This is Sad - Have to Take Down Entire Build in Ross

This is Sad - Have to Take Down Entire Build in Ross It's just insane... Visit Ross (90, 179, 86)

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Comments

[Amanda Dallin]

What happened?

[RedMokum Bravin]

I stayed up two hours later than I had planned yesterday since I wanted to see the structure before it would be taken down.
While I was still moving around with the camera I was suddenly not allowed on the land any longer. Fortunately everything had rezzed properly before that happened.
Well, the parcel owner is always right I guess. :-(

[Prokofy Neva]

RedMokum Bravin is with the MaltaGraphics group -- he and his alts have been harassing me.

Still waiting to find out if RedMokum is the one who filed the complaint about the boats in the first place.

It's not possible for us to ban people like this nuisance with the grief build and harassment RedMokum from *Linden land* -- or ban Miateriza Parx from the infohub griefer regulars who also hovered around like a vulture yesterday.

But on my own land *adjacent* to the infohub, I sure as hell will ban them.

[RedMokum Bravin]

Telling you repeatedly that your behaviour is not friendly, is harassing. Now we have established that.
Next point. We can sail from Atis, Carlisle and Geoduck, all bordering public sailable waters. Then there is also the vastness of the Blake Sea.
So no, we did not file a complaint. I only went to take a look at Ross because you wrote about it.
BTW your huge banlists on every single tiny parcel may just lag a sim. How about getting a centralised and/or networked system?

[Prokofy Neva]

Yes, repeatedly contacting someone who tells you to piss off repeatedly is *stalking*. So we've established that. You're *stalking me* and pretending to be different alts in your group because you apparently have *no life*.

Banlists don't "lag a sim," that's ridiculous. There's no correlation between ban lists and lag. Meanwhile, security systems *do* lag the sim. And I don't believe in them. I don't use them. So be on your way. And take down the grief build next to Whiskey. You're destroying the view for all your neighbours, that's outrageous.

[Jadeclaw]

Just for fun I took my lion butt over there and did this:
http://sl.jadeclaw.de/Snapshot_446.png
I caught 419 objects with a land impact of 1807.
About Land shows:
Capacity 937
Impact 2125.

With 419 objects, that leaves only 2 prims per object to not to exceed the limit set for this parcel. One example: The textile dye assembly in front of the Ravenglass pavillion alone has an LI of 53. And is made out of a lot of parts. So I'm not surprised about the readings I got. If the stuff on the other parcel was as detailed, then I guess, both builds together were way over the combined limit for both parcels.

However, I still think, that the handling of this case by Guy Linden was atrocious - to put it mildly. Plus it makes one wonder, why so suddenly, the prims didn't suddenly appear overnight.

A sidenote: There was this one day old thing in a schoolgirl style dress, that was constantly buzzing around me. Methinks, she had never seen a lion in a red fundoshi before. ;-)

[Prokofy Neva]

Thanks for that reading.

I don't know if there are actually 419 objects on there.

Some are complex, but not really that primmy. The big marketplace was about 140. The textile dye thing may be 53, but then there are only about three more other building pieces, and I think none of them are more than about 600.

I just don't understand why these prims appeared like this when before, I never saw them. I just don't get it. I will have to go through every object in the build, of course, and see what's going on.

This 4096 and its objects could go over because there is the second lot. The second lot didn't have as complex a build except for the big exposition hall.

[Prokofy Neva]

Also, I don't know what viewer you are using that accomplishes those kind of snapshots showing all the objects and their impacts, but then...you have to ask this.

If your viewer shows 419 objects with 1807 on a lot that holds only 937, (and could borrow them from the next lot over that took 1450 or so) them....

How come it says: "Land impact 2125" then on the menu.

That suggests there are ghost prims -- there were at least 145 on the other sim.

There's a difference of 318 between the two readings. How do you account for that? Where are they?

So 500 plus prims that don't exist might well put these parcels over in ways that I never saw before because...they weren't going over.

[Jadeclaw]

Ok, the viewer is Phoenix Firestorm 4.3.1.
To get that view, move your camera up, so that you look vertically down and have the whole thing on the screen. Rightclick one item and select Edit. Then draw a rectangle with the mouse until the whole thing lights up. Normally when I do that with my own stuff, I select 'Only Select my Objects' and draw a bigger rectangle, so I get everything. Since I don't own anything in Ross, I can't do that, so I must place the rectangle carefully to not to include stuff from other parcels.

However, I can not vouch for the accuracy of this accounting, as some objects (e.g. Linden plants) just don't get selected and counted (The server software do count them). Objects and parts hidden and or below the ground can be missed by this as well, so don't take my word as gospel, see it as a pointer, that something needs to be done in that area.

I guess, to get the prim count/LI down, a complete rebuild is in order, recreating the buildings and objects using more modern methods. And a look at the small things can be fruitful too, some of the small things have quite a LI-count.

I don't know, which viewer you are using, but I would be careful in older V1-viewers. I've had seen some strange numbers in the Build/Land-dialogs in the old Phoenix-viewer.

A final word: Don't get me wrong here, I'm not out to put you and your/Jessica's work down, the build and decoration is beautifully made, but sadly, with beauty comes LI. And the numbers given out do point to a problem LI-wise.

Anyway, I'm still not convinced, that the complaints are genuine. I have my own thoughts about these.

[Rex Cronon]

if I am not mistaken one sculptie now equals two prims. it is also possible that one mesh alone can equal tens of prims. increasing size of a mesh object increases its cost. total nr of objects and total number of objects in link-sets also affect cost(for all prims?). scripts also affect cost(not just for meshes it seems). physical attributes of each prim also contributes to cost.
how long will it take for particles to also add to the land impact?
p.s.
following page is quite informative, but it doesn't lack in complexity(which kind of makes it a "little" confusing. imo they need examples): http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Calculating-land-impact/ta-p/974163

[Prokofy Neva]

Thanks for that very helpful explanation, Jadeclaw. You said, "With beauty comes LI". But when that build was first made, it was kept low prim to enable more to be done with it -- it wasn't make hugely overprimmed with door handles and screws and all that kind of stuff people can put into, say, steampunk builds.

The "LI" of this "beauty" came *after* the fact -- *seven years* after the fact. And that was not supposed to happen -- the prims were supposed to be grandfathered and only mesh would be something that could be higher or lower depending on scripts in it and such.

Now we're seeing that's not true. And it's not surprising that it's not true, but it's having nasty consequences. Instead of a Linden coming angrily to someone who is a guest on their land in the first place, for legacy reasons, and angrily telling them their prims are way over and they are stopping boats, they should concede that the new reading system has messed up a big and beautiful build, and it will take time to fix.

Immediately compromises like just taking down 200 prims should have been enough. Instead, the demand was to remove 2000 as that was seemingly what was "over". Given that later, when the build was already half removed, this Linden then said, oh, go ahead, use up some of what's left, I've put the river in another group to ensure its prims" -- and the number "over" is in fact what's available -- one wonders why any of this was necessary -- but the problem is that putting the land in the other group would have forced back the entire build, so I was forced to remove half until the whole thing got sorted.

Anyway, no quick solutions here, and especially annoying is the idea that by clevering naming linked prims in linksets something else, I can reduce LI. That's the sort of thing I can't help thinking will be undone in another patch.

[Margotowej]

I still dont see how the new LI calculation could possibly have caused this situation, UNLESS there is mesh involved in the build ( but I understand the build is several years old). When no action is taken, the LI of a non-mesh object is still just its prim count.

Does the build contain any newer parts , that may either contain mesh, or complicated prims with a physical shape type that is NOT set to "prim"?