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« Millenium Sands Herald Reporter Lounging with Griefer at My Office | Main | Coney Island of the Mind »

August 02, 2012

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Laetizia Coronet

I think that these most egregrious forms of griefing can be stopped by improving (or implementing, maybe there is none) the protocol which recognizes the viewer used to log on to SL. No 'regular' viewer (this includes the benevolent alternative viewers out there), no dice.

insider

You really want to know the truth Prok? You're close to it, LL are the "griefers" and the greifers are the lab, the lab is the griefers. They really are tasked with devaluing the mainland. Eventually the lab will shut the mainland down entirely and will use the above as just one more excuse to do so. Its all going to plan.


You have a great day now, y'hear?

Eric Metropolitan

Prokofy, I hate to tell you this, but the ONLY griefers who would be able to do the things you describe (building on your land without permission, banning you from your land and so forth) would be Linden lab employees (remember Rodney?)

Siana Gearz

Laetizia, that can't work. It's way trivial to pretend to be another viewer.

I know what you're thinking, many Windows games use a service which authenticates the executable and scans the memory of the machine for cheating software. Well guess what, the signalling of the service to the server can be spoofed too. And besides, SL Viewer isn't just available for Windows. A malicious client can simply pretend to connect from a Mac.

And i don't even think that's the issue. I think there's a lot by which LL can detect that someone is up to no good with reasonably high probability, yet no absolute certainty, but chances are, there isn't personnel to take care of those red flag signals coming in. You'd just be adding an extra red flag to be ignored.

Qopi Pink

You are likely just going paranoid and imagining things. If someone are really changing your objects, building on your land and banning you from your land, it can ONLY be either because you have left your objects on share, are allowing it to happen in the settings etc, or it must be a Linden employee, maybe a new (or old for that sake) hire in the coding department or something.

Ahab Qvetcher

Thank you for this post.

melponeme_k

Besides Eve Online, Second Life is the only other game that allows griefers to "play".

Their game is causing anger and frustration to other players. EO coddles them. SL coddles them. Either company only relents when things go so far off the scale it could cause them to lose money.

Why do they allow it? It can only be because some of their employees (CCP and LL) were once of the griefer class. They think it's funny and let the games play on as a kind of twist psych experiment.

It is even more fun to know that we are paying for this abuse (CCP charges a sub and Tier fees might as well be counted as sub fees too).

Anon

Ever wonder what happens when the simulator tries to return objects for accounts that no longer exist?

Laetizia Coronet

Qopi, google "Shooped Life". Anything is possible when you're using a custom-made viewer with God powers. Not so long ago, Lindens found themselves teleported off to random places.

Or just stick your head in the sand and sing LALALALA. Your call.

Qopi Pink

Laetizia, Laetizia. Middle aged women should not have strong opinions on things they know little about. Shooped Life is years old, hacked viewers these days have different names. I'm very familiar with what these viewers can do. The things Prokofy mentions, including building on her land without permission, banning her from her land, or changing her objects, are impossible even on a hacked client, unless you are a Linden or have Linden powers that you can not get merely by using a hacked viewer. So for the knowledgeable, only two possibilities remain: Prokofy is imagining or making this stuff up, or she is griefed by a Linden employee or someone who is a lot closer to Linden Lab than a random griefer on a hacked viewer would be.

Ahab Qvetcher

Q Pink:

One of the singers I work with in SL has had three different episodes in the last week, involving three different sims and venues. They cannot all be operator error, and they do involve the exploits that Prok is talking about, and others. I do not speculate about the cause, but SOMETHING is going on. It is comparatively few episodes now, but if it spreads/gets worse/ increased, it is a serious concern.

Laetizia Coronet

Qopi, your name is not an SL username, so I don't see why anyone should take you for an expert on anything SL related.
Something is going on and if you insist on denying that, than maybe you're part of the problem.

Amanda Dallin

I had long standing prims forced off my region by a replicating object about 4 to 6 months ago. It's not happened again and I was on their when it happened so managed to contain and delete the objects but about 1/4 of the buildings were returned to the inventories of the two of us who built the place. I noticed it because they started by placing several large invisible prim over the region. I had trouble clicking on anything until at first but realized what they'd done. Since it was a private island I sent a ticket to LL and they rolled it back.

