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« Rodvik Finally Explains Why He Closed the JIRA | Main | Notorious Permabanned Griefers of Second Life Form Steam Community to Welcome New Players »

September 14, 2012

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MLGPROSTEAM

Questions one and two could easly be answered by making a steam account and just checking out what it really is. Steam is just a host service that Valve offers to game devs so that they could make more sales and distribute their games to a larger community.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Mr. Neva, sometimes I think your dislike of geeks and things related to them leads to you being ill-informed and to assume the worst of such things.

But then, I know little about being a Land Baron so it all evens out in the end.

Valve has NOT bought Linden Lab it would have been BIG news.

Steam is essentially PLaystation Network or Xbox Live for the PC.

Steam will soon have a category for non-game software...that's where SL will be.

Being on Steam doesn't mean that SL will have ANY Steam integration, other than being able to download it and launch it from Steam. SL will still have it's own registration and login system.

You can already download games on Steam, like MMO's, that have their OWN login systems, communication tools and marketplaces, like LOTRO (Turbine Account). Eve Online (CCP account). Final Fantasy XI (Square-Enix's PlayOnline), that are totally separate from Steam. You don't communicate IN these games using Steam, but their own systems. Steam is just an easy way to buy, download and launch such games.

You can actually use steam to Launch non-Steam games you buy on our own either online or brick and mortar stores, just to keep all your games in "one place"

Steam does have communication tools...chat, message boards...they are separate from any similar things individual games might have.

So in other words, it's just another way for Linden Lab to market and distribute SL.

c3

no question is dumb... thats how you learn to ask the right questions....

as for answers.... basically, crono is correct.

as for what "deals" were made to be made accessable to the Steam apps/site... and how they may affect the "customers" that use SL not only for a game but a small business as well?.. its fair to ask...and it would be fair for LL to respond.... but as my last post states... were just customers, and if another higher ROI can be found elswhere, you can be sure LL will take it.

nothing any different in all the years... except maybe the realization of more that this is what it "really" was all about... not any "metaverse" or "betterverse" etc... just dollars, using cult methods to market since if you succeed, they are cheaper dollar wise than paying for marketing productions in an ecosystem of others who need to pay for food and rent.

John Galt

Rumors have been circulating a lot lately about Hissyfits (aka Tizzers Foxchase) possibly being a Linden.

This would explain why they let him hang around-- even with all the wonderful proof you provide regarding his misdeeds on your blog.

Ahab Qvetcher

I suspect the time to settle up and sell out draws near for those with virtual investments in SL. It was fun while it lasted, but sooner or later the frontier is settled, the new comers are far from desireable neighbors and it becomes more of a treatment than a treat.

Prokofy Neva

Look CronoCloud, you're showing a lack of reading comprehension despite your seeming coding "brilliance".

Derr, I get what Steam is, herr. The Lindens posted an announcement about it, I read up on Sluniverse.com, I went to the site itself, I asked my son who was on it, blah blah. It's not rocket science. It's a network/community of games which enables you to move your game from place to place without having to worry about losing the key, enables you to chat with your friends, etc. etc. We get all that.

My questions aren't about needing to understanding what Steam is.

My question is about understanding THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

DERR I get it that the Lindens appear not to have sold their software. Yeah, we would have read that on TechCrunch or some industry paper. But that's not the point. The point is to hear it from Rodvik IN HIS OWN WORDS. SOME kind of sale of SOMETHING was made. I'd like to see other analogies of things as large as Second Life, with their own economies and user base and user generated content *also* listed on Steam -- i.e. not these little runt indy games or other games that seem now subsumed by Steam even if they have their own nominal companies. I want to hear them explain it and hear it out.

And DUHHH we get it that Steam will soon have a non-game software section where WE THINK SL has been slotted BUT WE DON'T KNOW AS IT HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED BY LL. That's why it's worth ASKING. Is it going to be double listed? Is it going to imply that it's like Garry's Mod or whatever where you can be in a kind of way-station between games and make game stuff, either stand alone or as prototypes to other games? Let's hear what the use cases really are, as conceived not by fanboyz now no longer even able to harass people on the JIRA, like yourself, but from LL, mkay?

Given that SL is a kind of unique hybrid of a thing -- open-ended, with user generated content, an economy, etc. -- sort of like the grey economies of WoW or something, but more open -- then I'd like to hear about how this economic relationship will pan out ESPECIALLY because of The New York Times interview with Newell in which his lofty claims about wanting to keep independent himself were shown to be inconsistent when it came to deals with other, i.e. EA.com found that he didn't want to let them KEEP THE REVENUE FROM THEIR OWN DIGITAL CONTENT SALES. THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO WORRY, DUH.

