day or two to fish them out.

Since you're a friend of Leena's, you're a self-interested party. I checked the landmark *again* and it landed exactly in front of her stall *again*.

The only thing I can think may be at issue here is *the group tag*. If you have the group tag activated, landmarks to precise positions, and to landing points set up into skyboxes for example, DO work. I've seen this frustration before with tenants setting a skybox landmark, seeing that it works, but then finding their friends without the group tag on not finding it to work. Actually, that's one of the many reasons I maintain an OPEN group that doesn't make people queue up for invitations.

Try joining the open group, and try the landmark again, and you'll see the issue.

Refugio doesn't have a "forced" landing -- it has a normal landing point that all mainland sims have. You h ave to set a landing point or people land in walls or water, der. That lands you at a plaza where the information notecards are. If you type "Refugio" into the map list, you will land there, but you'll see the red vector line still leading you to 128/128, the default landing point for all mainland sims.

Landmarks work to take you to the landing point. I've noticed that SLURLS and landmarks made in 1.23 can not work sometimes in 3.x. But since I now essentially am forced to use 3.x most of the time because many new customers use it, I was on 3.x when I made the landmark. Often people are on Phoenix and Leena may be on Phoenix, but the landmark should work to take her to a normal landing point, if not to the exact point, so the fussing here is misapplied.

The idea that "as long as you have forced landing points, landmarks don't work" isn't true IF YOU HAVE THE GROUP TAG ON.

Even if she landed at the forced point, or the 128/128 point, seeing the stalls where she rented would have been an easy matter, as they are just across the water. A simple fly-over was required -- you know, you can fly in Second Life.

Her anger was completely unwarranted when she was COMPENSATED and HELPED. She could have said, "I didn't find it, can you TP me" instead of immediately moving to the usually fucked-up entitlement-happy attitude of the typical brainless Second Lifer, which is FUCK YOU I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU OVER BY SLAMMING YOUR BUSINESS TO ALL MY FRIENDS.

I'm here to train her out of that attitude by having consequences to her bad actions. That's all you can do in SL where there are no courts, so that you can't protect your business when people harass and threaten you this way.

This isn't about a "communication failure," it's about Leena being an asshole. When someone COMPENSATES you, APOLOGIZES, and HELPS you by sending you a landmark and adding money to your box, you don't react by trying to fuck them over. You don't go into high dudgeon with the typical unjustified landlord-hatred and spew hate.

If you have TREATED A PERSON WELL by APOLOGIZING, COMPENSATING, AND HELPING, and then THEY MISTREAT YOU, then they don't get to be an asshole without consequences.

Um, thanks for thinking up "nice little jobs" for me that involve dying and non-viable businesses. If someone returned a book and said they'd never buy anything from me and would tell their friends, sure, I'd use any and all means, including Twitter or my blog, to tell the world what an asshole they were, so that other people doing business with them would BEWARE.

Hence this post. Any and all persons who rent to Bloody Leena have to realize that nobody how good your rentals are, no matter how much service you offer, no matter what refunds or compensations you offer, they will still try to fuck you over.

I didn't overreact: I did what is right, just, and proper to get people in SL to stop being assholes. That's what it's about. It's about teaching lessons and backing them up with consequences for bad behaviour. You don't get to hide behind lack of English -- Leena sure has enough English to threaten me with badmouthing my business, in any language she speaks.

The notion that "diplomacy" is needed over a "communications breakdown" based on non-native English belongs to this entire bullshit "progressive" mush-brained approach that leads to such bad results in our society. What happened here isn't a shortfall in "diplomacy" or "communications"; what happened here is that one person was a vicious bitch -- Leena. She behaved badly over nothing, even when compensated and helped and even with a refund. That person should have either moved on without comment or simply asked for a TP or explained they weren't finding their box, and THANKED the landlord for the compensation. THAT is the issue -- recognition of a violation of behaviour standards and the need not to behave badly, not this feel-good "reconciliation" crap.

Again, people who can't locate their own box are the initial problem here, but Leena escalated it only for herself by being the typical witless vindictive bitch that the entitlement-happy culture breeds. I'm not here to help that. I'm here to create firewalls against it.

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