They were able to force the return of objects just as Prok says. I have no reason to doubt the rest of his claims.

Could a viewer be spoofed to make the server think it is a Linden's viewer?

Joshiano Yip

Prok I notice you always plug sluniverse even though you made so many claims about them harassing you and you hate the site so much.

Why do you keep plugging them on your blog if you don't want anything to do with them? It seems like you are just inviting them to harass you.

This isn't the first time I asked this on your blog seems like you hide any comments asking you about why you keep communicating with people who are supposedly harassing you.

Siana Gearz

Amanda, yes, the viewer built from LL's public source is probably already almost indistinguishable from LL viewer. At least initially - once you start doing shady things, red flags do go up!

Laetizia: "Anything is possible when you're using a custom-made viewer with God powers." This is not generally the case! As per SL architecture, the viewer has no authority, the complete authority is at the simulator side. If you try to modify the viewer to request actions you're not allowed to, generally, nothing happens, and a person at LL gets sent a notice of this. So not only will you have accomplished nothing, somebody at LL will eventually start watching you very closely.

The original god-mode hack was really elaborate, as far as i heard, involving multiple simulator servers and another entity. So removal of limitations and checks in the viewer was only an small part of the hack. The way it was done, it's possible to close that category of exploit once and forever by using verification of all authoritative connection partners, a viewer should never be able to become one. If i have left something unclear, i can elaborate this privately. Of course i'm not entitled to very specific information, but everything i heard tells me that this exploit was closed forever.

Now, there can still be single bugs, exploits, new, yet to be discovered and patched up, which would allow the client either to perform an action not within his frame of privileges, or escalate his privileges generally. All information regarding these MUST be directed at LL - knowledge about possibly still existing exploits must not be circulated openly.

Prokofy Neva

@Joshiano: No People List, no posting.

And this is just the usual trolling. I don't "plug" Sluniverse.com merely because I link to an article to show what they are doing in order to criticize it; that's called "polemics," but I guess it goes over your little head.

No comments are "hidden" or banned unless you don't have a first and last SL name that is legitimate or RL or bloggers name that isn't fake, either. You get one shot and then you have to give your actual main account and take responsibility for your hatred. That's all.

Er, "communicating" with people means talking to them. Linking to a blog to comment on it isn't "communicating". What an ass.

As for the Herald, I make a policy of not linking to them unless it's some really super important story of national security or something. But generally I find them so reprehensible I won't even link to them.


Sluniverse is made up of a bunch of whiner oldbies who don't even log into SL any more. Why Rod Linden goes there and comments and graces it with his presence is beyond me! I'd like to get him to comment on the sort of griefing I've described here!

Dr Langway

Prokofy please, please listen to what you are told?

You should be taking 2 of the blue pills in the morning, one of green pills at midday and 3 of the white pills before bed.

If you take the pills as prescribed they will help control the griefer hallucinations.

I am sorry but I must go now as I wish to purchasing Maryport Island and Coast for the very cheap price of only L$2/m, thank you for posting this information on your blog, it is a lovely spot.

I am looking forward to living on the this beautiful island in my most lovely Siggy Romulus Beach House I have been lucky to obtain.

I wish you and your readers well and recommend to you all to take medications as prescribed and should the symptoms persist please contact your local health professional as soon as possible.

Ahab Qvetcher

@ Dr Langway: There is absolutely no need to be insulting about this; it typifies the reaction one finds, however, when one challenges the dominant SL narrative, I find.

Prok is merely reporting what has been observed by many others--a new form of griefing in a number of places which seems to override controls in a way that should not be possible. But though it should not be possible it is--see Amanda's comment above.

One can stand for the implementation of order, or one can stand with the griefers. If one continues to find a mentality of standing with the griefers among both fashion setters in SL, such as are found in SLUniverse, and among some at LL, one can expect that people will find other ways to spend their finite life spans; if SL continues to favor griefers, and other such, there is no need for decent folk to waste time on it.

Witness Melpomene's comment and Amanda's. Taken together they ought to be a wake up call if you don't wish to enjoy your fancy house on your island all by yourself.

Prokofy Neva

Dr. Langway, you aren't in the people list so provide a valid first and last SL name or you can't post here.

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