It's not another way to market and distribute ONLY. Because the answers to all these questions need answering for the user base that in fact already has an internal ecosystem marketing and distributing, thank you very much. That's just the issue. Gor or Furries or even non-Wishbringer Elves and the pet world all have their own content and RP and networking ecosystems without Steam, and it's not clear how Steam is a match. Communities like this have always seemed opaque to Rod as drivers of the economy, he still tends to think of it merely as an indy games platform manquee that could still be rescued.

As for this, "Being on Steam doesn't mean that SL will have ANY Steam integration, other than being able to download it and launch it from Steam. SL will still have it's own registration and login system."

You know who asked this question before me? Gwyn Llewelyn, a developer and long-time friend of the Lindens who used to be more of an insider but now has this question as all of us could. Because if there are way more Steam users than SL users, and Steam users overwhelm SL, as they might, then maybe the log-on will be changed for their convenience.

Show me another robust game with digital content sales with revenue generated, from game gods or users or both, that has advertising on Steam, but separate log-on, and then I might see how this co-existence might work.

Most people are passive about this, saying "wait and see" and figuring that any advertising gimmick for SL is to the good. Oh, yeah? Mark this blog and see if you are whining in a year's time.

Adeon Writer

The image you provide for "Ridculing" the CEO of Valve is actually a peice titled "Half Life 3" by Darren Geers, and was made as love letter to Gabe and his company. You can view it in full here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wotmlH_2BSU

Live a little.
-Ade

Prokofy Neva

Um, it doesn't matter, and der, I got it about Half Life because that's written on there. And I get it that the tubby CEO has his ardent fanboyz and he apparently tolerates the form their love takes -- truly I do. There are other pieces including a strange sculpture that are less flattering, but I'm sure he thinks it's all grand and this sort of griefer humour is part of his own culture.

Breen Whitman

It is worth reading Notch's reason why Minecraft investigated, and rejected Steam.

Thus, one presumes, Lindens decided what Notch thought were negatives, weren't negatives enough for the Lindens.

http://notch.tumblr.com/post/9550850116/why-no-steam-notch

Prokofy Neva

Good find, Breen. And yes, I want to know why the Minecraft guy feels he can't sell capes or have maps and marketplaces and such on Steam, and why he talks about "ownership of the platform" as if putting a game on there isn't merely a listing or a marketing thing, like being in a directory, but is going on that platform and being subsumed by that.

And that's EXACTLY what I want to clear up. I wonder why I am the only one.

c3

platforms om top of platforms..lol

JENGA

all fall down

on top of who?

CronoCloud Creeggan

Mr. Neva wrote: Look CronoCloud, you're showing a lack of reading comprehension despite your seeming coding "brilliance".

############################

I am not a coder, I can't code my way out of a paper bag. I have said so many many times, including other comments here. The fact that you didn't see that...means you're letting your "axe to grind against geeks/nerds/open source users" blind you. And that's "Ms. Creeggan" to you, CC to my friends. Since you were once a founder of Caledon, I use respectful Caledon style pronouns. I would like the same courtesy.

Mr. Neva wrote:

My question is about understanding THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

###########################

I was under the impressiong that the Lindens already said what it was, SL will be "listed" which is a VERY specific thing.

Mr Neva wrote:

The point is to hear it from Rodvik IN HIS OWN WORDS. SOME kind of sale of SOMETHING was made.

################################

Why do you think a sale was made? What implies that? In fact, Linden Lab might have actually had to pay Valve a flat fee to have SL listed.

Mr. Neva wrote:

I'd like to see other analogies of things as large as Second Life, with their own economies and user base and user generated content *also* listed on Steam -- i.e. not these little runt indy games or other games that seem now subsumed by Steam even if they have their own nominal companies.

#################################

I already told you. LOTRO (That's Lord of the Rings Online) by Turbine, Eve Online by CCp, Final Fantasy XI by Square-Enix, etc etc. They are available on Steam but have always been independent, and their own companies. I have accounts with all 3 companies behind them, but have never used Steam. In Fact, Square-Enix's PlayOnline service IS basically a sort of Steam for it's own online games. Final Fantasy XI predates Steam, you know. Square-Enix has ten times more employees than Valve does, being a multi-platform company. Turbine is owned by Warner Bros, and even tiny CCP is bigger than Valve.

Mr. Neva wrote:

And DUHHH we get it that Steam will soon have a non-game software section where WE THINK SL has been slotted BUT WE DON'T KNOW AS IT HAS NOT BEEN CONFIRMED BY LL.
##########################################

I thought LL did that already in their early announcements.

Mr Neva wrote:

Is it going to be double listed?

#######################################

Does it really matter whether it is or not?

Mr Neva wrote:

Let's hear what the use cases really are, as conceived not by fanboyz now no longer even able to harass people on the JIRA, like yourself, but from LL, mkay?

#############################################

Excuse me? I have NEVER harassed someone on the Jira. Go ahead and check. And ask the people who know me in SL about me. Ask Guvnah Shang if you want.

Mr Neva wrote:

I'd like to hear about how this economic relationship will pan out ESPECIALLY because of The New York Times interview with Newelli

#######################################
Newell has always been prone to grandiose statements and then not following up on them.

Mr. Neva wrote:

It's not another way to market and distribute ONLY.

############################

Yes it is, because, as I said, there's games already on there that use Steam for solely such a purpose.

Mr. Neva wrote:

Gor or Furries or even non-Wishbringer Elves and the pet world all have their own content and RP and networking ecosystems without Steam, and it's not clear how Steam is a match.

###############################

I know that...but as I said.... Steam is not going to change Second Life. The Lindens themselves said that:

"What does this news mean for Second Life? You'll still be able to access Second Life just as you can today; there won't be any change to that. ""

Mr. Neva wrote:

As for this, "Being on Steam doesn't mean that SL will have ANY Steam integration, other than being able to download it and launch it from Steam. SL will still have it's own registration and login system."

You know who asked this question before me? Gwyn Llewelyn, a developer and long-time friend of the Lindens who used to be more of an insider but now has this question as all of us could.
#######################################

I know, and I was surprised she did. She of all people is not very prone to posting "The sky is falling" type things, and she should have known how Steam works with other games that have their own infrastructures.

Mr Neva wrote:

Because if there are way more Steam users than SL users, and Steam users overwhelm SL, as they might, then maybe the log-on will be changed for their convenience.
###############################

I don't think Steam users will "overwhelm" SL, we may get some curious folk. But like Gwyn once said, I believe that the people out there who have "any" interest in an open-ended virtual world like SL (and others) is already IN SL (or one of the others) In other words, I think SL is a niche.

Mr. Neva wrote:

Show me another robust game with digital content sales with revenue generated, from game gods or users or both, that has advertising on Steam, but separate log-on, and then I might see how this co-existence might work.

###########################

I did that already. LOTRO and Eve Online both have digital content sales, Also in Eve, there is a way to convert your in-game "cash" into RL game timevia the items called "Plesk"

Mr. Neva wrote: Oh, yeah? Mark this blog and see if you are whining in a year's time.
##############################

And if I'm right about there being no real integration other than being able to acquire the client, and perhaps keep it up to date via steam, when SL hits steam "soon", will you directly say. "CC was right, I was being a bit paranoid about this issue."?


Prokofy Neva

You really should learn to code, CCC, you have the same nasty coder culture down pat, you'd only have to just do the math.

We all have no doubt -- except you -- that money changed hands here to help the ailing SL, and it flowed in the direction toward LL, not away from LL.

The "grandiose statement" about EA.com not making the deal with Valve was made by...Ea.com They couldn't get all the revenue from the digital sales. And more cool and more loved Minecraft *said the same thing* about not being able to "sell capes" and therefore not getting listed on Steam. So those are definitely red flags.

The Lindens said *then* that there is "no change" but...we don't know the answers to all the questions here and there might very well be. They didn't say a word about the marketplace or Lindex. You're just being contrarian because you don't like me or my blog.

Eve Online has a very strong identity and community and the game company even created a player council.

Second Life doesn't have a player council and the JIRA closed.

Which "game" might do better on Steam and survive the crush?

Gwyn raised these issues even before I did, they are all legitimate questions to ask, and we need answers NOT FROM YOU but from Rodvik.

CronoCloud Creeggan

Mr. Neva wrote:

you have the same nasty coder culture down pat, you'd only have to just do the math.
#############################

What do you mean by that? You know I'm not part of that culture. If you think that telling you you're ill-informed, jump to conclusions and assume the worst about issues because of your "obsessions" is nasty...well you're wrong.

Linden Lab is not a democracy, it's a private company. They don't have to listen to you or me or justify anything to us.

Would you expect Sony or GM, or any other company to tell the people who buy it's products every single detail of their business?

I know people like us feel "invested" in SL, but we don't "own" it. What you're wanting LL to do is basically for a private company to behave in a "socialistic anti-capitalist" manner

And you're correct, Mr. Neva, I don't much care for your viewpoint at all, I think you're so blinded by your biases you would see communists at a John Birch society meeting.

I also think you'd rather call people names here, knowing you can get away with it, rather than admit to being wrong about things. I also think that deep down that you think YOU should be FIC and resent those who you think are "FIC", like Desmond and others. Still can't belive that you think Lyndon Heart is FIC....

But since you are known as an honest landlord (I've actually recommended renting from Ravenglass to others) and help newbies, were a founder of Caledon, and say insightful things now and then, when you aren't been unpleasant. I can tolerate the stuff I don't like, to a certain extent.

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